Player Character Balance

[pHo3nix]

that's what works best for me, but anybody can do it anyway they want. like I said before, if you don't have a decent heal amp, you wont get help from others or you will hear complaints for being a manna drain.

Mana drain is someone that needs many heals to be kept alive; BF/WF usually keep themselves alive, just need heals in emergencies and for those times your HA doesn't matter much as long as you can survive till you can reconstruct yourself.

When i play BF/WF i always tell people trying to heal me that they should save their SP for better uses unless they see me stunned/knocked down.

[zwiebelring]

Î don't get the Reconstruct hate right now. Juggernaut melees were prevalent before this race hit live and these builds were centered as well, had same defenses available and could buff the whole group with arti buffs where BF melees are mores elfish.

They cater the current *i must be able to solo everything* attitude, nothing else. But even this was able to do with WF melee arti. The reconstruct sla is by far the smallest concern. It is not the classes/races fault if endgame players tend to look just on powercreep and therefor build the mechanically ideal character, which happens to have a certain multiclass order + destiny etc.

[Bargol]

of course more is better. I love when divines test my heal amp and link it in party chat and say they are focusing their heals on me. the only reason why people don't really play Warforged melees is because of the penalty to heal amp, which really isn't a lot. its like some people would say Drow was a bad race to play because they start with a -2 to con. pretty silly. Warforged at one time was considered THE preferred melee race. how many races have heal amp in the tree? I believe its just 2. no complaints about the other races, but somehow Human is superior to other races just because of heal amp? that would sound OP to me than, but it cant be if the other races are being played and no one is complaining there is no heal amp in the racial trees. heal amp can be improved and no, WF/BF wont have as good as a fleshy, but it doesn't mean their heal amp actually sucks. its a player choice or lack of knowledge about the importance of heal amp that makes their heal amp so bad.

So apparently this is 2009 and we are running shroud?

In the landscape of todays game either you are fleshie with as high heal amp as you can get or BF/WF and heal yourself (with emergency heals from party members if needed).

Brag about your BF/WF heal amp but most decent players/healers will laugh. As a BF/WF with heavy investment in heal amp you can get mediocre healing compared to all non-WF races.

Changing anything with bladeforge (nerfing) makes the race not worth any of its other perks.

I TRed one of my toons into a bladeforge recently and have been playing him in epics and the perks are ok, but really if it wasn't for the self recon human would be a much better option. Honestly I have been thinking about TRing back into a human or half-elf because of how not over powered the bladeforge race is compared to other races.....even with the self healing.

...and yes the drow race is a bad race compared to the other options we currently have. Just because you like flavor or lore doesn't mean the rest of us should have to deal with it.

[Qhualor]

Mana drain is someone that needs many heals to be kept alive; BF/WF usually keep themselves alive, just need heals in emergencies and for those times your HA doesn't matter much as long as you can survive till you can reconstruct yourself.

When i play BF/WF i always tell people trying to heal me that they should save their SP for better uses unless they see me stunned/knocked down.

of course heal amp matters. im seeing more and more complaints about BF heal amp sucking and players not liking to throw them a heal. people are going to be more reluctant to throw more than 1 heal on you if they see that they hit you for a low amount or some will even ask you if you know about the importance of heal amp like you are a new player. if you are a good enough player to be self sufficient in every quest and you tell everyone in the group not to bother with helping you out as needed, than theres not much of a problem there. but lets be a little more realistic. the average BF melee player isn't always going to not need assistance.

rationalizing that BF melees don't need to invest in heal amp is exactly the kind of false information that does not need to spread around the game. I just hope that some people are able to see through the bull**** and build smarter. people say the devs are disconnected from the game. its no wonder when they read this kind of bull.

[Bargol]

that's what works best for me, but anybody can do it anyway they want. like I said before, if you don't have a decent heal amp, you wont get help from others or you will hear complaints for being a manna drain.

If someone complains about your heal amp because they had to give you one emergency heal in a quest then something other then build or gear is wrong. My BF has no investment in heal amp....zero.

I run in groups and have never had anyone say anything bad about my amp....in fact I get the occasional helpful heal but everyone knows I will not only be taking care of myself but throwing heal scrolls on others to help them out.....but yeah I guess I suck at team play.

[Qhualor]

So apparently this is 2009 and we are running shroud?

In the landscape of todays game either you are fleshie with as high heal amp as you can get or BF/WF and heal yourself (with emergency heals from party members if needed).

Brag about your BF/WF heal amp but most decent players/healers will laugh. As a BF/WF with heavy investment in heal amp you can get mediocre healing compared to all non-WF races.

Changing anything with bladeforge (nerfing) makes the race not worth any of its other perks.

I TRed one of my toons into a bladeforge recently and have been playing him in epics and the perks are ok, but really if it wasn't for the self recon human would be a much better option. Honestly I have been thinking about TRing back into a human or half-elf because of how not over powered the bladeforge race is compared to other races.....even with the self healing.

...and yes the drow race is a bad race compared to the other options we currently have. Just because you like flavor or lore doesn't mean the rest of us should have to deal with it.

actually I wasn't bragging and I wasn't referring to my BF TR. I was actually referring to my barb.

what changes are the devs making? the answer is, we don't know when and if at all. they only said they would look into reconstruct. for all we know it could be a minor nerf or it could be a boost. too many people running around with their heads chopped off without any information yet.

im assuming the reference to 2009 is role playing? again, quote me where I said that.

[Qhualor]

If someone complains about your heal amp because they had to give you one emergency heal in a quest then something other then build or gear is wrong. My BF has no investment in heal amp....zero.

I run in groups and have never had anyone say anything bad about my amp....in fact I get the occasional helpful heal but everyone knows I will not only be taking care of myself but throwing heal scrolls on others to help them out.....but yeah I guess I suck at team play.

I suppose you think fortification isn't important too because you are not going to toe to toe with mobs? zero heal amp = no heals from anyone. you must be an anomaly because im seeing the complete opposite in game.

[pHo3nix]

if you are a good enough player to be self sufficient in every quest and you tell everyone in the group not to bother with helping you out as needed, than theres not much of a problem there. but lets be a little more realistic. the average BF melee player isn't always going to not need assistance.

Then the average BF melee player has to learn to keep himself alive and play better or just TR to a fleshie: expecting everything to be based on mediocre players is what is getting the game dumbed down every update.

rationalizing that BF melees don't need to invest in heal amp is exactly the kind of false information that does not need to spread around the game. I just hope that some people are able to see through the bull**** and build smarter. people say the devs are disconnected from the game. its no wonder when they read this kind of bull.

Building for something you need 0.1% of the times at the expense of something you need 99,9% of the times doesn't seem smart.

[Bargol]

I suppose you think fortification isn't important too because you are not going to toe to toe with mobs? zero heal amp = no heals from anyone. you must be an anomaly because im seeing the complete opposite in game.

Oh you're trying to be funny....how cute.

On a fleshie zero heal amp means death...very true. On a WF non caster (which would be stupid) yep...no heals for you. However, on a bladforge that will taking care of their own heals will always get the emergency heal they need. If they don't then the problem isn't with the build its the noobie people they are running with.....any investment on a (self healing) bladgeforge in heal amp is a waste of AP and most decent players know this.

[Qhualor]

Oh you're trying to be funny....how cute.

On a fleshie zero heal amp means death...very true. On a WF non caster (which would be stupid) yep...no heals for you. However, on a bladforge that will taking care of their own heals will always get the emergency heal they need. If they don't then the problem isn't with the build its the noobie people they are running with.....any investment on a (self healing) bladgeforge in heal amp is a waste of AP and most decent players know this.

oh man. more wise words lol. its the other players fault because they wont throw a heal to a zero heal amp BF? as ive pointed out, you can still max out Healers Friend and still have very good reconstruct. of course you could get more if you take Mechanist, but you dont need to if you know how to play and build.

[Bargol]

actually I wasn't bragging and I wasn't referring to my BF TR. I was actually referring to my barb.

what changes are the devs making? the answer is, we don't know when and if at all. they only said they would look into reconstruct. for all we know it could be a minor nerf or it could be a boost. too many people running around with their heads chopped off without any information yet.

im assuming the reference to 2009 is role playing? again, quote me where I said that.

A dev gave a nerf list. In the coming months you can expect everything on the list to be nerfed unless the devs have some good arguments not to nerf. There are many people, like yourself, that are claiming the bladeforge recon is to overpowered. The rest of us are providing arguments why its not overpowered and/or why it should not be nerfed. In some of your more recent posts you now seem to realize its not overpowered on a melee, well I also put forth its not overpowered on an arcane.....unless they are running shiradi. So the problem isn't the bladgeforge race its the shiradi destiny, with a giant blue bar that makes it overpowered.

Turbine has a history of nerfing with a sledge hammer. If you are so naive to think this list is not going to lead to nerfs then I have a bridge to sell you in the marketplace.

[Bargol]

oh man. more wise words lol. its the other players fault because they wont throw a heal to a zero heal amp BF? as ive pointed out, you can still max out Healers Friend and still have very good reconstruct. of course you could get more if you take Mechanist, but you dont need to if you know how to play and build.

A properly built well played bladeforge shouldn't ever need any heals period....just like a palemaster. If you can't play one of these without others healing you....maybe that is the issue?

A rare emergency heal is just that. Anyone building for that is wasting AP. You are better off maxing out repair then healers friend / heal amp. Unless of course you think people like cetus (one of the more popular bladeforge builds) is a bad player and bad at building toons?

[Qhualor]

A dev gave a nerf list. In the coming months you can expect everything on the list to be nerfed unless the devs have some good arguments not to nerf. There are many people, like yourself, that are claiming the bladeforge recon is to overpowered. The rest of us are providing arguments why its not overpowered and/or why it should not be nerfed. In some of your more recent posts you now seem to realize its not overpowered on a melee, well I also put forth its not overpowered on an arcane.....unless they are running shiradi. So the problem isn't the bladgeforge race its the shiradi destiny, with a giant blue bar that makes it overpowered.

Turbine has a history of nerfing with a sledge hammer. If you are so naive to think this list is not going to lead to nerfs then I have a bridge to sell you in the marketplace.

this is what Varg actually said

What’s specific items do players consider overpowered?
Major caveat: Anything considered overpowered by some is also loved by others. We’re aware of this. Anything on this list is also NOT automatically going to be nerfed or changed in any particular way, but these are things we may take a closer look at. There’s quite a few other possibilities we might look at, but these were near the top of the list for discussions.
• Ranged Fury of the Wild
• Monks using 10K Stars and manyshot (monkchers)
• Bladeforged Reconstruct

notice the important part where he says "Anything on this list is also NOT automatically going to be nerfed or changed in any particular way, but these are things we may take a closer look at." when the day comes they talk about it than we can cry nerf.

quote me where I said I think reconstruct is OP. what I actually have said is that it is NOT OP for melees, but maybe or maybe not for caster builds. before trying to argue your point and say im wrong about something, please get the facts straight first.

[Bargol]

this is what Varg actually said

What’s specific items do players consider overpowered?
Major caveat: Anything considered overpowered by some is also loved by others. We’re aware of this. Anything on this list is also NOT automatically going to be nerfed or changed in any particular way, but these are things we may take a closer look at. There’s quite a few other possibilities we might look at, but these were near the top of the list for discussions.
• Ranged Fury of the Wild
• Monks using 10K Stars and manyshot (monkchers)
• Bladeforged Reconstruct

notice the important part where he says "Anything on this list is also NOT automatically going to be nerfed or changed in any particular way, but these are things we may take a closer look at." when the day comes they talk about it than we can cry nerf.

quote me where I said I think reconstruct is OP. what I actually have said is that it is NOT OP for melees, but maybe or maybe not for caster builds. before trying to argue your point and say im wrong about something, please get the facts straight first.

How long have you played the game? Pretty much anything that is discussed as being OP is nerfed. Also read the wording....the dev is saying maybe it will maybe it won't. Then tab over to the other discussions on this forum with many people complaining about monkchers, ranged fury, and bladeforge reconstruct.

[Bargol]

I think reconstruct is OP for caster builds......

Went back a couple pages and found this. To lazy to sift through everything to find more.

[Qhualor]

How long have you played the game? Pretty much anything that is discussed as being OP is nerfed. Also read the wording....the dev is saying maybe it will maybe it won't. Then tab over to the other discussions on this forum with many people complaining about monkchers, ranged fury, and bladeforge reconstruct.

it may or may not, we dont know anything yet. what I do know is that people are jumping to conclusions without any information yet.

[HungarianRhapsody]

it may or may not, we dont know anything yet. what I do know is that people are jumping to conclusions without any information yet.

No. People are jumping to conclusions based on Turbine's long and not-at-all-varied history of nerfing. We have quite a lot of information. Past performance is not a guarantee of the future, but it certainly is a strong indication.

[Ungood]

anyone but me rather bemused that the thought process is to nerf BF as opposed to buffing other melee options to make them equally viable?

[pHo3nix]

If people think that BF recon is OP on BF casters the solution is quite simple and it leave BF melees untouched: just make the Recon SLA share the same cooldown of the spell, so people can choose to get the SLA or the spell, but taking both at the same time would be useless.

[Qhualor]

No. People are jumping to conclusions based on Turbine's long and not-at-all-varied history of nerfing. We have quite a lot of information. Past performance is not a guarantee of the future, but it certainly is a strong indication.

yes, its amazing how people remember the bad stuff and none of the good stuff because the devs have never done anything positive for DDO. nerfs aren't always a bad thing. sometimes its good for the overall game, but people have a hard time looking at things objectively.