Player Character Balance

[Thrudh]

YES . . . the 6 second SLA IS game-breaking . . . but without it BF is garbage. You can't really balance this, it's either OP or ****. That's why I'm saying njerf it and give us a refund and LR+20 hearts with race-change.

How about 7 seconds? That make BF completely worthless? How about 8 seconds?

[Eth]

How about 7 seconds? That make BF completely worthless? How about 8 seconds?

This.
You can easily balance it by cooldown adjustment.

Alternative: Make the caster level not dependant on character level but on ....PALADIN levels

[Eth]

...or they could balance it by making positive energy self-healing more attractive.
Like - giving us some more healing amp options on items.

Right now we have 2 mediocre pairs of gloves, grandfathered bracers, dragontouched armor and some minor stuff usually not worth the slot.

Running around with a lvl 16 dragontouched robe in a lvl 32 raid...

[knockcocker]

I see their point too...but the logic is false. Everyone has content that they paid for affected at some time or other. The fact of their having paid for Bladeforged does not make the Bladeforged something untouchable. If we followed that logic, nothing in the game could be changed...ViP players pay for ALL of the content every month.

I don't think it's the same at all. You pay a VIP subscription for access to the game. If the content of the game
changes beyond what you are prepared to tolerate you have the option to cancel your subscription. This does not
invalidate the previous subscription fees you paid as you had access to the game as you desired it.

Bladeforged were advertised as a race with certain characteristics which you purchased for a flat, non-refundable
fee. i.e. not a subscription or 'lease' of the product. To retroactively change those abilities is a clear case of
bait and switch in my view - after all, why wait until now?

If they change this I will petitioning for a return of the purchase fee via the BBB. I feel the same sympathy for
those who actually purchased Warforged and the Cannith Challenge Pack.

[pHo3nix]

I don't think it's the same at all. You pay a VIP subscription for access to the game. If the content of the game
changes beyond what you are prepared to tolerate you have the option to cancel your subscription. This does not
invalidate the previous subscription fees you paid as you had access to the game as you desired it.

Bladeforged were advertised as a race with certain characteristics which you purchased for a flat, non-refundable
fee. i.e. not a subscription or 'lease' of the product. To retroactively change those abilities is a clear case of
bait and switch in my view - after all, why wait until now?

If they change this I will petitioning for a return of the purchase fee via the BBB. I feel the same sympathy for
those who actually purchased Warforged and the Cannith Challenge Pack.

^This.

Consider that you can still get favor/xp from nerfed packs, so while that's annoying you still got something. You couldn't get anything from a BF without reconstruct: all their other perks are indeed nice, but once BF can't self-heal reliably anymore (in EE) the race will become basically useless. After all, just look at what the current state of barbarians is: they should be the best DPS in the game, yet for most people that got their barbarian PL they could as well remove the class cause being the best DPS(if they really are) but needing a nannybot for anything isn't just worth it. Soulstones are 0 DPS

[Pandir]

I don't think it's the same at all. You pay a VIP subscription for access to the game. If the content of the game
changes beyond what you are prepared to tolerate you have the option to cancel your subscription. This does not
invalidate the previous subscription fees you paid as you had access to the game as you desired it.

Bladeforged were advertised as a race with certain characteristics which you purchased for a flat, non-refundable
fee. i.e. not a subscription or 'lease' of the product. To retroactively change those abilities is a clear case of
bait and switch in my view - after all, why wait until now?

If they change this I will petitioning for a return of the purchase fee via the BBB. I feel the same sympathy for
those who actually purchased Warforged and the Cannith Challenge Pack.

IMO it's silly to think just because a class/race is purchased they should be forever set and never subject to changes, or that you should be eligible for a refund if they do.
Online games that want to keep a modicum of balance can't really work with a premise like that.

[Ivan_Milic]

Obvious liar.


Obvious liar.

****, you caught me, ac is useless and it needs to get buffed.

[Bargol]

I can't agree with this. As a VIP I could say the same exact thing about every class. I've invested real money making my characters powerful and than over the years watch them get nerfed in some form or fashion. Same with any loot that I've seen get nerfed and become useless.

There is lots of confusion with reconstruct and people are generalizing when they should be more specific. Reconstruct for melees doesn't need to be changed. Reconstruct for casters, maybe or maybe not. I can't comment on that since I don't play them, but what from what I have heard and read it does seem OP. The name of the thread is character balance and if that means a pay for class gets nocjed down a notch to be more in line with other classes than that's a good thing in my book, not a bad thing. I really can't stand entitlement issues when DDO has been constantly changing since the beginning and we all know this.

How many races have had their core abilities nerfed to uselessness? None

If you nerf the bladeforge recon they become useless. Then while your at it you might as well nerf cocoon and remove heal scrolls from the game.

Then you will have nerfed any class / multiclass combo running at endgame who doesn't have spell heals. I guess this is a way for all the pure rangers and paladins to feel powerful again.

Even better remove any cure spells from the game.....and talk about OP healing a pure pallies lay on hands what 14 of them...and they regenerate....way more overpowered then bladeforge recon.

Getting sick and tired of all the but hurt whiners on this forum. I really hope turbine does not listen to you.

[Bargol]

This.
You can easily balance it by cooldown adjustment.

Alternative: Make the caster level not dependant on character level but on ....PALADIN levels

Sorry but this is the bumbest thing I have read in this thread. If tied to paladin levels the race will then be 100% dead....might as well just remove it from the game.

[maddmatt70]

if you nerf furyshot then masters blitz will be the next big thing... then nerf that, and something else takes its place. help those at the bottom move up so they stop complaining as much and enjoy the game. that's why we're all here. Hate to lose even more people to elder scrolls or another game for some fustrating change. lfm's are scarce as it is.

I actually despise master's blitz. Only reason I do not want it totally nerfed to oblivion is because melee need something. Master's blitz is the most selfish concept in the entire game. It was made by Axer for Axer before he joined Turbine's staff. The concept of master's blitz is one person gets all the kills in the party while everyone else goes afk after they buff the one person. In a party based game this is an absolutely horrible concept.

[Bargol]

IMO it's silly to think just because a class/race is purchased they should be forever set and never subject to changes, or that you should be eligible for a refund if they do.
Online games that want to keep a modicum of balance can't really work with a premise like that.

How many other races have they heavily nerfed core abilities? None

The only race nerfed was warforge removing abilities they stated were not working as intended.

So turbine should claim bladeforge were not working as intended?

[Bargol]

****, you caught me, ac is useless and it needs to get buffed.

AC is not useless, but does need a buff to be really useful in EE

[genneko]

Realistic Expectations

Adrenaline: not applying to multiple shots
10K+Many: maintenance for the status quo
SLA Recon: change cooldown [30/18/6] to [20/15/10]

[Ivan_Milic]

AC is not useless, but does need a buff to be really useful in EE

Shh, it needs a buff.

[Eth]

Sorry but this is the bumbest thing I have read in this thread. If tied to paladin levels the race will then be 100% dead....might as well just remove it from the game.

lol, I wasn't serious with that one.

[kned225]

YES . . . the 6 second SLA IS game-breaking . . . but without it BF is garbage. You can't really balance this, it's either OP or ****. That's why I'm saying njerf it and give us a refund and LR+20 hearts with race-change.

Same story over and over again.

As if Stevie Wonder couldn't have seen a nerf coming to bf reconstruct. I don't think anyone gullible enough to chase this cheese deserves a refund. Its about learning better judgement. And no, better judgement is not begging devs to guarantee future nerf immunity, its using your head

[Dalsheel]

How many races have had their core abilities nerfed to uselessness? None

If you nerf the bladeforge recon they become useless. Then while your at it you might as well nerf cocoon and remove heal scrolls from the game.

Then you will have nerfed any class / multiclass combo running at endgame who doesn't have spell heals. I guess this is a way for all the pure rangers and paladins to feel powerful again.

Even better remove any cure spells from the game.....and talk about OP healing a pure pallies lay on hands what 14 of them...and they regenerate....way more overpowered then bladeforge recon.

Getting sick and tired of all the but hurt whiners on this forum. I really hope turbine does not listen to you.

We are also getting sick and tired of all the skill-less people who rely on game-breaking and extremely easybutton abilities to run anything above epic normal.

Learn the game, become a better player. Maybe then you will appreciate all the other great things BF has to offer to melee builds. And, I'll say again, nobody said remove Recon SLA from the racial tree. We just want it balanced, so it doesn't overshadow all other race options. Because you know... there ARE some of us who don't enjoy playing a toaster and we are just as entitled as others are to play with top notch toons.

[elvesunited]

Realistic Expectations

Adrenaline: not applying to multiple shots
10K+Many: maintenance for the status quo
SLA Recon: change cooldown [30/18/6] to [20/15/10]

Agreed. Some of the change scenarios being presented here are utterly unrealistic. They are not going to change to the degree where they are going to break builds and need to hand out +20 Lesser hearts again. In particular I see no way they will change how many levels of rogue or monk are needed for evasion or any of the feat requirements. No way that will happen. And nothing that will effectively destroy a build such as taking away SLA Recon entirely or changing 10K to shuriken only.

But I'm a little more optimistic

Adrenaline and slay arrow fixed to not work together.
Improvement to capstone abilities
AC equation tweaked so high AC matters in high content
Possible altering of some of the truly useless or substandard enhancement/ED tree abilities ( Most of Tier 5 tempest comes to mind )

[Teh_Troll]

Alternative: Make the caster level not dependant on character level but on ....PALADIN levels

You are an evil bastard.

[Bargol]

We are also getting sick and tired of all the skill-less people who rely on game-breaking and extremely easybutton abilities to run anything above epic normal.

Learn the game, become a better player. Maybe then you will appreciate all the other great things BF has to offer to melee builds. And, I'll say again, nobody said remove Recon SLA from the racial tree. We just want it balanced, so it doesn't overshadow all other race options. Because you know... there ARE some of us who don't enjoy playing a toaster and we are just as entitled as others are to play with top notch toons.

You are amusing.

I have one bladeforge I created recently all other characters of mine (monk, fighter, sorc, druid, bard, etc. all rely on umd/heal scrolls, any spell healing, and cocoon.

These other options are extremely powerful as well for any character. The additional options for a bladeforge would not make up for a nerfed recon. The issue is terrible players like yourself who don't understand how to make an OP build while using scroll or other healing. If you had the ability to do this you would understand that its not that overpowered.

So because you do not want to play a warforge and are a skill-less player everyone that enjoys something should be nerfed? Yeah good call.