Player Character Balance

[count_spicoli]

I'm saying a 12 second cooldown on recon would be so bad BF would no longer be a viable melee race.

With a 12-second cooldown you're better off being a fleshy as the fleshy can still reliably keep himself alive with scrolls, SF pots, and cocoon. A BF fighter (no scroll mastery) hits himself for so little on a RECON scroll it's literally a joke, SF pots LOLz, you don't have a second healing option.

So yes, I'm saying your dumb idea would kill BF.

Just comparing bladeforged to other iconic which are mostly superior to the other races how would bladeforge minus reconstruct sla be worse than any other race. You would still get big hp, tactics, healers friend or repair amp weapon bond and power of the forge. He'll the pdk action boost is just 20% dmg. Power of the forge gives you 20% dmg +4 saves and 15 prr. To me pdk, shardi kai and morning lord are still gimp compared to blade forge for melee. And if your a caster fearsome presence is -2 to saves that Procs on any spell you cast with no save. So for a wizzy ' s energy drain sla you get another -2 to saves tacked on. Bladeforged are op bro even without the sla construct.

[Thrudh]

Thanks for the most excellent post and I was VERY glad to read these...

Many players have urged caution with any changes, specifically to minimize collateral damage. As an example, if changes are made to nerf monkcher Furyshotters, don’t break monks, rangers, other Fury of the Wild characters, and all ranged characters at the same time. Favor the scalpel over the sledgehammer.

We’re thinking about the possibility of making some changes to how armor and shields work, with the goal of making medium and heavy armor more viable forms of defense in epic content. These discussions are at the most preliminary stages, but we’re aware there are issues here.

Favor the scalpel over the sledgehammer, yes! Make one or two changes at a time...

What’s specific items do players consider overpowered?
Major caveat: Anything considered overpowered by some is also loved by others. We’re aware of this. Anything on this list is also NOT automatically going to be nerfed or changed in any particular way, but these are things we may take a closer look at. There’s quite a few other possibilities we might look at, but these were near the top of the list for discussions.
• Ranged Fury of the Wild
• Monks using 10K Stars and manyshot (monkchers)
• Bladeforged Reconstruct

Be careful with Ranged Fury of the Wild... Burst DPS is what makes playing an archer fun... Personally, I think you need to make 10k stars and manyshot work in a way that one character can't use both. Try just THAT change, and see how it goes.

[Holleyz]

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Right now if you are not bladeforged monkchers or shirardi especially a wizzy FvS combo I don't want you in my ee group. You will essentially be a drain. Especially any pure class you will be denied. Sorry it's just where the game is at right now.

...and here is the problem. The younger generation wants instant gratification. They want it all handed to them right now without having to work or wait for it. When we was kids we played a game from the start to the finish. Kids now they get a new game and the first thing they ask is:"Hey what are the cheat codes for this?" The bladeforged, monkcher, shiradi wizard and the new shadar-kai ARE the CHEAT codes for this game for THAT generation.

They want to play the game and zerg straight to the boss. Beat the boss down in their sleep grab the loot, get the xp and move on to the next quest so they can level up as fast as possible.
The people I'm used to gaming with is mostly in their late 30's to mid 40's these people actually like to SOLVE a quest or dungeon. They go in smash everything for ransack bonus, Do all the optionals. Then go and find the end boss.

I have a character on every server, I do a lot of pugging and also guild runs. What I have found in my own personal experience is that people that are in their late 30's to mid 40's are the only ones that are still playing Pure Builds. Yeah right now Pure Builds don't hold a candle to the Multi Classed but you know what? I bet we have more fun because each quest on elite at our level IS A CHALLENGE. Sometimes we get pinned down in a quest, out of potions, out of spell points, gear all broken, No shrine in sight and we have to sit and regroup and communicate and come up with a game plan on how to Conquer what is before us with what we have left. THAT is D&D.

[Cardtrick]

Just comparing bladeforged to other iconic which are mostly superior to the other races how would bladeforge minus reconstruct sla be worse than any other race. You would still get big hp, tactics, healers friend or repair amp weapon bond and power of the forge. He'll the pdk action boost is just 20% dmg. Power of the forge gives you 20% dmg +4 saves and 15 prr. To me pdk, shardi kai and morning lord are still gimp compared to blade forge for melee. And if your a caster fearsome presence is -2 to saves that Procs on any spell you cast with no save. So for a wizzy ' s energy drain sla you get another -2 to saves tacked on. Bladeforged are op bro even without the sla construct.

You sound like a person who doesn't play difficult content.

Healing amp is absolutely key to playing a melee if you don't have a good self-healing option. It is arguably the most important thing. Without reconstruct, bladeforged is not just worse than any other iconic race for a melee -- it's worse than any other non-warforged race.

[Grimlock]

Thanks for the most excellent post and I was VERY glad to read these...





Favor the scalpel over the sledgehammer, yes! Make one or two changes at a time...



Be careful with Ranged Fury of the Wild... Burst DPS is what makes playing an archer fun... Personally, I think you need to make 10k stars and manyshot work in a way that one character can't use both. Try just THAT change, and see how it goes.

Kiting is a problem. Archers doing a ******** amount of damage compared to melee is a problem. Imbue, manyshot, 10k stars plus all the other ranged enhancements all working together is a problem.

If you want to play a ranged toon - fine. You should be willing to accept that being ranged, it should take you a lot longer to bring mobs down as opposed to casters or melee.

[count_spicoli]

Snipped

...and here is the problem. The younger generation wants instant gratification. They want it all handed to them right now without having to work or wait for it. When we was kids we played a game from the start to the finish. Kids now they get a new game and the first thing they ask is:"Hey what are the cheat codes for this?" The bladeforged, monkcher, shiradi wizard and the new shadar-kai ARE the CHEAT codes for this game for THAT generation.

They want to play the game and zerg straight to the boss. Beat the boss down in their sleep grab the loot, get the xp and move on to the next quest so they can level up as fast as possible.
The people I'm used to gaming with is mostly in their late 30's to mid 40's these people actually like to SOLVE a quest or dungeon. They go in smash everything for ransack bonus, Do all the optionals. Then go and find the end boss.

I have a character on every server, I do a lot of pugging and also guild runs. What I have found in my own personal experience is that people that are in their late 30's to mid 40's are the only ones that are still playing Pure Builds. Yeah right now Pure Builds don't hold a candle to the Multi Classed but you know what? I bet we have more fun because each quest on elite at our level IS A CHALLENGE. Sometimes we get pinned down in a quest, out of potions, out of spell points, gear all broken, No shrine in sight and we have to sit and regroup and communicate and come up with a game plan on how to Conquer what is before us with what we have left. THAT is D&D.

Nice post. And ya sometimes that is fun.

[Holleyz]

Snipped

I think you need to make 10k stars and manyshot work in a way that one character can't use both. Try just THAT change, and see how it goes.

This really is all that needs to be done.

[rest]

Snipped

...and here is the problem. The younger generation wants instant gratification. They want it all handed to them right now without having to work or wait for it. When we was kids we played a game from the start to the finish. Kids now they get a new game and the first thing they ask is:"Hey what are the cheat codes for this?" The bladeforged, monkcher, shiradi wizard and the new shadar-kai ARE the CHEAT codes for this game for THAT generation.

They want to play the game and zerg straight to the boss. Beat the boss down in their sleep grab the loot, get the xp and move on to the next quest so they can level up as fast as possible.
The people I'm used to gaming with is mostly in their late 30's to mid 40's these people actually like to SOLVE a quest or dungeon. They go in smash everything for ransack bonus, Do all the optionals. Then go and find the end boss.

I have a character on every server, I do a lot of pugging and also guild runs. What I have found in my own personal experience is that people that are in their late 30's to mid 40's are the only ones that are still playing Pure Builds. Yeah right now Pure Builds don't hold a candle to the Multi Classed but you know what? I bet we have more fun because each quest on elite at our level IS A CHALLENGE. Sometimes we get pinned down in a quest, out of potions, out of spell points, gear all broken, No shrine in sight and we have to sit and regroup and communicate and come up with a game plan on how to Conquer what is before us with what we have left. THAT is D&D.

So what you're saying is that old people are bad at DDO?


Got it.

[Thrudh]

I'd also like to see Heavy/Medium Armor and shields provide some serious PRR. We don't need a lot of changes.... Go slow.

[rest]

I'd also like to see Heavy/Medium Armor and shields provide some serious PRR. We don't need a lot of changes.... Go slow.

The big problem with that is the diminishing returns for PRR. Once you're over 100, it's much less useful to keep stacking it than it is from 40->60 or 60->80 or 80->100.

[Hathorian]

Be careful with Ranged Fury of the Wild... Burst DPS is what makes playing an archer fun... Personally, I think you need to make 10k stars and manyshot work in a way that one character can't use both. Try just THAT change, and see how it goes.

That would be a massive nerf to monkchers (would kill their burst DPS)....

[Holleyz]

Kiting is a problem. Archers doing a ******** amount of damage compared to melee is a problem. Imbue, manyshot, 10k stars plus all the other ranged enhancements all working together is a problem.

If you want to play a ranged toon - fine. You should be willing to accept that being ranged, it should take you a lot longer to bring mobs down as opposed to casters or melee.

So the medieval English Longbowmen didn't bring down mobs faster than the knights on the field. As I recall most medieval battles was won because of the English Longbow. Go to a Medieval fair and watch a reenactment. You will see that the Long Bowmen would bring down masses before the knights or horsemen could reach them. Bye the time the knights and horsemen got to the "mob" there was only a few left standing thanks to the Archers.

[Holleyz]

So what you're saying is that old people are bad at DDO?


Got it.

30 to mid 40 is not old. Now anyone over 85 is old lol.

[count_spicoli]

You sound like a person who doesn't play difficult content.

Healing amp is absolutely key to playing a melee if you don't have a good self-healing option. It is arguably the most important thing. Without reconstruct, bladeforged is not just worse than any other iconic race for a melee -- it's worse than any other non-warforged race.

Ha ha I sou nd like someone who doesn't play the hardest content? If you think healing amp and cocoon are gonna keep you alive in the hardest content your not playing the hardest content. You know what does keep you alive tactics. Stunning and tripping them. You know what bladeforge get. Bonuses to tactics. Take your repair line and use reconstruct scrolls to fill in the gaps. Or healers friend and all the available heal amp **** that's out there and your not far behind a fleshie. And silver flame pots are not the answer to self healing. If you want to take 2 hours to complete a ee quest because you are cowering in the corner for 30 Se s every time you chug one then good for you. I don't feel that. As it is now I'll just stick to my bladeforge monkcher and throw up pugs for my ee quests so people can join and watch me solo it.

[Grimlock]

So the medieval English Longbowmen didn't bring down mobs faster than the knights on the field. As I recall most medieval battles was won because of the English Longbow. Go to a Medieval fair and watch a reenactment. You will see that the Long Bowmen would bring down masses before the knights or horsemen could reach them. Bye the time the knights and horsemen got to the "mob" there was only a few left standing thanks to the Archers.

You lost me at English.

This game is built on D&D. Casting aside the rules such that 10k stars, manyshot, and all the other imbues work at the same time is broken. Other players have obviously noticed this - hence the survey results. By your avatar it is clear to me you enjoy playing ranged characters and I am sorry - they are broken and need to be extremely toned down from where they are now.

[Sam1313]

[QUOTE=Grimlock;5302443]Kiting is a problem. Archers doing a ******** amount of damage compared to melee is a problem. Imbue, manyshot, 10k stars plus all the other ranged enhancements all working together is a problem.

If you want to play a ranged toon - fine. You should be willing to accept that being ranged, it should take you a lot longer to bring mobs down as opposed to casters or melee.[/QUOTE

Rangers=Airforce.
Fighters=Tanks
Clerics/FVS=Medics
Rogue=Spies, inside intel
Wizards/Sorcs=Artillery
Paladins/Monks=Faith
Barbarians=Grunts

So what your saying is that the USAF cant do a lot of damage to a large group in a small amount of time?

[Grimlock]

[QUOTE=Sam1313;5302473]

Kiting is a problem. Archers doing a ******** amount of damage compared to melee is a problem. Imbue, manyshot, 10k stars plus all the other ranged enhancements all working together is a problem.

If you want to play a ranged toon - fine. You should be willing to accept that being ranged, it should take you a lot longer to bring mobs down as opposed to casters or melee.[/QUOTE

Rangers=Airforce.
Fighters=Tanks
Clerics/FVS=Medics
Rogue=Spies, inside intel
Wizards/Sorcs=Artillery
Paladins/Monks=Faith
Barbarians=Grunts

So what your saying is that the USAF cant do a lot of damage to a large group in a small amount of time?

Please. Do us all a favor and stop comparing Dungeons and Dragons Online to real life military units.

[Fhauvial]

Unless you dumped heal amp, a second option is SF pots for melees. Why any BF or Warforged would dump it, I don't know. I know you still get a penalty from pos healing, it can be reduced to 20% in the BF tree. This is why we need repair amp items and SF repair pots.

Just chiming in as a Cleric on this one: 90% of the BF I encounter have dumped heal amp entirely. I've stopped healing them at this point.

[Thrudh]

Increase BF Reconstruct cool-down or make it cost more SP, but don't take it away...

Be nice if halflings could get a few more Dragonmark heals to bring us even 1/4 of the way to BF Reconstruct's power... Maybe regenerating dragonmarks? Or just a few more.

[Cardtrick]

As it is now I'll just stick to my bladeforge monkcher and throw up pugs for my ee quests so people can join and watch me solo it.

What on earth? We're not talking about monkchers. They're so broken in other ways that the rules go out the window for them.

Bladeforged isn't even a great race for a monkcher, although there are enough benefits to the class combination that nearly anything can work with them.

When we're talking about nerfing reconstruct too much making bladeforged a bad race, we're talking about melee builds. Things like the Cetus or Zeus builds. Builds that actually have to stand in there and take damage sometimes. That's when healing amp or self healing is important.

(For what it's worth, I still think bladeforged do need to be nerfed. I just think it's crazy for you to claim that removing Reconstruct would still leave them as the best iconic race, when that's obviously not true except for sorcerers.)