Player Character Balance

[pHo3nix]

So you're saying that a 12sec cooldown Recon SLA is worse than no Recon SLA at all? People are self-healing just fine with 12sec cooldown Cocoon and nobody said it's OP. For all I know, there will be people believing that a 12sec Recon SLA is still OP just because you don't need to sacrifice a twist slot to use it, or anything else for that matter.

The fact that you're, at least, admitting it's OP is a start, I guess. Now you just need to realize that doubling the cooldown won't kill the race at all, but it will give a sense of fairness among the races.

PS: btw, I would be perfectly fine with a refund and the removal of BF from my character building options now that I have the past life stacked x3 on my main toon.

The fact is that with cocoon you can use other form of efficient healing considering you should have good HA: so you can use cocoon, Halfing DM, CSW, CMW, SF pots. With BF you can only use reconstruct, everything else is going to suck bad. So putting Recon on a 12 sec CD is going to kill the race, cause you would be better off going fleshie with good HA.

[Krell]

Regarding BF reconstruct . . . any nerfs to it kill the race.

So I say KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!! Just give everyone a FREE LR+20 WITH race change and refund the TP.

It's the best option.

Yes, leave Bladeforged alone or provide adequate compensation. I could live with either option. I didn't buy it for the spiky avatar options.

[Wipey]

People are self-healing just fine with 12sec cooldown Cocoon and nobody said it's OP.

Ranged only , yes, with occassional scroll or two.
Melee ? No way with Cocoon only unless you are super careful ( aka piking and let others eat the damage ).

[Portalcat]

I want to really underline the advantages to buffing capstones, if the goal is to make as many things viable as possible:

(1) It promises few unintended consequences. You buff one build per capstone, and don't need to worry about interactions between different classes.

(2) It offers a non-nerf way to substantially expand viable build choice.

(3) It requires changing only one thing per enhancement tree. That's a low-cost, high-impact use of resources to implement.

(4) It's a very new player and casual-friendly buff, as pure builds are a common default option among them. Such players need not automatically have poor builds just because they don't know better than to remain pure. I don't generally think you should cater the tough-as-nails endgame to casual players, but buffing capstones lets you kill two birds with one stone.

[Ivan_Milic]

So you're saying that a 12sec cooldown Recon SLA is worse than no Recon SLA at all? People are self-healing just fine with 12sec cooldown Cocoon and nobody said it's OP. For all I know, there will be people believing that a 12sec Recon SLA is still OP just because you don't need to sacrifice a twist slot to use it, or anything else for that matter.

By people, you mean ranged chars.

[Qhualor]

Here in lies the problem. Why would you ever consider not being bladeforged? You can self heal immediately and no race offers that. At level 15 you can immediately begin quicken reconstruct yourself. Comparing it to coccon? Seriously? That is a precious twist spot and can't be used until 20! Heal scrolls? Try using a heat scroll when something is smashing your face in or archers are sticking g you or god forbid you have a dot. My shirardi bladeforged is so ridiculous my 6 year old daughter can play it in epic elite and kick butt. With reconstruct spell and sla on different timers you are invincible add in reconstruct scrolls for no sp and now 30% repair amp the race affords you it is ridonculous. Right now if you are not bladeforged monkchers or shirardi especially a wizzy FvS combo I don't want you in my ee group. You will essentially be a drain. Especially any pure class you will be denied. Sorry it's just where the game is at right now.

Quicken can be taken by any class that uses cure/heal spells. Quicken doesn't make BF suddenly better than any other race or class. They are still a type of warforged. I like BF, but I'm not seeing it as OP as people make it out to be. If its because they can repair a little more as a BF Paladin or Ranger than a fleshy Paladin or Ranger than there is nothing wrong with it. If its comparing casters, than I could see that as OP.

I don't who or why someone would compare Cocoon to reconstruct but it wasn't me and there just is no comparison because they both heal differently. Reconstruct is no different than a fleshy hitting a cure spell. They are both instantaneous with no worry to swap to scrolls. You get more benefit from cure/reconstruct spells as a melee than you would from scrolls. There are no enhancements for them to boost it unlike you could with reconstruct.

Just because the game has gravitated more to a certain play style and build doesn't make them all good players. You have to first know how to push a button to repair yourself and be able to play that build. I've grouped with plenty of Shiradis, Monkchers and BF whatever's that were more a burden than the pure fleshy Paladin was. You have to know how to play the OP builds to its full potential.

[Ivan_Milic]

Halfling got DM.

Reconstruct on BF is really good, nobody's arguing on that. The problem is that the reconstruct (and the nice looking armor kit ) is the only reason why most people bought BF. They should have thought about it before putting it in the game, now it's too late to nerf it without making it look like a bait-and-switch tactic. Or they could just nerf it and refund all those that bought BF, but i highly doubt this is going to happen.

They should have thought about damage mitigation on melee.
Because ee mobs hit for 200, how are going to melee if not on bf or keep jumping all the time with heal scrolls on fleshlings.

[Hathorian]

So you build a toon that utilizes all 3 of the things that people report as OP in this thread... Cool!

I did the TR a few weeks ago before this thread was even a twinkle in Varg's eye. Don't be that way.

[Hathorian]

So you're not happy that your 18 past life, elite geared character is only slight better than a first life character? gotcha.

Not sure what that has to do with balance...

Good call. I was wondering what his angle is. He is angry that other people might be as good as him so he wants newer players nerfed.

[Grimlock]

It was extremely refreshing to see you guys chart out your findings. I agree with much of what the rest of the player base has said. It is clear there is a gross imbalance with the Shiradi/monkcher builds and I certainly think examining those systems is important.

My thoughts on looking at fixing the balance in the game:

1. Leave LD alone. Melee's need to be able to put out damage and Blitz is our one hope of competing with casters.
2. Accept the fact that casters are the ultimate end game boogymen. This is true in pnp, it should be true in DDO. The amount of damage they put out is always going to be more than other build types and there is nothing wrong with that.
3. Leave Bladeforged Reconstruct alone. This is a Turbine Point purchased race/class.
4. Rework class capstones. They are ****.
5. Challenge yourselves to think of ways to change the multiclassing system. Provide incentive to migrate away from this. Multiclassed characters should be a melting pot of abilities and skills that provide a character with multiple resources and not be the ultimate end all be all compared to a pure class. Example - taking 12 levels of monk added in 6 ranger + 2 whatever should not have the damage output with bows that a pure Ranger should have. This is silly. 10k stars + manyshot = silly. Multiple imbues = silly.

[Teh_Troll]

Idk about this, I find ac useful.

Do you play above casual?

[Teh_Troll]

So you're saying that a 12sec cooldown Recon SLA is worse than no Recon SLA at all? People are self-healing just fine with 12sec cooldown Cocoon and nobody said it's OP. For all I know, there will be people believing that a 12sec Recon SLA is still OP just because you don't need to sacrifice a twist slot to use it, or anything else for that matter.

I'm saying a 12 second cooldown on recon would be so bad BF would no longer be a viable melee race.

With a 12-second cooldown you're better off being a fleshy as the fleshy can still reliably keep himself alive with scrolls, SF pots, and cocoon. A BF fighter (no scroll mastery) hits himself for so little on a RECON scroll it's literally a joke, SF pots LOLz, you don't have a second healing option.

So yes, I'm saying your dumb idea would kill BF.

[Uska]

Do you play above casual?

It can be useful beyond that but not in EE for sure and rarely in hard.

[Teh_Troll]

Ranged only , yes, with occassional scroll or two.
Melee ? No way with Cocoon only unless you are super careful ( aka piking and let others eat the damage ).

this, but at least as a fleshy you have other self-healing options. A BF only has that recon SLA.

The SLA is needed in it's current state for BF to be viable any nerfing would make them a terrible choice compared to fleshy. It still should be done, but just keep it real and acknowledge you're retconning out this mistake.

[Uska]

So you're saying that a 12sec cooldown Recon SLA is worse than no Recon SLA at all? People are self-healing just fine with 12sec cooldown Cocoon and nobody said it's OP. For all I know, there will be people believing that a 12sec Recon SLA is still OP just because you don't need to sacrifice a twist slot to use it, or anything else for that matter.

The fact that you're, at least, admitting it's OP is a start, I guess. Now you just need to realize that doubling the cooldown won't kill the race at all, but it will give a sense of fairness among the races.

PS: btw, I would be perfectly fine with a refund and the removal of BF from my character building options now that I have the past life stacked x3 on my main toon.

If BF is removed as an option all past lives involving it should be removed as well and nerfing reconstruct is the same thing as destroying BF I don't find it really OP since if it was everyone would be playing BF only and they aren't.

[Hathorian]

PS: btw, I would be perfectly fine with a refund and the removal of BF from my character building options now that I have the past life stacked x3 on my main toon.

You are being very transparent in your reasons for asking for a nerf to BF. This is sad.

[Qhualor]

this, but at least as a fleshy you have other self-healing options. A BF only has that recon SLA.

The SLA is needed in it's current state for BF to be viable any nerfing would make them a terrible choice compared to fleshy. It still should be done, but just keep it real and acknowledge you're retconning out this mistake.

Unless you dumped heal amp, a second option is SF pots for melees. Why any BF or Warforged would dump it, I don't know. I know you still get a penalty from pos healing, it can be reduced to 20% in the BF tree. This is why we need repair amp items and SF repair pots.

[Holleyz]

Snipped

The only one of those I think should be nerfed is 10k stars. Rather see it work with shuriken than with arrows, but if it stays as is than it shouldn't work with manyshot or a decrease in effectability.

+To this--^--That is really all that needs to be done really.

[avepepix]

Do you play above casual?

Being a dwarf intimi tank with 156 AC and 108 prr if my memory dont failme. I can play EH with a hire, till a wizard arrives then its very very hard, so there are quest very hard, and others not so

[Roland_D'Arabel]

I want to really underline the advantages to buffing capstones, if the goal is to make as many things viable as possible:

(1) It promises few unintended consequences. You buff one build per capstone, and don't need to worry about interactions between different classes.

(2) It offers a non-nerf way to substantially expand viable build choice.

(3) It requires changing only one thing per enhancement tree. That's a low-cost, high-impact use of resources to implement.

(4) It's a very new player and casual-friendly buff, as pure builds are a common default option among them. Such players need not automatically have poor builds just because they don't know better than to remain pure. I don't generally think you should cater the tough-as-nails endgame to casual players, but buffing capstones lets you kill two birds with one stone.

I want to echo this and suggest taking it one small step further and buff the level 18 core ability as well.