comments on 6 rogue 6 monk 8 fighter quarterstaff

[garlor]

I actually have a halforc 18 ftr 2 monk who has some monk gear, thinking of LR +20 him into this build mainly because he already has 2-3 usable qstaffs and I basically have almost every other toon type

idea is to go with the enhancements from monk for qstaffs to tier 5, rogue the qstaff line and little more and fighter the kensei weapon line up to tier 3-4, str based since is horc

so any thoughts on if this is a good idea or somebody tried it and found it to be ****?

[CThruTheEgo]

Since you're LRing, you're stuck with at least one fighter, but I'm not sure if 8 fighter is really worth it. I don't think you'll be able to spend much in kensai. Enhancements are tight on a staff build. Plan those out first to see how much you actually have to invest in kensai. And you shouldn't really need the feats, so I probably wouldn't go more than 1 or 2 fighter, 4 at the most and only if you really need the extra feat. Also, if you want trap skills, you'll have a hard time keeping them maxed with so many fighter levels unless you invest heavily in int.

9 monk would get you evasion, 12 gets you wings. 10 rogue gets you a rogue feat (improved evasion or opportunist), and another at 13. Rogues get an additional sneak attack die at every odd level, so it's better to limit rogue to an odd number.

If you're not going dex based, you're evasion won't be very effective. So improved evasion will be a big boost to your defense.

I'd suggest the following splits depending on your goals and priorities:
13rogue/6monk/1fighter for improved evasion, opportunist, more sneak attack, and rogue skills.
12monk/7rogue/1fighter for improved evasion and wings.
10rogue/6monk/4fighter or 9monk/7rogue/4fighter or 9monk/9rogue/2fighter for improved evasion and extra feats.

Hope that helps.

[unbongwah]

Since you can't take both Keen Edge & Staff Spec, that precludes the main reason to go ftr 8. True, you can pick up the static dmg bonuses from Kensei, but honestly you're stretching your APs pretty thin at that point. Stopping at ftr 6 for defensive stance or going all the way to ftr 12 for Power Surge make most sense to me; or just do rog 13 monk 6 ftr 1.

[Toro12]

I'm with cthru on this one ,less fighter is probably the better option here.
If you were looking to be centered with anything that wasn't a monk weapon you want the fighter levels. But since your looking Qstick not so much.

13 rogue for opportunist , IEv & slippery/knockdown immunity would be a the strongest choice IMO.

[CThruTheEgo]

Stopping at ftr 6 for defensive stance...

Doesn't stalwart defender stance require using a shield? Or was that changed? I know the paladin stance doesn't require a shield, at least not for the first level of bonuses.

[Cardtrick]

Stopping at ftr 6 for defensive stance or going all the way to ftr 12 for Power Surge make most sense to me; or just do rog 13 monk 6 ftr 1.

I've tried to put together a good fighter 12+, monk 6+ staff build, and I have trouble finding something I'm happy with. Power Surge is nice, but I don't know that it's worth giving up so much.

It's partly that I can't deal with the longer cooldown on Quick Strike in Henshin and I want the increased attack speed from the thief acrobat tree, so I feel like any staff build wants at least 2 rogue levels and 12 APs into Thief Acrobat (technically, 11 APs into TA would be enough, but the best options are pretty clearly 1 core, 3 for tier 3 acrobatics (attack speed boost), 2 for tier 1 staff training, and 6 for tier 3 quick strike). Then if you want power surge you need a minimum of 21 APs in Kensai. You need at least 32 APs into Henshin for Staff Specialization (and then at that point, you almost certainly want at least one of the other tier 5 selections, since Henshin is so backloaded). And on a melee build with 6+ monk levels, not taking Shadow Veil from Ninja Spy just feels like deliberately gimping a build to me. Which leaves . . . basically nothing for utility, healing amp, or any kind of racial tree investment.

It's not terrible, but it feels like paying too much for Power Surge.

[CThruTheEgo]

I've tried to put together a good fighter 12+, monk 6+ staff build, and I have trouble finding something I'm happy with. Power Surge is nice, but I don't know that it's worth giving up so much.

I toyed around with a 12fighter/5rogue/3paladin build idea that could get an 85 trip DC and 73 stunning blow DC, without fighter past lives, but the sacrifices were too much. If I could have made it work I was going to call it The Timothy Leary - A Trip Master

[Cardtrick]

I toyed around with a 12fighter/5rogue/3paladin build idea that could get an 85 trip DC and 73 stunning blow DC, without fighter past lives, but the sacrifices were too much. If I could have made it work I was going to call it The Timothy Leary - A Trip Master

Haha, I love it. That's a split I didn't even really look at, although it's certainly another one that seems appealing on the surface.

[unbongwah]

Doesn't stalwart defender stance require using a shield?

Nope. The Gtr Stalwart / Sacred Defense bonuses (+CON/STR/HPs) require one, but the basic defensive stance (+PRR/saves/threat) works fine w/out shield. +25 PRR +3 saves for 11 APs is a pretty decent boost to survivability.

I've tried to put together a good fighter 12+, monk 6+ staff build, and I have trouble finding something I'm happy with. Power Surge is nice, but I don't know that it's worth giving up so much.

My idea was the same as yours: rog 2 / monk 6 / ftr 12. I think it might make sense if you want to focus on tactics DCs (Power Surge + Kensei enhs = +7 DCs, another +1 if you can afford STR +2 enhs); or if you need the extra feats from ftr to add, e.g., Manyshot+Bow STR. Otherwise I agree it seems too expensive. Plus with saves being so important in epics, any build w/out a pally splash for Div Grace is gimping itself on that front (and Div Might, ofc).

[CThruTheEgo]

Nope. The Gtr Stalwart / Sacred Defense bonuses (+CON/STR/HPs) require one, but the basic defensive stance (+PRR/saves/threat) works fine w/out shield. +25 PRR +3 saves for 11 APs is a pretty decent boost to survivability.

That's good to know. I always thought it was silly for it to require a shield.

My idea was the same as yours: rog 2 / monk 6 / ftr 12. I think it might make sense if you want to focus on tactics DCs (Power Surge + Kensei enhs = +7 DCs, another +1 if you can afford STR +2 enhs); or if you need the extra feats from ftr to add, e.g., Manyshot+Bow STR. Otherwise I agree it seems too expensive. Plus with saves being so important in epics, any build w/out a pally splash for Div Grace is gimping itself on that front (and Div Might, ofc).

Agreed. I'd only go for power surge if I was using tactics on a staff build. I wouldn't bother with it otherwise.

[Norbs]

Hi guys,

I was thinking of doing this kind of build (Q-staff monk / Thief / Fighter as Henshin + Ninja + Acrobat + Kensai) for my monk's fourth life.
I came to this build, before reading this thread ==>

What do you think of it ? Anything I should change ? Are glancing blows on Q-staff fixed now ?
(It is a dext-based build as I do not have Horc race, so I did not invest on tactical manoeuvers)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Thyram 4 
Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
(8 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 6 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 426
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 23
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    19
Dexterity            16                    30
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence         12                    15
Wisdom               10                    12
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               7                    35
Bluff                -1                     8
Concentration         3                    24
Diplomacy            -1                     8
Disable Device        5                    31
Haggle               -1                    10
Heal                  0                     9
Hide                  7                    22
Intimidate           -1                     8
Jump                  7                    41
Listen                0                    10
Move Silently         7                    33
Open Lock             7                    32
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                1                    10
Search                5                    33
Spellcraft            1                    10
Spot                  4                    24
Swim                  5                    14
Tumble                5                    26
Use Magic Device      3                    23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Mobility


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Dexterity


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: First Blood
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Spiritual Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strike With No Thought (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Martial Arts (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Stick Fighting (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Tumbler (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Thief Acrobatics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Quick Strike (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Improved Glancing Blows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Sweeping Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Lunge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Vault (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Clever Monkey (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Staff Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sting of the Ninja (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)

[Cardtrick]

(It is a dext-based build as I do not have Horc race, so I did not invest on tactical manoeuvers)

The decision to go Dex-based doesn't depend on having Horc race -- my preference for these builds is human strength based, since I value the extra feat extremely highly.

Are glancing blows on Q-staff fixed now ?

They seem to be. I can confirm I'm definitely getting glancing blows on cleaves and great cleaves using a staff, most of the time. There are occasional times I don't get them when I expect to, so I'm not totally sure I understand how it works. My original thought was that a cleave or great cleave resets your attack chain, so you should get glancing blows; but now I'm thinking that the attack chain break happens after the cleave, so you only get glancing blows on the cleave if you're at a point in the attack chain before the cleave where the next normal attack would have received them (first or fourth swing, or third with gTHF). I could be wrong, I haven't experimented much -- I definitely do get glancing blows on most cleaves, which is good enough for me.

What do you think of it ? Anything I should change ?

I'm not sure I see the point of taking that many fighter levels without investing in tactics at all. I'd probably go light rather than dark for the monk path, especially since you're not even investing in the dark enhancements -- some self healing would be good. I would definitely adjust the enhancements (tier 3 haste boost is a must, as is some human healing amp, as are Shadow Veil and Fists of Iron).

If you want to go with this class split and don't want to build for strength/tactics, I'd seriously consider using the fighter/monk bonus feats to get a ranged option -- you're low Wis, so 10k stars won't do much, but PBS/Zen Archery/Manyshot/Combat ARchery would still be extremely useful. Right now, a lot of your feats are going toward whirlwind and its prereqs and weapon focus/specialization (which usually aren't worth the feats if you don't need them as prereqs for something, and you don't have the spare APs to go far enough into Kensai to make them necessary)