Player Character Balance

[Daze]

If you add all them extra arrows the monk gets along with manyshot plus slaying arrow plus primal scream plus adrenaline plus the earth stance that equals out to large burst of damage compared to a pure build aa ranger who just has his manyshots plus slaying arrow. Don't even bring up the capstone because the 25% double shot is not working.
And you mentioned that the monks has to obtain a high wisdom to do what they do. Same with pure rangers we have to obtain a high strength to do bow damage with the bow str feat. Same for the pure aa ranger ideal str is 42 just like the monks ideal wisdom is 42

Yes but the monkcher is trying to get all of those stats simultaneously in addition to charisma for saves assuming a paladin splash. ... thanks for making my point for me. I actually went dex based elf on my monkcher to make it work using shuriken expertise and ninja spy enhancements to build up furies when on doubleshot penalty. Let me tell you, dumping strength makes remaining centered troublesome.

Also, see previous posts about versatility of ranger vs monkcher specialization.

As for the capstone not working .... you have every right to demand that gets fixed. Just as the shuriken folks demand their increased crit range.

[Alfhild]

Right but that is with a high wisdom and on a centered monkcher. Both of which are the prices you pay for that ability. I agree 10k stars is better but rangers get close to it and keep their versatility which a monkcher does not get.

A Pure Ranger's does not get the Monk's versatility either.
Assume a 12Mnk/6Ranger/2x split.
Better Saves
Improved Evasion
Superior Runspeed
Abundant Step
25% Incorp compared to 10%
Higher Dodge
+5% heal Amp
choice between +1 crit multiplier/more HP/ Slightly reduced Runspeed OR better saves/slightly increased RoF/better dodge/-1 damage
Your 2x Split adds even more versatility or DPS depending on the splash.
At least around 25% more DPS than the Ranger

What does a pure Ranged Ranger get in comparison?
Slightly more skillpoints?
Light Armor which does what exactly?
Better Self Healing from (assuming quickened) CSW
+3 or 4 more STR since level ups not used for WIS. (see below)


48 is not a High Wisdom on a well-geared non-completionist player at L28:
8ase 16
Tome +5
Level-ups +4 (other +3 in STR)
Gear +15
Acute Instincts +2
Ship Buff +2
Enhancements +2
Yugo Pot +2

For a less hard-core player 44 Wis is hardly taxing at L28
Base 16
Tome +4
Level-ups +4
Gear +14
Acute Instincts +2
Ship Buff +2
Enhancements +2

[Daze]

A Pure Ranger's does not get the Monk's versatility either.
Assume a 12Mnk/6Ranger/2x split.
Better Saves
Improved Evasion
Superior Runspeed
Abundant Step
25% Incorp compared to 10%
Higher Dodge
+5% heal Amp
choice between +1 crit multiplier/more HP/ Slightly reduced Runspeed OR better saves/slightly increased RoF/better dodge/-1 damage, ki regen
Your 2x Split adds even more versatility or DPS depending on the splash.
At least around 25% more DPS than the Ranger
and 3 monk bonus feats
the use of light monk buffs

What does a pure Ranged Ranger get in comparison?
Slightly more skillpoints?
Light Armor which does what exactly? More PRR
Better Self Healing from (assuming quickened) CSW
+3 or 4 more STR since level ups not used for WIS. (see below)
Access to empower heal... actually they both get this so it's a wash
More weapon choices
Twf feats
Improved precise shot for free
Access to more AA and DS cores including cap stones
More free gear/augment slots to stack on various perks due to not needing (Wis/Cha) other stats/insightfuls/exceptionals
Self buffs ... mainly FoM
Longer buffs
Hiding in Plain Sight
Favored enemies which can add up to 12 dmg for all providing enhancments
Ability to dump strength without worrying about weight
More AP's to spend on DPS


48 is not a High Wisdom on a well-geared non-completionist player at L28:
8ase 16
Tome +5
Level-ups +4 (other +3 in STR)
Gear +15
Acute Instincts +2
Ship Buff +2
Enhancements +2
Yugo Pot +2

For a less hard-core player 44 Wis is hardly taxing at L28
Base 16
Tome +4
Level-ups +4
Gear +14
Acute Instincts +2
Ship Buff +2
Enhancements +2

FTFY

and a 25% increase in DPS is overstating it ... and it applies only to ranged which on Rangers is an option not a mandate.

Let's compare apples to apples. Rangers are inherently not meant to be pure ranged, monkchers are.

[maddmatt70]

A Pure Ranger's does not get the Monk's versatility either.
Assume a 12Mnk/6Ranger/2x split.
Better Saves
Improved Evasion
Superior Runspeed
Abundant Step
25% Incorp compared to 10%
Higher Dodge
+5% heal Amp
choice between +1 crit multiplier/more HP/ Slightly reduced Runspeed OR better saves/slightly increased RoF/better dodge/-1 damage
Your 2x Split adds even more versatility or DPS depending on the splash.
At least around 25% more DPS than the Ranger

What does a pure Ranged Ranger get in comparison?
Slightly more skillpoints?
Light Armor which does what exactly?
Better Self Healing from (assuming quickened) CSW
+3 or 4 more STR since level ups not used for WIS. (see below)


48 is not a High Wisdom on a well-geared non-completionist player at L28:
8ase 16
Tome +5
Level-ups +4 (other +3 in STR)
Gear +15
Acute Instincts +2
Ship Buff +2
Enhancements +2
Yugo Pot +2

For a less hard-core player 44 Wis is hardly taxing at L28
Base 16
Tome +4
Level-ups +4
Gear +14
Acute Instincts +2
Ship Buff +2
Enhancements +2

More favored enemy damage for the pure ranger and they get doubleshot for a part of the time where Monkcher never does. It is a bit more closer then people realize from a damage standpoint between pure ranger and monkcher.

[Teh_Troll]

More favored enemy damage for the pure ranger and they get doubleshot for a part of the time where Monkcher never does. It is a bit more closer then people realize from a damage standpoint between pure ranger and monkcher.

Nonsense. Dance of flowers blows away any possible advantage a pure ranger could get.

[Daze]

Nonsense. Dance of flowers blows away any possible advantage a pure ranger could get.

12 atk/dmg per hit vs all 6 chosen favored enemies is not nonsense. Considering it stacks with Dance of flowers (a twist Rangers can use as well) ... I don't see the comparison.

Especially considering with Pinion base weapon dmg avg of 7 (2d6) A Dance of Flowers multiplies that by 1.5 .... 10.5 > 12?



Oh right ... trolled

[Alfhild]

FTFY

Access to empower heal
More weapon choices
Twf feats
Improved precise shot for free
Access to more AA and DS cores including cap stones
More free gear/augment slots to stack on various perks due to not needing (Wis/Cha) other stats/insightfuls/exceptionals
Self buffs ... mainly FoM

Again slightly better self healing, sorry I should have said empowered quicken CSW. But also note there are monkcher builds that allow for Empowered Healing.
TWF feats? uhm if we are comparing ranged capabilities is it irrelevant.
IPS is easily fitted into any Monkcher build. Do you really want to compare feat selection between a monkcher with 6 monk and 6 ranger and a Pure Ranger?
Compared to a Monkcher with 6 Ranger, a Pure gets Aligned arrows; the other cores are increased DS and +2 DEX. Since DS is virtually worthless on a Monkcher and does not make up for 10K stars, it can be ignored. So you get +1 reflex. Want to compare Saves?
A Monkcher with 6 Ranger can spend 13 pts in it for the T3 core and +30 Dam boost. When you compare further expenditures in that tree with what you can purchase in the monk trees, sorry I do not see DWS as an advantage.
Your CHA reference is to the specific pally splash. Stacking WIS and STR is not difficult given the wide ranged of aug slotted gear now available.

and a 25% increase in DPS is overstating it ...

25% increased in Ranged DPS is far from overstating it when you realize that it reflects the increased RoF and the ability to adrenalize more Slayers than a Pure Ranged Ranger.
In a 2 minute period, a Monkcher with 44 WIS averages a RoF of 2.1 arrows per volley.
In a 2 minute period, a pure Ranger averages about 1.75
In the 2 minutes BEFORE using your epic moment, a Monkcher can get an average of 13 adrenalized arrows off compared to the Doubleshotting Ranger's 10 when both expend 6 adrenalines of their 7.
After the Epic Moment, the Monkcher will be able to recharge adrenalines faster due to their increased RoF.

and it applies only to ranged which on Rangers is an option not a mandate.

A pure ranger built for range who chooses to melee is going to outdps a monkcher built for range?

[Daze]

Again slightly better self healing, sorry I should have said empowered quicken CSW. But also note there are monkcher builds that allow for Empowered Healing.
TWF feats? uhm if we are comparing ranged capabilities is it irrelevant.
IPS is easily fitted into any Monkcher build. Do you really want to compare feat selection between a monkcher with 6 monk and 6 ranger and a Pure Ranger?
Compared to a Monkcher with 6 Ranger, a Pure gets Aligned arrows; the other cores are increased DS and +2 DEX. Since DS is virtually worthless on a Monkcher and does not make up for 10K stars, it can be ignored. So you get +1 reflex. Want to compare Saves?
A Monkcher with 6 Ranger can spend 13 pts in it for the T3 core and +30 Dam boost. When you compare further expenditures in that tree with what you can purchase in the monk trees, sorry I do not see DWS as an advantage.
Your CHA reference is to the specific pally splash. Stacking WIS and STR is not difficult given the wide ranged of aug slotted gear now available.


25% increased in Ranged DPS is far from overstating it when you realize that it reflects the increased RoF and the ability to adrenalize more Slayers than a Pure Ranged Ranger.
In a 2 minute period, a Monkcher with 44 WIS averages a RoF of 2.1 arrows per volley.
In a 2 minute period, a pure Ranger averages about 1.75
In the 2 minutes BEFORE using your epic moment, a Monkcher can get an average of 13 adrenalized arrows off compared to the Doubleshotting Ranger's 10 when both expend 6 adrenalines of their 7.
After the Epic Moment, the Monkcher will be able to recharge adrenalines faster due to their increased RoF.


A pure ranger built for range who chooses to melee is going to outdps a monkcher built for range?

Apples to apples. A properly geared and tweaked out melee ranger can be good dps. You are taking a class that can do both and comparing it to a build that cannot. Rangers being comparable in intent to a focused and specialized build .... speaks to their power as a pure class.


The fact that rangers do not need to spend a feat getting IPS matters considering this is 2 base feats and not monk bonuses with the prereq PBS not being an automatic.

You'll note that I added more bonus to monkcher in that previous post for the sake of a true comparison. Being in a character balance thread I think they are as balanced as they are going to get.

[Alfhild]

You are assuming a ranger keeps manyshot on cooldown most monkchers just use 10k stars and save the manyshot for when a burst is needed. Comparing 60% doubleshot just to 10k stars is not that big of a difference so yes a 25% increase in DPS is overstating it.

I assume the Ranger uses Manyshot every time it comes up every 2 minutes..
I assume the Monkcher uses Manyshot every time it comes up every 2 minutes..
Saying Monkchers save Manyshot for burst is YOUR playstyle not most monkchers. I could also say Rangers save Manyshot for burst in my analysis but do not do that. In fact you will likely find many monkchers who say they no longer save Manyshot for burst situations since they feel 10K stars allows them to use Manyshot far more than they would if they were playing a pure Ranger.
You want me to compare a Ranger who maximizes his DPS to a monkcher who does not?

Apples to apples. A properly geared and tweaked out melee ranger can be good dps. You are taking a class that can do both and comparing it to a build that cannot.

Apples to oranges: A properly geared and tweaked out Melee Ranger is not a a properly geared and tweaked out Ranged Ranger.
Also the reason I am comparing Ranged to Ranged is due to the fact that a common voice heard throughout this thread is that Ranged Damage is superior to Melee Damage not due to DPS potential but due to DPS practical limitations created by the current anti-melee mechanisms seen in upper level EE play.

PS ... I use DWS on my monkcher .. as does Sestra in the video linked in this very thread. It is relevant. Heavy draw and favored enemy bonuses are significant when accounting for the difference in DPS. The capstone for DWS is always being in PBS range (+1 [W]) and sneak attack range. Having more points to spend in both trees is also significant for a ranged build.

Can you point to a thread that compares the DPS of a Heavy Draw build which forgoes Slayer Arrows to your standard AA pure Ranger?

The fact that rangers do not need to spend a feat getting IPS matters considering this is 2 base feats and not monk bonuses with the prereq PBS not being an automatic.

Both have to slot PBS
Both get Precise Shot.
IPS requires 1 slot.
It is easily slotted in a monkcher build which is why every monkcher build with a tomed and geared Monkcher has it.
Saying it is free makes for an advantage is only truly for a DEX dumped Ranger.
A difference which makes no difference is not a difference.

You'll note that I added more bonus to monkcher in that previous post.

As for being as balanced as they can get, I disagree: removing the Manyshot Doubleshot debuff for Rangers for instance would make them a lot closer.
I ignored the bonus monk feats since you really only get 1 since 2 are spent for Zen Archery and 10kstars.
Dumping STR means dumping Overwhelming Critical, correct me if I am wrong.
I admit FE plays a part in Ranger builds.
Monkcher's do get some FE damage as well, just not as much and against a smaller number of types.
We could go on comparing PRO's and CON's of feats but I think it would be better in another thread where builds kitted with gear could be posted and feats etc compared.

[Daze]

Ranger only get PBS if they spend a feat on it and in the monkcher case it is necessary instead of a choice in order to get IPS.

As far as manyshot goes it's circumstancial .... If I have to make sure a dragon dies within seconds of a giant it gets saved. If we have a large HP red named coming up it gets saved..... so generally I save it for when it is needed. As do many rangers I know.

Yes I do not have overwhelming critical on my dex based monkcher. I do have precision though .. and the fort bypass slightly makes up for that dps loss.

I don't have a thread for DWS just my experience. I get the same numbers from sniper shot as I do with arrow of slaying with heavy draw and FE with a shorter cooldown and less mana. Which means more fury shots during one manyshot/10k stars if needed. Considering heavy draw and FE dmg keep on going after the sniper shot and fury ... it's a net DPS gain. Add in more AA stuff that I do not have the AP's for and it means even more ranged DPS.

I have already cleaned up the previous post to convey my meaning more cleanly. ... probably while you were typing this one.

Ranger is a class ... monkcher is a build. The difference is in the intent. One has options the other does not ...

If you want to compare melee and ranged I am all for it. Melee need some love in the defense department. Saying that melee is not currently viable doesn't remove the twf from the ranger it just makes them currently useless. If melee get some buffing than they will not be..... which to me is a more appropriate topic for a balance discussion.

[MadGardener]

quick thought on character balance and game, it hard to separate one from the other and this mostly speaks to game then character but depending on how the game is balance it will decide the nature of the characters .

one off topic is incentives to play style (and character building) currently the hard/elite streak bonus and persistence (no death) although meant as incentives and bonus exps they seem to do the opposite. It may work better to not have them disappear perhaps a first life can't get a streak, 2nd heroic life can build a hard steak 1% per hard/elite quest up to hard streak cap and a 3rd life can get get an elite streak 1% per elite quest. this would carry into epics as it does now. and remove the persistence bonus or make it individual.

change epic destiny acquisition. everyone knows the capped in all destinies toon running in best line is far superior to similar character that has to farm up destines. I realize this was not the place the developers were going to but after the market place sit in the farming of destines concept changed. so now we have some toons blasting around in maxed out lines while the ones that can't afford the time slowly trying to group and increase destines or take no exps. this should change, it hurts the weekend warriors and well almost everyone but the top tier. not sure best solution, all i know is that it is night and day between them and it doesn't work.

lastly it not all about damage, everyone plays differently and for different reasons. If you can fix the imbalance in damage output then there are many reasons to play other types of characters, A bard that has great mass songs and can provide support damage that is effective, they don't expect to be the Barbarian (little joke there, but couldn't resist). dedicated healers with passive or reactive healing abilities, lets face it hirings (computer AI) sees and reacts faster the a human trying to find the critically hurt toon somewhere on the battlefield, but if they had reactive options then they would be more effective, example arcon of healing light, mass reactive heal spells, mass deaths door...this is epic after all. pacifism is pretty weak if u added hugh dr bonus then it's a heal turtle option. speaking of spells and epics, although no spells were 'epic' spells I though D&D had an option for epic casters to modify spells to epic levels through research? anyhow will epic spells happen (big game changer there) even if it's upgrades to existing spells like an mass version of deaths door

good luck getting the balance right, to me the bottom line is effective vs the challenges place in front of us. if u give us 140k orange name ( trash mob) then we need toons that do 1k's of points of damage, damage that is unavoidable and deadly without evasion then toons with evasion are preferred and the rest have to beg for help or be left behind for better combat toons. However if the balance can be achieved I would like to think we may be able to have more 'fun' options in characters and abilities.

good luck interesting post

(haven't read it all but seems to be degrading from the OP somewhat)

personally I am not a fan of the epic destiny design (although like the circles ) is there a change coming to them like the heroic redesign? (would also be nice to 'epic' heroic abilities i find these more charter building and defining

[Alfhild]

Ranger only get PBS if they spend a feat on it and in the monkcher case it is necessary instead of a choice in order to get IPS.

A pure Ranged Ranger build and a Monkcher build are both going to contain both.
Thus this difference makes no difference.
The issue of difference only comes into play when assessing the loss of the feat in question on the monk and how it otherwise would be spent.
Which is why I suggest we take the discussion to another thread heh.

Yes I do not have overwhelming critical on my dex based monkcher.
I don't have a thread for DWS just my experience. I get the same numbers from sniper shot as I do with arrow of slaying with a shorter cooldown and less mana.
I have already cleaned up the previous post to convey my meaning more cleanly. ... probably while you were typing this one.

Which is why I suggest we take it to another thread where numbers can be discussed, a consensus possibly reached, and then linked in this thread if necessary.

[Alfhild]

Saying that melee is not currently viable doesn't remove the twf from the ranger it just makes them currently useless. If melee get some buffing than they will not be..... which to me is an appropriate topic for a balance discussion.

[/quote]
I am in complete agreement here. I am basing my argumentation on the current situation, not the one we both desire. Again, need to get back to work, but would love to carry the discussion elsewhere.

[Daze]

change epic destiny acquisition. everyone knows the capped in all destinies toon running in best line is far superior to similar character that has to farm up destines. I realize this was not the place the developers were going to but after the market place sit in the farming of destines concept changed. so now we have some toons blasting around in maxed out lines while the ones that can't afford the time slowly trying to group and increase destines or take no exps. this should change, it hurts the weekend warriors and well almost everyone but the top tier. not sure best solution, all i know is that it is night and day between them and it doesn't work.

/agreed

I'm sure Vargouille has it written down somewhere as I posted it previously but what do you think about gaining karma to a central pool for epic TR's and ability to gain XP in an off destiny while in your main (at a possible xp loss)?

[Desonde]

Rangers do suffer a penalty to shots while running backwards.

And monks don't?

In order for a AA Ranger to get the feat shot on the run (Link here: http://ddowiki.com/page/Shot_on_the_Run )

Shot on the run isn't worth it for any class, and how does a monk get it without jumping through the same hurdles?

But then they have to take the dodge feat and give up the critical ranged feat, ok THEN they have to take the Mobility feat and give up the Improved Critical Ranged feat.

I usually take dodge and mobility on both pure rangers and monkchers [Point Blank, Toughness, Zen Archery, Imp. Critical Ranged, Precision, Dodge, Mobility {monkcher moves two of those into earlier levels so that I can pick up the missing stances at higher levels, and 10k star at monk 6}], and you're taking Improved Critical Ranged twice? Or are you referring to Power Critical?.

Then Finally at level 15 they can obtain Shot on the Run. This actually hurts the ranger in the low to mid levels but they can gain at least critical ranged back at around 18 but then Improved critical ranged gets left off.

It's much more efficient to get the Elf/H-Elf enhancements to increase accuracy than it is to take that feat, especially if you're giving up Imp. Crit. Ranged.

Lets face it the capstone for a pure build AA Ranger just sucks period. As do all the capstones for all the pure builds except the casters. That's why so many people multiclass now days.

Agreed.

What most Archer WONT tell you is that they MISS a lot while running and trying to fire their bows. Why? well it makes them look bad. But the shots they do hit with while running and kiting is usually from the manyshots, That's why they draw the aggro. If it was a single shot while running then the monsters would not even give the Archer a thought.

The only time I miss while running on either ranged character is due to the lack of predictive trajectory where monsters moving across your line of fire cannot be hit. Otherwise I hit just fine [and have no idea how a monk is any different]. If a -4 from moving makes it impossible to hit with, how does a -8 from manyshot make you hit more?

The reason why Manyshot draws aggro is because when compared to 150 dmg hits with a bow vs a two handed weapon, the two handed weapon will attack 2.5 times between arrows, a 150% bonus to hate. When all four arrows from many shot hit the 150% damage bonus is on the rangers side. This also has nothing to do with having monk levels.

So no more about the nerfing or changing of the way archers kite. Unless you have played a AA ranger from level 1 to 28 (no xp stones used) then you have no clue what your talking about. Now I cannot speak for the Monkchers they seem to do more damage in ONE shot than a pure build archer does with manyshots so kiting for them may be different.

You can't state that someone else doesn't know what they are talking about and then make a baseless claim that lacks evidence to prove your point. I would like to know how you are suggesting that each Monkcher arrow does more than 600dmg, because that's how much my ranger's manyshot does [same amount as my monkchers too].

I read your reply to another archer in this thread and I would have to agree with her when she said it appears that you have never played a pure build archer. I have 3 pure build archers 1 of them is currently sitting at level 28 and I would also have to agree with her when she stated that the archers capstone of 25% double shot is a joke. This is not working as it is intended to, if it even works at all.

Is it a joke or is it broken, two different things (if the 25% was in fact working, this would boost the damage [not increase the damage over time to match a monkcher due to the long penalty to doubleshot from manyshot], as w/o manyshot active it will statistically do more damage over 2min than manyshot does in the same time frame (it has a 2min cooldown. You're just changing from burst to sustained).

As for the Monk Archers out dps'ing the pure archers this is correct. My level 28 pure archer runs with a guild mate who has a 28 monk archer and yeah pretty much the monk archer can do more damage in one regular shot than my pure archer can do with manyshots combined with a slaying arrow.

Yea, well my guild mate can hurl Tyrannosaurus Rex's at mobs with his halfling dart thrower, so this is correct. How about some numbers to back this up, because you just stated that your guildmate's monkcher is able to fire regular arrows for 1600+ dmg (1200 if you've built a non-optimal 20 ranger, which would than mean you can't compare non-optimal to optimal and say they are broken, you must create a best case scenario for both situations and back it up with numbers and facts, not hearsay and insults).

And before you tell me that I don't know how to build a archer like you had said to the other ranger in your reply. I do know the archer class very very well.

How about some math and hard facts to back this up instead of baseless statements and insults?

It is YOU who does not know that class. The proof is in your words stating that the ranged class can out dps the melee. This is so far from the truth that it cannot be described into words. Pure build archers has a "burst" of dps with manyshots combined with the slaying arrow, ok then theres this super long cooldown of manyshots to where we are firing one shot at a time. Somewhere between 78 points of damage to 250 with slaying arrow.

78 to 328 w/ slaying arrow ( it's +250, not 250 instead of base damage), and a monkcher has the same numbers (and if both have zen archery [it is not a monk feat, doesn't require any monk levels] you can get A Dance of Flowers and increase that to 100 -> 350, and if you optimize your gear/ED's you can get it to 150->400).

I have seen melee guys hit for in the 200 to 500 per hit every hit so how can you say that 78 points of damage is more than 200 per hit? How do you do your math?

Because you are comparing optimal to non-optimal, My pure ranger hits for 150, and it's not fully geared (in archer's focus I can get close to 200 as well [which would crit for 600]).

The only differences between Monkcher and Rangers in terms of damage are access to 10k stars which greatly increases their attack rate, and a +1 crit multipler in earth stance. Pure Rangers are actually able to get a higher base damage since they don't need to put nearly as many points into Dex and Wisdom (only need a base of 13 to get zen archery), using elf and putting everything into Dex you can get a few extra points of base damage.

[Daze]

Snip

Continue reading.

That basis for comparison was flawed because of a previous post it was centered around ... and ranged vs. melee DPS is what the discussion was about towards the end there ... calling me out on something they didn't think I agreed with until I quoted my own post to disprove them.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

BTW, I melee a lot in EEs.

But I do my best to not draw agro.

And I jump away to heal up if I get hurt bad enough.

Sometimes I die, but is is usually either because I agroed too many or against some orange and red named monsters.


Melee is not useless as some claim.




But yeah... you do have to be very careful.... and ready to run... lol

[BigErkyKid]

Alright, someone pointed me out to a big numbers DPS sorc that doesn't rely on Shiradi and has enough SP to last a long quest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Milshty2EN0

I am very impressed. I admit I was unable to generate one myself.

Now, some words of caution. The player knows extremely well the quests, in most cases he just runs out of SP by the end (all good). Second point, he has 4 relevant past lifes and awful lot of gear. Fine too.

Now my questions - could this be achieved by a top shiradi sorc? If so, would it need the same amount of effort to gather all the required stuff?

And finally, how viable is it to non "elite" players to play a non shirado sorc? Should it then be a default to go shiradi?

Those are my questions regarding balance.

[Teh_Troll]

And finally, how viable is it to non "elite" players to play a non shirado sorc? Should it then be a default to go shiradi?

Those are my questions regarding balance.

The non-elite players are pretty non-elite playing Shiradi also.

[Desonde]

Continue reading.

That basis for comparison was flawed because of a previous post it was centered around ... and ranged vs. melee DPS is what the discussion was about towards the end there ... calling me out on something they didn't think I agreed with until I quoted my own post to disprove them.

Fair enough, but there were a lot of baseless allegations in there about monkcher giving a substantial bonus to hit and base damage that I couldn't ignore.