Player Character Balance

[Cardtrick]

Hey, they make outstanding mules. Being level 15, and self-healing, they have no problems running low level content to get favor for the free bags/bank slots. That's what my, and most of my guildies' use BF for. Of course, we all got them with the Shadowfail preorder, so we didn't buy them outright. I did buy the Cleric one though, since that gives my guild an extra healer at that level range.

Bladeforged make great challenge farmers, too! 1 paladin level, then 14 sorcerer levels for delayed blast fireball. Either run it like that or take 1 more paladin level for divine grace and sit at level 16 indefinitely. Big boost to challenge rewards when running at level 20. Requires virtually no gear -- tier 1 cloak of flames and rock boots from the same challenges and a decent thaumaturgy staff and you're ready to go.

But . . . I doubt anyone spent the money just to have an easy way to make a challenge farmer.

[ishr]

nerf shiradi.

nerfing sorcs is not the solution, people who are crying about sorcs being op dont realize its the shiradi part thats op, not the sorc part. magister and draconic sorcs suck.

[Cardtrick]

nerf shiradi.

nerfing sorcs is not the solution, people who are crying about sorcs being op dont realize its the shiradi part thats op, not the sorc part. magister and draconic sorcs suck.

Haha, this from the guy with the speed challenge thread. I'm probably failing a sarcasm check, but come on -- draconic sorcerers are awesome.

[knockcocker]

Warforged is a weak tree for a melee. Or, more correctly, it's not a strong enough tree to make up for the inherent disadvantages of the class.

150% healing amp is the least I'll ever consider running with if I can't self heal well, and 200% is really the minimum it takes for me to be content. More is better. Hitting those targets on a warforged or bladeforged is extremely difficult, requiring major gear investment and maxed out Healer's Friend, along with probably paladin past lives and class enhancements. Doing it on a human is pretty easy. That alone means that I would never consider a warforged melee (or a bladeforged if Reconstruct is changed).

Precisely. BF start with even lower base healing amp than WF.

[elvesunited]

If someone has the time and inclination then by all means true resurrect and get those past life feats for a small power boost. But I really don't like the idea that a past life feat is a basic requirement of a build concept in order for that build to be competitive in Epic Elite.

[Standal]

I disagree. I have had no complaints from others with my Healers Friend maxxed out. the complaints I have heard about are BF that don't invest in it. I am also doing 3x Paladin lives for the extra 15% and only have 1x past life so far. my positive healing will never be as good as a fleshy can be, but certainly not so bad. if BF players want to improve their positive heal amp and not be a burden when others try to heal them, than they should be investing in Healers Friend and Paladin past lives are a good incentive. if that BF tree is only good because of the reconstruct, than its a weak race. I don't see it that way at all. since the Warforged tree is almost the same, that would mean that tree is also weak. I don't see it that way at all either. investment in heal amp has always been a priority in this game. its a poor player choice if they don't want to do any of that just for maxxed out benefits from reconstruct.

as ive said from the beginning, reconstruct doesn't need to be nerfed in any way for melees. maybe for caster builds so when/if the devs do make a change, they need to take that into consideration.

Bladeforged die as a melee race if reconstruct is nerfed. You may not get complaints because you've got a lot of investment in heal amp. I do also. When/if I go bladeforged melee, that all goes out the window. I will be expecting to do all of my own major healing. All I want from a party healer is a little pick me up if I'm dead or incap. That's because I will have maxed my self healing via reconstruct. If reconstruct is nerfed, I will go back to the human versions of the build that have max heal amp available and use cocoon. You make a trade off between reconstruct as a bladeforged versus heal amp as a human. It should be the most powerful melee self healing in the game, because you pretty much give up the ability to have any healing focused characters heal you.

Caster builds don't play in this discussion. They have reconstruct from the spell. They get a discount with the SLA, not a new ability. It's a matter of degree that's insignificant.

[SirValentine]

nerf shiradi.

Buff Shiradi. It will need it, if you address a more fundamental issue:

Nerf multiproccing. 1 spell, 1 proc chance. Not just Shiridi procs, but everywhere anything can proc from a spell.

It's just stupid that level 1 Magic Missle gets 5x the proc chances of level 8 Polar Ray.

[Qhualor]

Bladeforged die as a melee race if reconstruct is nerfed. You may not get complaints because you've got a lot of investment in heal amp. I do also. When/if I go bladeforged melee, that all goes out the window. I will be expecting to do all of my own major healing. All I want from a party healer is a little pick me up if I'm dead or incap. That's because I will have maxed my self healing via reconstruct. If reconstruct is nerfed, I will go back to the human versions of the build that have max heal amp available and use cocoon. You make a trade off between reconstruct as a bladeforged versus heal amp as a human. It should be the most powerful melee self healing in the game, because you pretty much give up the ability to have any healing focused characters heal you.

Caster builds don't play in this discussion. They have reconstruct from the spell. They get a discount with the SLA, not a new ability. It's a matter of degree that's insignificant.

you know what happens when you don't invest in any heal amp? you don't get a 2nd heal. after the first one, the divine says "screw this. im not wasting my sp on a manna sponge". than I guess you will be glad you gave up on heal amp so you could repair yourself a little better and only have to worry about yourself while the divine is helping the rest of the party. I have Healers Friend maxxed out, plus im focused on KOTC so I have heal amp maxxed out in the tree too. I believe in teamwork and if I want some help when I need it, than it would be nice if someone is willing to help me. not say "on your own bud. you are the one that wanted to be a drain."

[HungarianRhapsody]

you know what happens when you don't invest in any heal amp? you don't get a 2nd heal. after the first one, the divine says "screw this. im not wasting my sp on a manna sponge". than I guess you will be glad you gave up on heal amp so you could repair yourself a little better and only have to worry about yourself while the divine is helping the rest of the party. I have Healers Friend maxxed out, plus im focused on KOTC so I have heal amp maxxed out in the tree too. I believe in teamwork and if I want some help when I need it, than it would be nice if someone is willing to help me. not say "on your own bud. you are the one that wanted to be a drain."

If you don't have Reconstruct, then the best, quickest, most effective thing you can do to improve your healing amp is *not be warforged/bladeforged*. That's kind of the whole point of this part of the discussion.

[Qhualor]

Warforged is a weak tree for a melee. Or, more correctly, it's not a strong enough tree to make up for the inherent disadvantages of the class.

150% healing amp is the least I'll ever consider running with if I can't self heal well, and 200% is really the minimum it takes for me to be content. More is better. Hitting those targets on a warforged or bladeforged is extremely difficult, requiring major gear investment and maxed out Healer's Friend, along with probably paladin past lives and class enhancements. Doing it on a human is pretty easy. That alone means that I would never consider a warforged melee (or a bladeforged if Reconstruct is changed).

of course more is better. I love when divines test my heal amp and link it in party chat and say they are focusing their heals on me. the only reason why people don't really play Warforged melees is because of the penalty to heal amp, which really isn't a lot. its like some people would say Drow was a bad race to play because they start with a -2 to con. pretty silly. Warforged at one time was considered THE preferred melee race. how many races have heal amp in the tree? I believe its just 2. no complaints about the other races, but somehow Human is superior to other races just because of heal amp? that would sound OP to me than, but it cant be if the other races are being played and no one is complaining there is no heal amp in the racial trees. heal amp can be improved and no, WF/BF wont have as good as a fleshy, but it doesn't mean their heal amp actually sucks. its a player choice or lack of knowledge about the importance of heal amp that makes their heal amp so bad.

[Qhualor]

If you don't have Reconstruct, then the best, quickest, most effective thing you can do to improve your healing amp is *not be warforged/bladeforged*. That's kind of the whole point of this part of the discussion.

see post above.

[maddmatt70]

By the way Troll a pure ranger gets about 5 (7%) more shots per minute then a monkcher irregardless of any other factors. Test it out. Just shoot at a target with a pure ranger archer and a monkcher without any alacrity, doubleshot, 10k stars, or manyshot.

[Ancient]

you know what happens when you don't invest in any heal amp? you don't get a 2nd heal. after the first one, the divine says "screw this. im not wasting my sp on a manna sponge". than I guess you will be glad you gave up on heal amp so you could repair yourself a little better and only have to worry about yourself while the divine is helping the rest of the party. I have Healers Friend maxxed out, plus im focused on KOTC so I have heal amp maxxed out in the tree too. I believe in teamwork and if I want some help when I need it, than it would be nice if someone is willing to help me. not say "on your own bud. you are the one that wanted to be a drain."

If you have reconstruct then the healer should only have to worry about you in an emergency. If your version of teamwork involves either constant emergencies, or a healer who is worried about heal amp in an emergency... then your version of teamwork is pretty lousy.

[knockcocker]

You make a trade off between reconstruct as a bladeforged versus heal amp as a human. It should be the most powerful melee self healing in the game, because you pretty much give up the ability to have any healing focused characters heal you.

This.

For people who persist in insisting this is not a problem, please list your BF build and it's healing amp. Thanks.

[Standal]

see post above.

I imagine he did see your above post. Just because you post something doesn't make it gospel. The single biggest thing you can do in game to improve your heal amp is not be bf, followed closely by not being wf. You can crow about how your heal amp is better than everybody you run with, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not as good as my 30% PDK amped, 30/20/10 gear amped centered kensei with a pally past life. I'm most certainly not going to burden my party with a low heal amp BF melee with no effective self healing option when I can just take the repair amp enhancements and reconstruct.

[Qhualor]

If you have reconstruct then the healer should only have to worry about you in an emergency. If your version of teamwork involves either constant emergencies, or a healer who is worried about heal amp in an emergency... then your version of teamwork is pretty lousy.

if your vision of teamwork is being a manna drain than your vision is pretty lousy.

[Qhualor]

I imagine he did see your above post. Just because you post something doesn't make it gospel. The single biggest thing you can do in game to improve your heal amp is not be bf, followed closely by not being wf. You can crow about how your heal amp is better than everybody you run with, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's not as good as my 30% PDK amped, 30/20/10 gear amped centered kensei with a pally past life. I'm most certainly not going to burden my party with a low heal amp BF melee with no effective self healing option when I can just take the repair amp enhancements and reconstruct.

of course not and neither is yours. its all opinion.

its true if you want max heal amp than go Human and not BF, but its also fact that just because you are BF doesn't mean your heal amp must suck.

im not crowing anything. just saying if you want someone to help you out with a heal than have some heal amp. if not, than don't complain or get mad at them because they will take the -10% over wasting their manna. you know, sacrifice a little power for a little power somewhere else.

[HatsuharuZ]

The one thing I've noticed about most of the warforged and bladeforged characters I've run with on Orien is that they all build to self-heal with repair spells and effects. Well, there was this one warforged barbarian I met while doing House P epics, but that's the only "non-self-healing" warforged that I've met ever. Taking any of that away is a bad idea, I think.

That said, if the reconstruct SLA is a problem, then just increase the cooldown a bit. People won't like it, but there are other things they can use besides that one SLA.

[Ancient]

if your vision of teamwork is being a manna drain than your vision is pretty lousy.

How is taking care of your own health other than a rare emergency a mana drain?

My main toon has a healing amp of zero... I'm a palemaster and I'm shocked if I ever get a heal. Newsflash, I'm still a team player.

[Qhualor]

How is taking care of your own health other than a rare emergency a mana drain?

My main toon has a healing amp of zero... I'm a palemaster and I'm shocked if I ever get a heal. Newsflash, I'm still a team player.

there is nothing wrong with taking care of your own health. my argument was about melee BF, not casters. WF/BF casters are expected to take care of themselves.