Player Character Balance

[danlan]

Erm, do you think you might have lost a little objectivity here?

No I don't. In fact a 1st life 14/4/2 wf shiradi caster with a little epic exp (enough to twist in energy burst and two tier 1) and mediocre gear will perform essentially at the same level (provided same knowlege of quest and player skill does not matter much at all)



In fact, shiradi casters require little player investment and it is too accessible yet too powerful compared to other casters. That is another issue with it.

[Dalsheel]

Regarding BF reconstruct . . . any nerfs to it kill the race.

So I say KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!! Just give everyone a FREE LR+20 WITH race change and refund the TP.

It's the best option.

Yep, there would be no reason to be a BF if they nerf its reconstruct.

I would be ok with the TP refund and the free LR+20

You really made me laugh, thanks!

So, after so many threads saying BF is superior to WF in every way possible, we now have this kind of comments... Make up your mind???

Nobody said they're going to remove the Recon SLA. But, I can certainly see it requiring a Turn Undead attempt to activate it, or doubling the cooldown, or both. It is too powerful to be spam-able every 6sec with -essentially- no cost.

[Wipey]

pally , ranger stuff

Why would pally be worse at self healing, same caster levels, same csw, LOHs and heal amp in Kotc.
Duh.

300 reconstructs are REALLY low. It's more like 550 - 700.

[knockcocker]

No I don't. In fact a 1st life 14/4/2 wf shiradi caster with a little epic exp (enough to twist in energy burst and two tier 1) and mediocre gear will perform essentially at the same level (provided same knowlege of quest and player skill does not matter much at all)



In fact, shiradi casters require little player investment and it is too accessible yet too powerful compared to other casters. That is another issue with it.

So you're not happy that your 18 past life, elite geared character is only slight better than a first life character? gotcha.

Not sure what that has to do with balance...

[Sokól]

No one is "focusing on nerfing multi-classing". If you got that impression from the writeup, perhaps we were not clear enough.

Cool that is what keeps me playing

[twigzz]

Yep, there would be no reason to be a BF if they nerf its reconstruct.

I would be ok with the TP refund and the free LR+20

That would be the only way I'd be somewhat happy. I bought BF's for the recon ability.

[danotmano1998]

We’ve read the forum posts and tallied the surveys, and want to echo back what we’ve heard from you guys along with some of our thoughts on some specific points.

Awesome post, Vargouille.
Thanks to you and the team for the detailed analysis and write up.


It's clearer than ever to me that you guys do the best you can with the limitations you have and the difficult balancing act that must be done.
Kudos, and thanks again for working on a game so many folks enjoy.

[TorkRaider]

Rebalancing? Keep it simple and:


1. Make Many Shot, 10k Stars & Endless Fusilade share a cool down.


2. Move Monk & Rogue Evasion to Level 6 Feats


Pause, wait at least a month, review current top builds. If no one is able to complete end game EE (and i doubt this will be the case):


1. Adjust monster damage and HPs.


2. Boost capstone abilities.

[avepepix]

Rebalancing? Keep it simple and:


1. Make Many Shot, 10k Stars & Endless Fusilade share a cool down.


2. Move Monk & Rogue Evasion to Level 6 Feats


Pause, wait at least a month, review current top builds. If no one is able to complete end game EE (and i doubt this will be the case):


1. Adjust monster damage and HPs.


2. Boost capstone abilities.

rouge evasion at lvl 6? its too mutch for a rogue, at lvl 2 its ok

[count_spicoli]

I never had any issues self healing my ranger before he got cocoon. At all. All it took was lots of heal amp and cheap cure serious boosted by heal amp and con op. Never ran out of SP, never had an issue surviving. Every time I hit with a potion or spell I got something like 100 SP back. Then with further heal amp items after 20 and destinies I've never been more self reliant. In any content. If the cocoon is not enough then go back to spells.

My paladin on the other hand can barely stay alive without jumping out of combat. That's because with EE melee he gets hit for 300-400 in damage then have to stay out of sight healing himself multiple times with 300 something reconstructs which the cool down going. The main way of surviving is either using fury hits to knock the assailants down or hit with massive damage. Or having a blitz going. No amount of healing will change the fact that close quarter brawling is by far the worst way to do things in DDO right now (at least in EE).

I got 3 constructs right now and the rest of my toons are fleshies. And I'm not using my barb horc kensei, or human hybrid tank because they have no way to self heal well or mitigate damage. If Turbine make damage mitigation a reality I will definitely use them.

Your experience with the ridonculous BF is so different from mine. I absolutely slay with my ranger and sorc - It's easy and it do moderately well with my BF paladin and Arti but not because of the reconstructs.

Ranger is a class. Lots of classes give a self heal at some kind of cost. My point was no RACE gets this. So if you are not a self healing CLASS the choice is one only BF. Does shardi kai give self heal? Elf? Human? Pdk? Elf? Morning lord gives 2 time per rest big one and would have been ok with bladeforged getting this too. It's just ridiculous they give one race built in crazy self heal that no race gets. So to win ddo be a bladeforged monkchers and you won. Game over.

[Ivan_Milic]

Rebalancing? Keep it simple and:




2. Move Monk & Rogue Evasion to Level 6 Feats

Gonna give +20 lr hearts with that change?

[Teh_Troll]

Nobody said they're going to remove the Recon SLA. But, I can certainly see it requiring a Turn Undead attempt to activate it, or doubling the cooldown, or both. It is too powerful to be spam-able every 6sec with -essentially- no cost.

Do either of those dumb ideas and you've killed Bladeforged.

Seriously, any nerf to the SLA kills it. it's on OP ability that either has to remain in it's OP state or will be nerfed to useless.

For the good of the game . . . it should be nerfed. But refund the points and give people a free respec.

[jakeelala]

We’ve read the forum posts ... We’ll be reading along and looking for your ideas and opinions.

You know its funny:

Of the 3 things you took time to mention might need to be "looked at", 2 of them are things that WE HAD TO PAY FOR. You as Turbine intentioanlly made these things more powerful than other things so people would buy them, and now they're a problem. No kidding?

1. Monkchers
2. BF with Recon

Here's an idea: DONT nerf Monkchers and Furyshotting. You know why? I have talented guildies with well-built Centered Kensai Melee builds that TODAY can outkill the best Furyshotters in our guild when blitzing. Only the best ones though because content for melee's on EE is mostly just too much incoming damage. My point is: DPS is not too low for melee's right now compared to Shiradi casters and Furyshotters.

Incoming damage is TOO HIGH and melee damage mitigation is TOO LOW for melee characters.

Solutions:
-Fix your disastrous changes to AC and change PRR and Dodge accordingly.
-Increase Incoming damage to Ranged and Casters, or make more things to save against that are not Reflex saves.

That will change the entire game without NERFING ANYTHING. If you like, just to make things interesting, find a way to bring down damage of Shiradi Casters and Furyshotters by something small, like 10%. But right now melees played properly can do plenty of damage, they just die immediately if they try to.

[Ivan_Milic]

If you nerf bf recon, you will be seeing less than half melees in end game that you see now.

But refund the points and give people a free respec.

That will never happen, free respec maybe, but refund, lol.

[Ivan_Milic]

You really made me laugh, thanks!

So, after so many threads saying BF is superior to WF in every way possible, we now have this kind of comments... Make up your mind???

Nobody said they're going to remove the Recon SLA. But, I can certainly see it requiring a Turn Undead attempt to activate it, or doubling the cooldown, or both. It is too powerful to be spam-able every 6sec with -essentially- no cost.

You forgot 1 thing, you need to take at least 1 pally lvl if you go bf, wf dont have to.
Nerf recon, then also remove that 1 pally lvl requirement.

[TorkRaider]

Gonna give +20 lr hearts with that change?

Sure, no problem. Want 2?

[Ivan_Milic]

AC and PRR is currently worthless.

Idk about this, I find ac useful.

[Ivan_Milic]

Sure, no problem. Want 2?

Yea, from turbine.

[pHo3nix]

Ranger is a class. Lots of classes give a self heal at some kind of cost. My point was no RACE gets this. So if you are not a self healing CLASS the choice is one only BF. Does shardi kai give self heal? Elf? Human? Pdk? Elf? Morning lord gives 2 time per rest big one and would have been ok with bladeforged getting this too. It's just ridiculous they give one race built in crazy self heal that no race gets. So to win ddo be a bladeforged monkchers and you won. Game over.

Halfling got DM.

Reconstruct on BF is really good, nobody's arguing on that. The problem is that the reconstruct (and the nice looking armor kit ) is the only reason why most people bought BF. They should have thought about it before putting it in the game, now it's too late to nerf it without making it look like a bait-and-switch tactic. Or they could just nerf it and refund all those that bought BF, but i highly doubt this is going to happen.

[Dalsheel]

Do either of those dumb ideas and you've killed Bladeforged.

Seriously, any nerf to the SLA kills it. it's on OP ability that either has to remain in it's OP state or will be nerfed to useless.

For the good of the game . . . it should be nerfed. But refund the points and give people a free respec.

So you're saying that a 12sec cooldown Recon SLA is worse than no Recon SLA at all? People are self-healing just fine with 12sec cooldown Cocoon and nobody said it's OP. For all I know, there will be people believing that a 12sec Recon SLA is still OP just because you don't need to sacrifice a twist slot to use it, or anything else for that matter.

The fact that you're, at least, admitting it's OP is a start, I guess. Now you just need to realize that doubling the cooldown won't kill the race at all, but it will give a sense of fairness among the races.

PS: btw, I would be perfectly fine with a refund and the removal of BF from my character building options now that I have the past life stacked x3 on my main toon.