Newb Epic Destinies question

[Lurper]

Why would I want more than one epic destiny? If I understand what I've read, only one can be active. My character is a ranger-13/rogue-2/artificer-2 and there is really only one that looks good. I have that one maxed out but don't see any reason to go to another. Am I missing something?

[cave_diver]

deleted because caffeine didn't work

[Cardtrick]

You can have 1 active per destiny sphere, there are 4 spheres (divine, martial, arcane, primal) so you can have 4 (one from each) active at anyone time.

Well . . . this is just incredibly untrue. You can definitely only have one active destiny.

I have a feeling you're talking about epic past lives, though, in which case this would make more sense.

Why would I want more than one epic destiny? If I understand what I've read, only one can be active. My character is a ranger-13/rogue-2/artificer-2 and there is really only one that looks good. I have that one maxed out but don't see any reason to go to another. Am I missing something?

As you level up other destinies, you earn fate points. Fate points can be used to open up (or upgrade) Twist of Fate slots. You can then "twist" low level abilities from other destinies to use those specific abilities along with whatever your current primary destiny is. (You must have actually leveled the other destiny and invested ED points into the ability you want to twist, as well.)

So, for example, a lot of melees run in Legendary Dreadnaught but twist in the Rejuvenation Cocoon ability from Primal Avatar for self healing.

There's a quite useful and comprehensive article on the wiki that goes into all the details of how epic destinies work.

Also, for many builds, it's useful to have a couple of different primary destiny/twists setups for handling different content -- e.g., you might go survivability focused for EE raids or DPS focused for soloing EH quests for XP.

[cave_diver]

Well . . . this is just incredibly untrue. You can definitely only have one active destiny.

I have a feeling you're talking about epic past lives, though, in which case this would make more sense.

Dohh!, my bad, coffee didnt kick in

[unbongwah]

Two main reasons for leveling other EDs:

First, for every 3 ED levels you earn, you also earn a Fate point, which are used to unlock Twists of Fate. These let you add abilities from other EDs to your current active ED, in order to complement or improve your abilities. You can only Twist abilities from the ED tree (not the innates along the bottom); you can't Twist tier-5 or -6 abilities; and Twists become progressively more expensive. E.g., in your case, let's say you decide to make FotW your primary ED, but you want to improve your self-healing; so you decide to Twist in Rejuv Cocoon from Primal Avatar. The first Twist slot is only 1 Fate pt and Cocoon is a tier-1 ability, so that's an easy Twist to make. But then later you decide you want to Twist Imp Power Atk from LD while keeping Cocoon; since that's a tier-2 ability, you need to earn enough Fate pts to unlock one T2 Twist and one T1 Twist, which takes 5 Fate Pts (15 ED lvls total).

Second, you may wish to switch EDs based on what content or role you're running, since each ED has its own set of abilities. E.g., on my Dwarven Defender, I'm usually running in LD when I want to max out my DPS but in US when I'm tanking or want to improve my self-healing.

Unfortunately, leveling off-destinies can get very tedious, since you need a lot of XP to max them all out; and often you'll be leveling EDs which have zero synergy with your build, but you do it anyway for the Fate pts (or possibly specific Twists in that ED). Which is why you'll sometimes see LFMs which says things like "ED XP farm;" those folks are just trying to power-level their off-EDs ASAP.

[Cardtrick]

Unfortunately, leveling off-destinies can get very tedious, since you need a lot of XP to max them all out; and often you'll be leveling EDs which have zero synergy with your build, but you do it anyway for the Fate pts (or possibly specific Twists in that ED). Which is why you'll sometimes see LFMs which says things like "ED XP farm;" those folks are just trying to power-level their off-EDs ASAP.

As a side note for the OP, it's possible to mostly avoid this pain if you're also planning on doing many heroic TRs in different classes -- e.g., if you're going for Completionist. I've got a character that I'm (very) slowly working toward completionist on, and what I've been doing is playing in epics just long enough to unlock an adjacent destiny. (This doesn't take long at all.) Then I choose my next heroic life to complement that newly unlocked destiny, level the new build up to 20, and then stay in epics in the new destiny long enough to unlock another destiny -- then repeat with another build/destiny combination.

[Enoach]

Besides the Fate Points and twists, the other reason to activate and level EDs is that each character/build can benefit differently from each on.

Example: A ranger that likes to use their bow...

Shiradi Champion - While commonly used by casters, it has bow related enhancements that can help increase damage
Fury of the Wild - Rage Enhanced Bow Damage

A ranger that likes to TWF...

Legendary Dreadnaught - Damage enhancements as well as tactical
Fury of the Wild - Rage Enhancements for Melee damage
Primal Avatar - TWF enhancements

Other destinies might offer other enhancements that help build towards your personal play style or shore up a weakness in the build itself.

You can break EDs down to three categories
1) Optimal (any ED that makes your build shine)
2) Options (any ED that you can use to complete a specific task/role but is not necessarily optimal for your build)
3) Non-Synergy (any ED which provides nothing to your build while playing, and potentially makes your build weaker - this could still have useable Twists)

Depending on play style and build will determine where each of the current 11 EDs reside for you.

[unbongwah]

As a side note for the OP, it's possible to mostly avoid this pain if you're also planning on doing many heroic TRs in different classes -- e.g., if you're going for Completionist. I've got a character that I'm (very) slowly working toward completionist on, and what I've been doing is playing in epics just long enough to unlock an adjacent destiny. (This doesn't take long at all.) Then I choose my next heroic life to complement that newly unlocked destiny, level the new build up to 20, and then stay in epics in the new destiny long enough to unlock another destiny -- then repeat with another build/destiny combination.

Good point, but you've basically replaced the pain of ED leveling with the pain of TR grinding. Obviously, everyone has their own pain thresholds to consider...

[Cardtrick]

Good point, but you've basically replaced the pain of ED leveling with the pain of TR grinding. Obviously, everyone has their own pain thresholds to consider...

Haha, I enjoy heroic leveling. It's mostly why I play the game. I even love the XP-inefficient low level quests, with the over the top narrator and creative dungeon designs. I also like the feeling of my character getting incrementally more powerful.

I don't like leveling "off destinies," because it feels like I'm making my character weaker. I know that TRing is basically the same thing . . . but it feels different to me, since in my mind when I TR it's a whole new character that I get to level up and improve.

Anyway, you're totally right. Just because I find heroic leveling more fun than epic destiny grinding, doesn't mean everyone will.

[SirValentine]

...Non-Synergy (any ED which provides nothing to your build while playing, and potentially makes your build weaker - this could still have useable Twists)

Though certainly there are build/destiny combinations where the destiny provides very little extra to the build, can you give any example of where any ED actually makes any build WEAKER? I'm not seeing it.

[Enoach]

Though certainly there are build/destiny combinations where the destiny provides very little extra to the build, can you give any example of where any ED actually makes any build WEAKER? I'm not seeing it.

Sorry I used the wrong language - I meant it to say "Feels" weaker, more subjective and in comparison to running in a destiny one feels more works with the build. I'm a little embarrassed by my phrasing because I actually believe there is at least one destiny in each sphere that works with just about every build and that there are very few builds that cannot work well with any destiny if the player is willing to adjust their style.

[Lurper]

I maxed out Shiradi Champion because I felt that had the best perks. In looking at the others, I don't see anything that looks exciting. I primarily use a +7 Vorpal Heavy Repeating Crossbow and rarely melee. Are there destinies that have better ranged feats?
Is rage really a big help?
As an aside, once I am lvl 20 other than equipment and tomes is there a way to boost my spot? What about reincarnation?
Thanks

[Enoach]

The adrenaline abilities of Fury of the Wild add upwards of +400% damage, combine that with Improved Precise Shot and Manyshot and you have a lot of damage in one shot, especially if you have a lot of mobs in which to shoot at.

The main reason this is possible is because Adrenaline is an ability that you click but gives you a few seconds to use allowing it to stack with other abilities.

[Dimwhit1]

I was going to post something similar. I have a straight Monk. The Grandmaster of Flowers ED was a no-brainer. I'm working on maxing out Legendary Dreadnaught (mostly to have the second epic feat available at lvl 28). But the only ability there worth twisting to me is the +6 to DC for my stunning fist. From there, I haven't found anything else worth going for, though I do like the Rejuvenation Cocoon from the Primal Avatar ED. I may have to try to get that.

Anyone have another suggestion for ED abilities that might be worth it for a Monk?

[Cardtrick]

Anyone have another suggestion for ED abilities that might be worth it for a Monk?

Depends a lot on your build. If you're max-WIS, you might actually consider twisting in a DC-based SLA, like Soundburst from Exalted Angel or Tsunami from Primal Avatar.

Primal Scream is a nice ability for any melee.

If you're having trouble with saves or want/need more fortification, there are some great low level defensive options (particularly Unearthly Reactions from Magister and Brace for Impact from Unyielding Sentinel).

Cocoon, like you mentioned, is pretty much always the best first twist for a fleshy melee.

Acute Instincts from Fury of the Wild gives +2 Wisdom +6 to balance, heal, listen, spot, search, concentration and +3 to saves vs. traps -- all of which stack -- but only when you're affected by Rage. However, even the spell (or a potion, or Primal Scream) is sufficient to count.

EDIT: How on earth did I forget Sense Weakness? This is the absolute best answer. Great on any melee, but especially essential on a monk getting frequent stuns.

[Cardtrick]

As an aside, once I am lvl 20 other than equipment and tomes is there a way to boost my spot? What about reincarnation?
Thanks

Probably a bit too late for this to do you much good, but as I mentioned in the post just above this, you can get +6 to Spot and +2 to Wisdom (effectively +7 to Spot) by twisting in the tier 2 Fury of the Wild ability "Acute Instincts" and drinking a Rage potion.

Twisting in the Technician ability from Shadowdancer gives +6 to Search, Spot, Disable Device, Open Lock and flanking bonus to attack.

There's +1 from Skill Mastery in Shadowdancer.

You also get +1 to all skills for every epic level.

For reincarnation, there's a martial epic pastlife that gives +1 to all skills, but it's rarely worth taking, given the other options.

[unbongwah]

Anyone have another suggestion for ED abilities that might be worth it for a Monk?

Sense Weakness is a pretty common twist for melee builds for +30% dmg to helpless targets; its benefit is obvious if your Stunning Fist DCs are high enough.

[Dimwhit1]

Thanks for the suggestions! Sense weakness sounds great. But man, at Tier 4, it's going to take awhile to get enough Fate Points to twist it. It would be great, though. My stun DC is currently around 51, I think, so I succeed quite a bit.