Player Character Balance

[Grimlock]

Can we see a pivot table that shows players that have a Bladeforged character and want Reconstruct nerfed versus players that do not have a Bladeforged character and want Reconstruct taken away? I would hate to see a game feature removed because of resentful players who cannot afford to buy the Bladeforged Iconic Class.

[Dalsheel]

I'm saying a 12 second cooldown on recon would be so bad BF would no longer be a viable melee race.

With a 12-second cooldown you're better off being a fleshy as the fleshy can still reliably keep himself alive with scrolls, SF pots, and cocoon. A BF fighter (no scroll mastery) hits himself for so little on a RECON scroll it's literally a joke, SF pots LOLz, you don't have a second healing option.

So yes, I'm saying your dumb idea would kill BF.

Oh, I see. Fearsome presence isn't worth it. -10% slashing damage - meh. Extra PRR whenever dealt slashing damage - meh again. Power of the forge (aka 4-action-boosts-merged-in-1) - meh yet again... the list goes on, but you probably know all these better than I do.

You can pretend that Recon SLA is all there is to BF, but you're not fooling anyone. The truth is BF has a lot to offer to a melee build, even a Recon SLA. But 6sec CD is game-breaking and you know it.

[Sam1313]

[QUOTE=Grimlock;5302474]

Please. Do us all a favor and stop comparing Dungeons and Dragons Online to real life military units.

Gary Gygax helped form TSR. Tactical Studies Rules. Now correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't Cavaliers and Roundheads BASED upon English Warfare? Ok Cavaliers and Roundheads evolved into what is now known as Dungeons & Dragons. So I would think its safe to say then that the game is based upon Medieval warfare. Medieval warfare has evolved to the Military we have today. I'm just saying.

[Grimlock]

[QUOTE=Sam1313;5302489]

Gary Gygax helped form TSR. Tactical Studies Rules. Now correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't Cavaliers and Roundheads BASED upon English Warfare? Ok Cavaliers and Roundheads evolved into what is now known as Dungeons & Dragons. So I would think its safe to say then that the game is based upon Medieval warfare. Medieval warfare has evolved to the Military we have today. I'm just saying.

D&D was the building blocks for DDO. You probably could say when the game cap was 10 and we were all playing DDO 8 years ago hoping to get lucky and just pull a +5 longsword or a +5 set of full plate the game was pretty close to D&D, but that was then and this is now. There is no comparison between a fantasy online roleplaying mmo and the military. The fact you are comparing the USAF and modern day technology to character classes/roles in a video game has no bearing on this thread and is not relevant to this game in any way, shape, or form.

We are talking about the rules and mechanics of the various classes in game and discussing what makes certain enhancements, abilities, classes, or any combination of those entities broken and in need of redesign.

Back to the topic at hand - nerf monkchers. Leave Bladeforged alone. Make pure classes a viable option. Make it worthwhile to play a divine class.

[Fhauvial]

Gary Gygax helped form TSR. Tactical Studies Rules. Now correct me if I am wrong here but wasn't Cavaliers and Roundheads BASED upon English Warfare? Ok Cavaliers and Roundheads evolved into what is now known as Dungeons & Dragons. So I would think its safe to say then that the game is based upon Medieval warfare. Medieval warfare has evolved to the Military we have today. I'm just saying.

Dungeons & Dragons actually started as a Chainmail variant. That's where our AC rules, etc. come from.

[Sam1313]

[QUOTE=Grimlock;5302491]

D&D was the building blocks for DDO. You probably could say when the game cap was 10 and we were all playing DDO 8 years ago hoping to get lucky and just pull a +5 longsword or a +5 set of full plate the game was pretty close to D&D, but that was then and this is now. There is no comparison between a fantasy online roleplaying mmo and the military. The fact you are comparing the USAF and modern day technology to character classes/roles in a video game has no bearing on this thread and is not relevant to this game in any way, shape, or form.

We are talking about the rules and mechanics of the various classes in game and discussing what makes certain enhancements, abilities, classes, or any combination of those entities broken and in need of redesign.

Back to the topic at hand - nerf monkchers. Leave Bladeforged alone. Make pure classes a viable option. Make it worthwhile to play a divine class.

Well f@$% me. I thought I was playing Dungeons & Dragons? So could you point me in the right direction to where I can go and actually play the REAL Dungeons & Dragons online because THIS thing that has all the artwork and even the titles and logos evidently isn't the real one. Doesn't anyone care about the core anymore? You know the ROOTS of the game? loyalty? Staying true to the original? Last post in here promise.

[Grimlock]

[QUOTE=Sam1313;5302502]

Well f@$% me. I thought I was playing Dungeons & Dragons? So could you point me in the right direction to where I can go and actually play the REAL Dungeons & Dragons online because THIS thing that has all the artwork and even the titles and logos evidently isn't the real one. Doesn't anyone care about the core anymore? You know the ROOTS of the game? loyalty? Staying true to the original? Last post in here promise.

Sorry pilgrim, but that ship has sailed.

[Bargol]

If bladeforge are nerfed in any way....

Turbine should refund everyone who purchased the class their money back.

bladeforge were designed, implemented, tested on mournlands, tested on lamania, and have been on live awhile. Many people bought the class purely for this ability since turbine broke warforge class for anything but arcanes.

If the recon was really all that powerful it would have come up before now.

To many low skill people cry OP on this forum when they just don't understand. A toon with umd, high heal amp, and an good concentration can scroll heal themselves in EE easily, any character with high heal amp and cocoon can heal themselves very well in EE. The handful of recons a bladforge gets (unless bladeforge arcane / divine) is not that overpowered. Stating they can just drink mana pots to get more recons is not a valid argument since any bluebar can do the same thing to pot thru content.

The recon on bladeforge is a strong ability, but instead of nerfing it why not really look at why the handful of self healing options are strong and why most flock to these few options.

..and any fansbois coming along saying I just don't want my OP build etc changed....its not that. I don't want to be subject to another bait and switch by the devs.

[Hoglum]

We like being D&D. We are unlikely to significantly alter or remove core feats or abilities from classes or races.

Evasion is probably the biggest single draw for taking 2 Rogue or Monk levels. However, we may think about how common Reflex saving throws are vs. other saving throws, and other no-save effects that feel fair for monsters and players both. This would be a long-reaching goal, and would need to be made in concert with other changes, such as making sure that players aren’t simply dying, if Evasion was the only thing keeping most characters alive.

I find this frightening. There seem to already be too many "no-save effects" in this game. You say this right after stating you like being D&D. I can see spreading out the types of saving throws but simply by-passing them isn't fair either to monster or players.

I'm not entirely aware of everything in game that do or don't have saves but I can say for sure I've been SSSSLLLOOOOWWWWED every single time I've ever walked through a spell ward trap. Then, I can't even tumble to get out of the fire/poison/whatever.

There are also things like "nerve venom" - no save - works on everything. Undead too?

We also have DODGE now as a %. What happened to the monsters "AIM" ability?

If you like being D&D, please try to at least keep the mechanics in the spirit of D&D. I get it that some things should change for a video game but doing things like eliminating saves over time doesn't sound cool at all. I drank a potion of neutralize poison not too long ago and ran through a poison trap. The potion said I had 15 seconds or so of immunity - I didn't. The poison got me.

It seems to me a good bit of the imbalances causing some trouble are due to straying away from the roots of this game - not from using the guiding principles of D&D to take it to a higher level. I still like the game & a lot of what you all have done with it but the obsession with big numbers & cramming desired effects onto players (&monsters) seems to be causing a lot of this.

[Grimlock]

If bladeforge are nerfed in any way....

Turbine should refund everyone who purchased the class their money back.

bladeforge were designed, implemented, tested on mournlands, tested on lamania, and have been on live awhile. Many people bought the class purely for this ability since turbine broke warforge class for anything but arcanes.

If the recon was really all that powerful it would have come up before now.

To many low skill people cry OP on this forum when they just don't understand. A toon with umd, high heal amp, and an good concentration can scroll heal themselves in EE easily, any character with high heal amp and cocoon can heal themselves very well in EE. The handful of recons a bladforge gets (unless bladeforge arcane / divine) is not that overpowered. Stating they can just drink mana pots to get more recons is not a valid argument since any bluebar can do the same thing to pot thru content.

The recon on bladeforge is a strong ability, but instead of nerfing it why not really look at why the handful of self healing options are strong and why most flock to these few options.

..and any fansbois coming along saying I just don't want my OP build etc changed....its not that. I don't want to be subject to another bait and switch by the devs.

^^ This.

Players have spent Turbine Points to purchase this special Iconic Class. I see no reason to touch it or modify it at all.

[Hathorian]

So the medieval English Longbowmen didn't bring down mobs faster than the knights on the field. As I recall most medieval battles was won because of the English Longbow. Go to a Medieval fair and watch a reenactment. You will see that the Long Bowmen would bring down masses before the knights or horsemen could reach them. Bye the time the knights and horsemen got to the "mob" there was only a few left standing thanks to the Archers.

This has nothing to do with anything.

[BigErkyKid]

I play a BF 14 wiz/4 fvs/2 monk shiradi, with 18 past lives and 9 epic lives and best geared.

Bladeforged= recon sla,

Shiradi arcane caster offers= better dps than any other casters when saves matter
= stay ranged
= best saves (thanks to the ease of multiclass 2 monk/2 pal with little opportunity cost)
= not affected by monster saves at all
= occasional tea time

In essence, with no real trade-offs Shiradi arcane caster gets:

= top notch dps
= best defense
= self healing
= best sustainability (thanks to the ease of multiclass 2-4 fvs with little opportunity cost)
= shiradi arcane requires little player skills which makes it a no brainer cookie cutter and it is way too effective than it should be.

I agree that with a shiradi multiclass sorc you can be a good addition to a party regardless of gear, past lifes or what not.

Get a spam machine 14/4/2 and you don't need to manage SP, just stay away from the mobs and you will be fine. Displacement and kiting to avoid damage and reconstruct quickened in case you get an accidental hit.

To be a good / reasonable DC caster (nuker or not) you need top gear and past lifes. A lot of both. And to know very well how to manage SP, because basically you are burning your SP bar. Check DrPepper's videos to see a good DC nuker sorc in action.

Truth is, to me this seems broken. No combination should be as good right out of the box.

PS - I don't think that monkcher is much more skill/gear intensive. Copy a build, get a pinion from a raider's box and good to go.

[Bargol]

Oh, I see. Fearsome presence isn't worth it. -10% slashing damage - meh. Extra PRR whenever dealt slashing damage - meh again. Power of the forge (aka 4-action-boosts-merged-in-1) - meh yet again... the list goes on, but you probably know all these better than I do.

You can pretend that Recon SLA is all there is to BF, but you're not fooling anyone. The truth is BF has a lot to offer to a melee build, even a Recon SLA. But 6sec CD is game-breaking and you know it.

Why are you all butt hurt over this? Its not game breaking. It doesn't make your loot less. It takes nothing away from you. Bladeforge was clearly meant as a melee class. Melees in general need help in EE. The problem isn't bladeforge it instead lies with mob CR, mob HP, mob melee damage, and saves in EE. Combine that with the fact pure builds are dead because being pure is a net power loss and we have the current environment where good players use bladforge so they can enjoy being a melee in EE and bad players cry and point nerf because they don't understand.

[Mercureal]

So what you're saying is that old people are bad at DDO?


Got it.

And, I believe, that those rotten kids should get off of his/her lawn

[Teh_Troll]

That would be a massive nerf to monkchers (would kill their burst DPS)....

Good.

[Portalcat]

Do you play above casual?

Clearly, you've never seen a monk with 9 martial past lives.

[snape7792]

Just a few questions and comments about survey results

Wizard in heroic levels I would agree but once you hit epic's, unless your playing a FoTM build Ie: Shiradi. Wizards are far from being top DPS


How Just How did Magister not claim the bottom spot here its all but useless

[Alfhild]

PS - I don't think that monkcher is much more skill/gear intensive. Copy a build, get a pinion from a raider's box and good to go.

Out of curiosity, how does the DPS on your two monkchers compare?
I mean you obviously have a Monkcher with the 23 STR for OC, the 21 DEX for CA, the sustainable WIS of 40+ as well as the high CHA to use your pally splash, twisted Bane of Undeath Divine Might and get your UMD high enough to use for tensers/heal without gear swapping, as well as your 3 Ranger PLs.
How does that compare to your 28pt 1st life dex to damage Elf?
I would be interested in you posting videos of each against a test dummy to assess the possible disparity in DPS.

[Chaimberland]

^^ This.

Players have spent Turbine Points to purchase this special Iconic Class. I see no reason to touch it or modify it at all.

100% agree. I'm one of the people who spent real life money for this Iconic Class. I want what I paid for. Please leave it as it is.

[HatsuharuZ]

So the medieval English Longbowmen didn't bring down mobs faster than the knights on the field. As I recall most medieval battles was won because of the English Longbow. Go to a Medieval fair and watch a reenactment. You will see that the Long Bowmen would bring down masses before the knights or horsemen could reach them. Bye the time the knights and horsemen got to the "mob" there was only a few left standing thanks to the Archers.

I don't think they did any of that while running. I doubt even more that any of that was done while running backwards. :P