Please change the phlogiston drop rates

[kierg10]

So I am trying to make a tier 3 quarterstaff, and gotta say the phlogiston drop rates are messed.

I'm okay with it taking quite a few runs to make an item, however......the only guaranteed way to be able to make an item is 60 runs of the raid (i.e., 3 end rewards), because the drop rate of phlogiston is not 100% in any circumstance.

I have done 5 EN runs of thunder peak so far and gotten ONE fire phlogiston. I need thirty.

My proposed solution:

ENorm: guaranteed 1, and only 1 drop. This way running on just epic norm it takes 20 runs and you will definitely be able to make an item (alter the drop rates of scales/ingots to match this rate)

EHard: 1-3 drop. this means on average you will be able to make an item after 15 runs (15x2 average=30), and also if you are really lucky you will get a bit sooner.

EElite: 3-5. so on average you will have enough after 8 runs (and seeing the completions that people have posted of this raid on EE, 8 is quite a lot of EE runs of this), which I think is deserved considering the considerable difficulty increase on epic elite.

I'm just feeling demoralized right now looking at the extreme grind required to make single item, and knowing I will probably have to get 60 completions to make just a single item.....

that is all, have a nice night.

[Trillea]

I'm just feeling demoralized right now looking at the extreme grind required to make single item, and knowing I will probably have to get 60 completions to make just a single item.....

60 runs to make a single item? This really is Greensteel 2.0 - LDS anyone?

[Singular]

Totally. The drop rates are messed up. I think your suggestion is a bit high, though. Phlogs should drop at the same rate comms do from FOT.

[kierg10]

Totally. The drop rates are messed up. I think your suggestion is a bit high, though. Phlogs should drop at the same rate comms do from FOT.

You never needed 30 comms to upgrade an item, it was around 15 I believe, so completely different situations........also from what I have heard/seen the new raids are harder than FOT on EE......

[maddmatt70]

So I am trying to make a tier 3 quarterstaff, and gotta say the phlogiston drop rates are messed.

I'm okay with it taking quite a few runs to make an item, however......the only guaranteed way to be able to make an item is 60 runs of the raid (i.e., 3 end rewards), because the drop rate of phlogiston is not 100% in any circumstance.

I have done 5 EN runs of thunder peak so far and gotten ONE fire phlogiston. I need thirty.

My proposed solution:

ENorm: guaranteed 1, and only 1 drop. This way running on just epic norm it takes 20 runs and you will definitely be able to make an item (alter the drop rates of scales/ingots to match this rate)

EHard: 1-3 drop. this means on average you will be able to make an item after 15 runs (15x2 average=30), and also if you are really lucky you will get a bit sooner.

EElite: 3-5. so on average you will have enough after 8 runs (and seeing the completions that people have posted of this raid on EE, 8 is quite a lot of EE runs of this), which I think is deserved considering the considerable difficulty increase on epic elite.

I'm just feeling demoralized right now looking at the extreme grind required to make single item, and knowing I will probably have to get 60 completions to make just a single item.....

that is all, have a nice night.

Just run EH. Every EH run I have gotten a phlogiston. The devs should not change a thing. I like it that there is a reason to run these on EH or EE for that matter.

[kierg10]

60 runs to make a single item? This really is Greensteel 2.0 - LDS anyone?

I don't know how it was originally, but back in 2010 making my first item took around 15 runs......

[Trillea]

I don't know how it was originally, but back in 2010 making my first item took around 15 runs......

If you got enough LDS to make a dual-shard upgrade in 15 runs, I wish I had your luck lol.

[Grizzt14]

Take it up with Dr.Octo, we're supposed to have worthwhile differences for the difficulties.

Source:

Scaling Treasure (Normal/Hard/Elite differences)
For Update 21, items will not be different based on the difficulty of the content run. You can consider this to be the default status for this year’s coming releases, but we are constantly reviewing the incentives for running different difficulties, and we’ll adjust our approach as needed. The difficulty incentives in U21 content rely on drop rates, and we are attempting to scale those so there is a real, worthwhile difference.

[AtomicMew]

Just run EH. Every EH run I have gotten a phlogiston. The devs should not change a thing. I like it that there is a reason to run these on EH or EE for that matter.

The EH run we just did was my first, so I don't know if that is a typical completion time or not, but it took 3 hours. So you'd need approx. 75 hours just to make one item. 75 hours = 3-5 epic past lives (without stones, depending on person of course). Is that really an acceptable time frame?

[maddmatt70]

The EH run we just did was my first, so I don't know if that is a typical completion time or not, but it took 3 hours. So you'd need approx. 75 hours just to make one item. 75 hours = 3-5 epic past lives (without stones, depending on person of course). Is that really an acceptable time frame?

Was a very odd run.. Think phylactery are bugged. Right EH more like 80 minutes. Eventually going to be 60 min.

[redspecter23]

This is a situation where the devs should at least give us some clue about what the droprates are supposed to be so we know whether it's bugged or not. Currently you have a chance at a single phlogiston on all difficulties. Always 0 or 1. It would be nice to know the percentage difference between normal, hard and elite. Is it always supposed to be 0 or 1? Or is that a bug? For named loot as well it would be nice to know what the drop rate is supposed to be. I recently completed my 14th run of the new raids (combined) and I've seen a grand total of 1 piece of raid loot drop in the end chest among all players and that was on normal. Are the named loot drop rates supposed to be in the single digit percentages?

In short

1. What is the drop rate and number of phlogiston supposed to be on each difficulty?
2. What is the drop rate of named loot supposed to be on each difficulty?

[kierg10]

If you got enough LDS to make a dual-shard upgrade in 15 runs, I wish I had your luck lol.

I traded for some of them, and guildies passed me a couple....

[kierg10]

and maddmatt, there is no guaranteed drop for eh/ee difficulty, I have heard quite a few people who ran the new raids on ee saying they did not get a phlogiston....

and my suggestion makes there an actual incentive to run ee/eh because I believe phlogiston drop rate is the same on all difficulties...

[Drwaz99]

I have run a bunch of EH's (probably close to 30 just on EH on 3 toons) and have been skunked on about half of them. If you going to compare them to Greensteel, just remember, all ing were unbound and trade-able, sell-able and you only need up to 5 shards for the highest tier GS.

And is 80 mins a serious average for a EH run for Thunder Peak? Because if it is, I am extremely fortunate with the people I run with. 30-40 mins tops on most if-not-all our EH runs. The EE runs I have done took about 80 mins for the super-rough ones.

Granted they aren't pugs but the few pugs I have been in have been less than an hour on EH.

Shadow Dragon raid is quicker (IMO) than the other one, as long as a couple know the mirrors.

I do agree DB - it needs to be bumped up. It's woefully low.

[tomtomtanker]

Just run EH. Every EH run I have gotten a phlogiston. The devs should not change a thing. I like it that there is a reason to run these on EH or EE for that matter.

And you are already playing with two, tier three weapons on Khyber? Wow! you must have played 24/7 the last ten days! nice work! your right the drop rate must be fine, except those dirty ranged builds shouldn't get any right?

[maddmatt70]

I have run a bunch of EH's (probably close to 30 just on EH on 3 toons) and have been skunked on about half of them. If you going to compare them to Greensteel, just remember, all ing were unbound and trade-able, sell-able and you only need up to 5 shards for the highest tier GS.

And is 80 mins a serious average for a EH run for Thunder Peak? Because if it is, I am extremely fortunate with the people I run with. 30-40 mins tops on most if-not-all our EH runs. The EE runs I have done took about 80 mins for the super-rough ones.

Granted they aren't pugs but the few pugs I have been in have been less than an hour on EH.

Shadow Dragon raid is quicker (IMO) than the other one, as long as a couple know the mirrors.

I do agree DB - it needs to be bumped up. It's woefully low.

I was talking about Temple of Deathwrym and yes I do pugs. That is what you have to do on Khyber is pug these raids. The phylacteries are just a killer with pugs. I send 8-9 people in the shadow side through the bubbles. First, having the pugs kill shadows, getting the pugs into the bubbles, then in the portals and finally successfully prepping a phylactery even if 2 of them are in a shadow portal without prematurely killing a phylactery, and then killing the phylacteries within 2 seconds or so of each other. Just an absolutely terrible mechanic. Generally have to do it 3 times because pugs can not do it. I warn them not to use shiradi procs, turn of their colors, etc. Really hate it. This is one of the most non pug friendly raid concepts ever made by DDO.

Yes, I have run this raid close to 15 times already. I just got skunked for the first time on EH. I was just saying a like that you can get more phlogen then EN - i am tired of EN getting so much encouragement.

[tomtomtanker]

I was talking about Temple of Deathwrym and yes I do pugs. That is what you have to do on Khyber is pug these raids. The phylacteries are just a killer with pugs. I send 8-9 people in the shadow side through the bubbles. First, having the pugs kill shadows, getting the pugs into the bubbles, then in the portals and finally successfully prepping a phylactery even if 2 of them are in a shadow portal without prematurely killing a phylactery, and then killing the phylacteries within 2 seconds or so of each other. Just an absolutely terrible mechanic. Generally have to do it 3 times because pugs can not do it. I warn them not to use shiradi procs, turn of their colors, etc. Really hate it. This is one of the most non pug friendly raid concepts ever made by DDO.

Yes, I have run this raid close to 15 times already. I just got skunked for the first time on EH. I was just saying a like that you can get more phlogen then EN - i am tired of EN getting so much encouragement.

Wow! and I guess everyone on those raids gave you their Phlogiston rewards, that was really nice of them! but I'm sure they wanted you to be able to upgrade your two thunder puppies by last Wednesday as much as you did. Well done!

So see everyone? no problem with the drop rate! especially if you have already fully upgraded items in week two!

[slarden]

I think they should have a 2nd cost option of 20 shadow dragon souls and 10 fire dragon souls instead of 30 shadow dragon souls. The 30 soul option should also remain.
There should be a reason to run both raids.

The fire dragon drop rates are probably ok. The shadow dragon drop rates should be doubled since the raid takes longer (3x or so)

[Ilindith]

EH certainly isn't better for me, 6 EH runs, 3 EN runs. 0 from EH, 2 from EN.

28 to go.

[phalaeo]

I'm ok with the drop rate, I just think they should reduce the requirements for crafting. Yes, it should take time, but consider that a lot of us are making for dual wielders on several characters. I can't think of the last time I've had to run a raid 60-80+ times to get an item, except maybe SoS/ESoS seals/shards/scroll/item.