Player Character Balance

[sirgog]

Turbine's bottom line and declining playerbase would disagree. EEs need to be friendly beyond the "uber elite" and a handful of build concepts, the difference between EH and EE alone breaks a large majority of builds to the point EE is a whole different ball game. (Yes, I regularly run EE, check Degenerate Matter's raid times if you want recent forum proof.) The epic difficulties need to consistently bump up from EN to EE in a believable curve, currently if EE is 10/10 difficulty EN and EH are around a 2 and a 4 respectively. There are bad players I agree, but balancing for a current minority, even one I believe I'm part of, is exactly what Turbine shouldn't be doing.

This is another different issue - the total lack of a difficulty setting designed for the large group of players (probably a majority at high level) that find EH far too easy and EE far too hard. This, in my experience, includes most PUG groups in non-raid content.

Not really related to this discussion but a real problem.

[Teh_Troll]

This is another different issue - the total lack of a difficulty setting designed for the large group of players (probably a majority at high level) that find EH far too easy and EE far too hard. This, in my experience, includes most PUG groups in non-raid content.

Not really related to this discussion but a real problem.

Agreed. it's been an issues since day 1 of MoTu that EH is too easy.

[Delacroix21]

Something I just noticed today is you never see rogues anymore. Maybe they need some love too, but I kinda feel they are preety balanced as is. Not sure why so few now.


Bards however are practically extinct and need major love. I would also say non-monk splashed druid animals are preety weak and have horrible DCs on their skills.

[axel15810]

Agreed. it's been an issues since day 1 of MoTu that EH is too easy.

I agree...I'd love to see an epic very hard. Something smack dab in the middle of EH and EE.

[MeliCat]

I'm talking about PLAYER skill level, not what EDs/builds etc . . . are involved.

Skill level needs to be taken out of the equation when balancing this stuff, that is done by balancing on what the upper echelon of players are capable of doing. This is why the opinions of bad PLAYERS shouldn't count for anything.

Do I need to state that in smaller words?

Agreed.

I keep hearing whinges about this thing or that thing hits to hard or the reflex save is too high or there is no save... and I think to myself... well.. could it be that you are actually meant to move out of the way? As in... this is a real time combat game?

On thing new starters can occasionally bring to this game is really good gaming skills - or they can be like me and barely WASD. People used to go on about about reflex saves required in the Crucible. MrCow's video on some divine showed me that he didn't save - because he didn't need to. Huge eye-opener. I haven't done fire peaks much yet... but again people talk about insanely high saves and I wonder if again it's more that smart play is required not just builds/gear.

In no way should we ever, ever, dumb down the game to cater for people who don't actually play the game for it's active combat. I get great satisfaction in knowing that my gaming reflexes are improving (I can survive half a battle from the Emissary now no perch point ). Why remove that particular interesting challenge to the game? It's really fun. Plenty enough content to avoid those sorts of challenges if you want to. There should be more of these types of challenges in game that make people cry a bit but force them to actually engage rather than just run past.

Builds/Gear though - for those people who spend the time/money/talent to acquire this build/gear it's only fair if it is balanced.

[Impaqt]

Agreed.

I keep hearing whinges about this thing or that thing hits to hard or the reflex save is too high or there is no save... and I think to myself... well.. could it be that you are actually meant to move out of the way? As in... this is a real time combat game?

On thing new starters can occasionally bring to this game is really good gaming skills - or they can be like me and barely WASD. People used to go on about about reflex saves required in the Crucible. MrCow's video on some divine showed me that he didn't save - because he didn't need to. Huge eye-opener. I haven't done fire peaks much yet... but again people talk about insanely high saves and I wonder if again it's more that smart play is required not just builds/gear.

In no way should we ever, ever, dumb down the game to cater for people who don't actually play the game for it's active combat. I get great satisfaction in knowing that my gaming reflexes are improving (I can survive half a battle from the Emissary now no perch point ). Why remove that particular interesting challenge to the game? It's really fun. Plenty enough content to avoid those sorts of challenges if you want to. There should be more of these types of challenges in game that make people cry a bit but force them to actually engage rather than just run past.

Builds/Gear though - for those people who spend the time/money/talent to acquire this build/gear it's only fair if it is balanced.

I'm just not a big fan of this concept and never have been.

DDO is a RPG. Role Playing Game. our characters get to do things we could never do.

no mechanic in ddo should ever completely rely on twitch skills.

the Crucible swim is a fantastic example of this.

Yes, if you are a great twitch gamer, you can swim around the spikes with the current.

but if your not, you can fall back on a high reflex evasion toon to get through it.

I love running the abbot.. and I'm proficient at all the games... but I understand why so many people avoid it.


twitch + lag = a whole lot of not fun.

[MeliCat]

It's not just twitch though. It's game knowledge and good old common sense.

And yes you have to factor in lag in some cases - occasionally to ones benefit.

This touches a lot on melees/availability of things like evasion and reflex. But upper level players are going to take advantge of whatever gear/builds are on offer so it's still dumbing down the game over all if you cater to those with low twitch. I still say leave it out. But I know from previous arguments and what you've said here you would factor it in.

[Eth]

I fail to see a difference between PvP and PvE regarding this.

Could a 6 year old play one of those "Solo's EE Raids" toons and solo an EE raid? No.

Should said 6 year old's opinion on whether something is OP or not have any weight? No, it should not. They don't understand the mechanics well enough to know if something is broken or not.

And yes, I am comparing the opinions of bad players to those who can barely tie their own shoes.

If something is balanced so bad players can do well on something an ubber player will take said "balanced" thing and break the game.

I don't disagree with you. But balance is just not of such importance in a PvE game than in a PvP game where lots of money is involved. Add the fact that this is a non-competative game.
Personally, of course I want the game balanced for EE players.

[Daze]

Balancing for EE doesn't mean every 6 yr old with a 1st life 28pt build in masterwork can handle it. It also doesn't mean the lesser difficulties get ignored.... They will just be that much easier for toons built for EE quests. More to the point, balancing is in regard to usefulness not sameness.

My opinion is to not change the challenges (or nerf anyone) but to change the underlying issues that prohibit build diversity ... IE making melee viable in EE. Whether that is through lesser mob damage/DC inflation or new and improved mitigation/avoidance or a mixture of those options for those getting up close and personal is a topic to be handled on the developer side of things. The viability of non-evasion toons is also a concern considering the prevalence of high damage avoidance requiring a reflex save. Modifications to armors based on type seems solid in theory.... on that note Mithral DOES need to be addressed as it is broken.

Yes melee need some work. There's a reason my 28 past life main character is a ranged toon despite the fact that I love to play melee. I've got tons of gear on that guy too so that isn't an issue. I have the skills to play EE and frequently do.... I'm no Cetus but I know when to run away with the best of them. Even then if I were alone I'd still say maybe you are right and melee don't need help I just need to learn. I am not alone however. Several of my friends with the same mindset and more skills and gear and lives have had similar problems. Last I checked even Cetus can't make a pure melee/fighter work in EE and that is just wrong.

ED's can be balanced just by being able to gain XP in an off destiny while in the main one (possibly at an XP loss) and karma going to a central pool instead of needing to grind out 6 million in a sphere. I've seen shiradi casters outkilled by magister toons and same goes for all offensive destinies. Have yet to see the usefulness of some considering the low DPS of sword and board and the lack of the need for a tank as well as the brokenness of bards..... but, baby steps. My biggest concern here is the inability to gain XP in an off destiny due to inability to finish quests in said destiny no matter what toon you are on ... caster/ranged/melee. So instead of changing around a bunch of destiny abilities for each type of player, change the mechanism with which players can garner epic past lives.

[BigErkyKid]

On character balance. I feel much has been said about epics and not much about heroics. People stay play heroics for a good number of hours; at least when they TR. Also, I don't think we should forget new players.

Alright, so a couple of anecdotes for illustration of the heroic experience.

1) Kiting being OP. Two melee characters running siegebreaker on elite, no hires. We are both similar builds, twf splashed for evasion and with 4 levels of cleric for some melee healing. I am a moderately experienced player (+10 past lifes, done end game on different classes, been playing for a few years) running a first life character (ranger, cleric, rogue) with some gear from my bank but nothing too crazy. My friend has been playing the game for +6 years, he is running on a multiple past lifes character with plenty of GS on him. In the end fight, he switches out of his GS to beat the droam cavarly and gets mobbed and killed. I then pull out my bow (silver bow, lvl6) with paralyzing arrows and kited the droams until they die.


2) Sorcs vs other classes. I recently leveled (twice) WF and BF sorcerers to epics. It was my first set of WF sorcs and even though I knew what to expect I was still surprised. In this case, I played them with ONLY random loot I gathered from questing. Early on (first life I started at 7 with vet2) I was a demi god in every quest and party. The first life was 18/2pally WF that run on pure sorc for a while. The second was a spam machine 14/4fvs/2 pally. The first was easier to play in heroics but of course the second was better for epics. In any case, I blasted my way through the quests in elite. Whenever I got hit, I had a quickened reconstruct ready so I didn't feel in danger very often. In fact I ended up being quite careless with aggro.


My experience with the current first life twf (the one from anecdote 1) is completely different from the sorc. Even though on ocasion I can pull an end fight kiting, I feel that the content on elite at level (or when I run it a bit underlevel) is challenging enough to keep my attention while fast running through the quests. In addition, I feel I rely a lot more on powerful items. Even though I have some decent bta loot, I often feel the need for GS and the rest of goodies.

I figured that perhaps little stories (no need to rant forever) of our experiences (not necessarily in uber geared builds) would be helpful for the developers to get a grasp of the current state of balance.

So, in this case. For moderately experienced players, after a few levels the sorcs are at a completely different level. That's my honest opinion. For new players or for people playing mostly heroics (I know a whole bunch of them. They feel you can be more creative in heroics and they also think epics lack in variety) I can see how this situation could be seen as unfair.

PS - After playing the sorc, I am not having that much fun in the twf life. First because of being spoiled for a few weeks playing a killing machine. Second because I am starting to feel that my build isn't going to cut it for the vale. This is purely because even with BTA items the amount of power I can reach is not enough to make a significant contribution to a regular party, let alone a party full of GS geared multi lifes. Given that the vast majority of lfms are on elite (it wouldn't be so bad on other difficulties) I feel I'll have to rely on guild members, people I know and the benevolence of the random player not to be mocked or kicked from groups for not being up to the level.

[Uska]

On character balance. I feel much has been said about epics and not much about heroics. People stay play heroics for a good number of hours; at least when they TR. Also, I don't think we should forget new players.

Alright, so a couple of anecdotes for illustration of the heroic experience.

1) Kiting being OP. Two melee characters running siegebreaker on elite, no hires. We are both similar builds, twf splashed for evasion and with 4 levels of cleric for some melee healing. I am a moderately experienced player (+10 past lifes, done end game on different classes, been playing for a few years) running a first life character (ranger, cleric, rogue) with some gear from my bank but nothing too crazy. My friend has been playing the game for +6 years, he is running on a multiple past lifes character with plenty of GS on him. In the end fight, he switches out of his GS to beat the droam cavarly and gets mobbed and killed. I then pull out my bow (silver bow, lvl6) with paralyzing arrows and kited the droams until they die.


2) Sorcs vs other classes. I recently leveled (twice) WF and BF sorcerers to epics. It was my first set of WF sorcs and even though I knew what to expect I was still surprised. In this case, I played them with ONLY random loot I gathered from questing. Early on (first life I started at 7 with vet2) I was a demi god in every quest and party. The first life was 18/2pally WF that run on pure sorc for a while. The second was a spam machine 14/4fvs/2 pally. The first was easier to play in heroics but of course the second was better for epics. In any case, I blasted my way through the quests in elite. Whenever I got hit, I had a quickened reconstruct ready so I didn't feel in danger very often. In fact I ended up being quite careless with aggro.


My experience with the current first life twf (the one from anecdote 1) is completely different from the sorc. Even though on ocasion I can pull an end fight kiting, I feel that the content on elite at level (or when I run it a bit underlevel) is challenging enough to keep my attention while fast running through the quests. In addition, I feel I rely a lot more on powerful items. Even though I have some decent bta loot, I often feel the need for GS and the rest of goodies.

I figured that perhaps little stories (no need to rant forever) of our experiences (not necessarily in uber geared builds) would be helpful for the developers to get a grasp of the current state of balance.

So, in this case. For moderately experienced players, after a few levels the sorcs are at a completely different level. That's my honest opinion. For new players or for people playing mostly heroics (I know a whole bunch of them. They feel you can be more creative in heroics and they also think epics lack in variety) I can see how this situation could be seen as unfair.

PS - After playing the sorc, I am not having that much fun in the twf life. First because of being spoiled for a few weeks playing a killing machine. Second because I am starting to feel that my build isn't going to cut it for the vale. This is purely because even with BTA items the amount of power I can reach is not enough to make a significant contribution to a regular party, let alone a party full of GS geared multi lifes. Given that the vast majority of lfms are on elite (it wouldn't be so bad on other difficulties) I feel I'll have to rely on guild members, people I know and the benevolence of the random player not to be mocked or kicked from groups for not being up to the level.

Heroics need to be left alone

[DrawingGuy]

I've created a smattering of threads (mainly in Lam) regarding my opinions here, but I will go ahead and lay it out:

Balance regarding Combat Types:
Ranged Combat: Ranged combat used to definitely be sub-par... I agreed that being at range with less risk justified a bit less damage, but it was far enough behind it needed help. Help came, but as Vargouille stated, it came with it's own problems. My suggestions for fixes:

- Fury of the Wild + Manyshot/10k: This needs to be nerfed. Adrenaline/Unbrideled Fury hit should apply ONLY to the first arrow. The combination of Adren + Slaying + IPS is already more powerful than what Melee can accomplish, but then to have it happen 4 times is far too over the top. *If* this is not a managable change, an alternative rein in would be to have it only apply to the first target it hits. The latter change would make it where ranged combat would still be the best DPS in the game despite it's safety with low play bar, but at least would stop one-shotting swaths of mobs even on EE.

- Doubleshot: This is actually a BUFF that I feel is needed. Currently Manyshot has a stupidly long doubleshot penalty, making doubleshot worthless and "monkcher" vastly superior DPS on top of superior survivability. Lower this debuff to 30-35s -- allow enough uptime to Doubleshot to have it high be viable against a Manyshot/10k build DPS wise. Though the Fury change would also be a step in that direction.

I'm not going to go into Shiradi and cross classing as I will cover that separately, but it really boils down to this: The buffs to ranged combat were GOOD, but the tie-in to current powerful cross-classing along with it's arrow pouring ability into Shiradi/Fury EDs pushed it a bit too far. Ranged Combat itself could even use a few more buffs (like my doubleshot change suggestion), but the tie-ins will need to be addressed.

Spellcasting: Spellcasting in D&D has always been very powerful. In PnP, it was kept in check with daily spell limits. DDO had the SP bar. However with more and more SP options via pots, clickies, items, enhancements and EDs, all along with much deeper SP pools, SP now is virtually unlimited. Add in Epic spells, ED spells, and the ability to stack multiple enhancement tree crit lines, gone are the days of trying to kill and CC cast when you can just run around with breath/energy burst/ruin/etc on cooldown with usually 1k+ SP left when you reach a shrine, or the ability to infinitely cast Shiradi missiles at targets relying on procs to stomp/cc targets. Personally I don't think the spellcasting DPS should be reeled in at all, but rather shaving off SP regain abilities. Basically allow casters to explode, but not be able to go full tilt unless they live off pots (because obviously that's $$$ for you guys).

There is, however, another point in that: DCs. Part of the reason of the rise of DPS casters over DC casters is the concept of "Difficulty = not allowing DCs to succeed". I've always found this to be frustrating. Make us work for it, but make it reliably acheivable in EEs. This can be approached by more strongly applying "role saves" to mobs (high Will/low Fort casters, high Ref/low will Roges/rangers, high Fort/low Ref melees), so DC players can play against content rather than flat all/or mainly nothing it currently is. SP and other active play options (such as mob buffs/debuffs) can keep DC casting in check rather than sky-high DCs.

Melee: Melee has always been my favorite compromise in D&D - Less DPS than casters, but without the limitations, and more DPS than Rangers, but able to take that hit. Unfortunately now it's the lowest DPS while still being the highest risk... unfornately that risk is placed in content where you have little way to mitigate that damage more than what rangers/casters already can do in cloth. So higher risk + less damage + ~same survivability = BAD. Melee has been regulated to

I don't really think melee needs a DPS increase since they'll be back above rangers with Fury/Shiradi tweaks, and their tactics would become much more viable with DC adjustments that would help DC casters, so the real issue comes in survivability, especially on EE. Currently the best way to reach that is the 6 Monk splash. You gain 6% dodge + Evasion + 25% incorp + WIS AC + Stances... all at the cost of getting hit for maybe 50 more damage of the still painful 500+ damage. But that should NOT be the only survival option (and one that I think should be nerfed, though will cover that in my cross-class section). So the key is to make melee ABLE TO SURVIVE HITS beyond just pouring all the HP you can and relying on a Cleric to keep you up. This mean making PRR and AC matter much more along with armor and especially shields making a bigger difference regarding it.

Now I realize that the Devs may be thinking that, "If a melee can just stand there and take it, won't that trivialize content?"... but in a game with roles, you might as well have that read as "We don't want melee tanks in EE content. Just stay at ranged and kite or fight on walls/torches." Allow us to play our roles.

This can be done by buffing PRR and AC. There will need some thought and balance around that, and did have a discussion here (of course filled with Teh_Troll's "nerf monks" that he posts in every thread)" https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...AC-more-useful


Balance regarding Classes
Pure Classes: Honestly until cross-classes are looked, I find it hard to make suggestions regarding pure classes. There are only three pure classes (imo) that are not better served by going cross class: Assassin Rogue, Palemaster Wizard, and Savant Sorc. The first two because any splash hurts DCs which they so desperately need, and Savant for Draconic nuker mode. Though still think Assassin Rogue DC items need help.

Cross Classes: This is the crux of the power climb, and in their attempt to keep it open, opened up a power grab that locked down build viability into a few options and a power gap so wide that it's impossible to build content around it. Pally splashes that allow for sky-high saves and STR. Monk splashes that give everyone the FULL survivability of a Monk. FvS splashes that give full crit lines, spell pens, SP gains. Etc. Massive amounts of power that only takes 4-5 levels to reach EVERYTHING other than cores on top of the usually front-loaded feats and abilities you get from taking the class. A compromise needs to be made - you shouldn't get 90% of your class in both abilities and enhancements from your first 6 levels allowing for builds to be essentially running at 270% power (I know that's projecting). Enhancement tiers NEED to be put further out of reach to open up more "comparatively viable" build options. It needs to be a give and take! You lose access to some tiers in one class to gain tiers in another. I'd say that they need to at least double the level steps in each PrE tree if not more. The power of both cores as well and enhancements need to be looked at to see if they should move up or down in a tree. Make it where people have to pick and choose, rather than the current game of gain everything with that bare splash.

Another point of splashing to look at is the Pally and the Monk splash. People being able to easily push on +20 to saves with a 2 pally splash makes it impossible to balance a fair monster DC cast without requiring that splash or making that splash god mode. Monk splash allowing for 20+ to AC along with 4% dodge just 2 levels (6% with 4) is also an issue. Spreading out Flurry dodge (possibly 1% every 4 levels along with the attack bonus to reach the 6% at level 20) would help that. And capping both Pally saves and Monk AC to their level (uncapped at 20) would go a long way to alleviating those easy power climbs as well. I realize this starts stepping away from PnP more, but it's difficult to balance around classes being different when everyone can get those advantages with that bare splash without requiring that splash, which is not something we want.


Balance regarding EDs
At this point everyone knows what the power EDs are. Legendary Dreadnaught and Fury of the Wild are straight massive power increases to melee and ranged. Shiradi and Draconic are massive power increases to ranged (shiradi at least) and casters. Divines can meh their way through Exalted Angel and tanks can sit in Unyielding Sentinel, but they are outdated icons that you might drag into a raid since 1-shotting mobs and self-healing is where the meta is currently at not needing those classes. Grandmaster of Flowers does well as a trash-killing ED for WIS builds, but really is being able to EIN every 5 minutes superior to doing 3-4x the damage to EVERYTHING including bosses that they can't save against?

So the question is, do you boost the other EDs to similar power levels or nerf the power houses? Well, to be blunt, either method would equate to the same result - buffing the others to meet would allow the power to climb to match making the power EDs less effective similarly to a nerf. You can follow the WoW belief that everyone likes bigger numbers and just power climb... however I believe it should be looked at giving massive buffs for utility so people go into EDs for purpose gains over DPS they can't just twist away like a DC or two.

Divine EDs: The changes to the Divine EDs are a good step with specializing them more giving more purpose to them (though they need a little more work, especially in regards to Epic Moments). I am looking forward to playing with them more, but am reserving from going into them in detail until after I (and the player base) have played in them for a while.

Draconic Incarnation: Your nuking powerhouse. The adjustment of cooldowns, SP cost, and damage done makes this a rather easy ED to shave or add power too. If anything, I'd say increase SP costs to help shave down the ED and help bring in the caster balance I spoke of.

Fatesinger: Fatesinger provides enough utility to bards that all three bards that play, play in that ED. It is also one of the few EDs that help almost any class in some way. The rarety of it's use is more due to the rarity of Bards rather than any problem with the ED. It's epic moment, however, needs some work. Allow the magic damage to hit red/purple names. Consider adjusting duration/cooldown to allow a bard that has MAXED out song duration (enhancement + ED + items) to keep this Epic Moment up 100%. It does take a song use, and bards need some love.

Magister: Alas, this is one of the two 'gutter' EDs IMO (Shadow is the other), offering little other than some twists. Caster levels mean little if your spells have caps. Sigils are not powerful enough to me to justify the SP cost or casting time. Many other abilities are underpowered. You might see a Wizard or an Arti hop in here for a few DC points and maxing out the INT line because they have nothing else to do... but this ED needs help.

Grandmaster of Flowers: GMoF is almost there - allow it to boost ALL monk abilities (ToD, finishing moves, Shintao moves, etc) rather than just tactics, and the utility gained could help draw all monks. Also, give Ubiquity an effect where you turn into a swirling cloud of Lotus Petals when you tumble (like Magister's cloud effect, but all flowery). That would probably gain more to the ED than anything else.

Legendary Dreadnaught: Another powerhouse ED. The entire tree is solid melee utility (though lame Momentum Swing and Lay Waste does not work with unarmed), so many melee users would be in this ED even without it over powering star: Master's Blitz. Cap your dodge and do 250% more damage permanently with a click of a button. Not really effective in boss raids, but a call that no other ED can compete with for melees (would say ranged as well, but Fury Adren's current mechanic makes Blitz pale) unless you're lacking trash to kill or have a party that won't work with you (or have to port in quest). Really, the big thing here I'd say is take off the dodge bonus. The killing power is more than enough without giving survival power too.

Shadow Dancer: In steps underpowered ED #2. Shadow Dancer is faced with half it's tree under a cumbersome Shadow Charge mechanic capped with utterly **** "Epic Moments". Shadow Charges should come with a kill period... No stupid precast. Add an ability for a user to cast and completely remove a target immunity to SA damage allowing Rogues to assassinate Undead/Constructs/100% fort mobs/etc, or to apply SA to bosses more reliably than on a vorpal (or to be able to twist it outside of the ED). The Dark Imbuement Epic Moment with requiring a 4 point investment to gain 2d6 damage (or ~3d6 at range) is just LOL. Here are EDs that allow me to gain hundreds to thousands of damage each hit permanently... and you give me 2d6 for 30s every 5 mins gained off a clunky system? Make ranged SA unlimited, both ranged and melee gaining Unholy damage with explosion chance, every attack a no save blind along with stripping Deathblock for the duration. It's only for 30s out of 5 mins, and even simplifying to on kill, 20 kills is still a tall order far surpassing clicking cleave, trip and sunder a few times before entering the quest.

Fury of the Wild: Overall I actually don't consider this ED overpowered... the issue arises in the fact that it applies to every arrow of a manyshot/10k. Make it apply to first arrow only.

Primal Avatar: This was broken back with Tree-Tarding and unlimited spirit... currently it is not a bad ED per se, but I do feel that there is not enough spirit gain for all of the spirit drains there are. I really do think this ED can afford to have 1 spirit 1 sec gain. Enough room to start playing with spirit without allowing permanency of anything but the small boosts.

Shiradi Champion: Ahh... the RNG ED that has caused so many tears. So many little triggers on a 7% chance, which you simply reach with overwhelming numbers of attacks. Shuricannons, Manyshotting, 10x missiles... they essentially reach guaranteed procs through volume. Of course then there is Queen with a mere 40DC where you can get luck and have a 50% or even 100% chance for all of those procs. The Devs stepped in with some enemy buff procs, which I actually think was the RIGHT direction - the problem was the procs chosen (and the fact they applied it to Colors of the Queen - Colors is a heavy grind that should NOT have enemy buff procs). Adren procs that punish the melees in your party instead of you since they're the ones taking the 1k+ hit (or 2k+ on non-tanks) and Radiant Forcefield that lowers your entire party's DPS for 22s. Better options would be Abundant Step so they can chase kiters better. Cast Spell Resistance. Temporary deflect arrows. Things that can give chaos to the Shiradi procs so it's not all-win by volume without punishing the whole party, but can still be dispelled (I carry dispelling arrow on my Ranger).


At this point I've written more than what's required on most High School papers, so hope this gives some seeds of discussion.

[TheDr0wRanger]

Because you wouldn't notice one way or the other.

Nobody Won't notice.
Failure to make the game fun for the majority, that is non-top players not the un-savable gimps, will result in mass exodus and a shutdown.

Who then will you troll?

[capsela]

Yes. I hate mobs. My computer hates mobs. I'd much rather struggle with one or two big, tough ogres than 20 skeletons bogging down everything. When they each have 1000's of HP, it becomes a gigantic chore to thin them down enough so the lag settles down.

I don't want to see EE be a joke, either, but I equally dislike the ivory tower that it is right now.

I can't imagine how difficult it is to create content that provides a challenge to the very best players that put a lot of time into the game, but still accessible enough to keep players with jobs and families from being completely excluded. My friends and I are pretty good players, but finishing an EE quest at level is such a challenge that I just feel disgruntled after the experience. It's fine if I die a couple times, but not being able to engage a boss because he'll demolish me in a couple hits just sucks. If named items and drop rates weren't so much better at EE, I would have no problem just leaving EE to the pros.

I don't have an archer or caster currently at epic levels, so this comes mainly from the perspective of a melee guy.

Leave that mean boss for the pro gamers. They will loot teh chest for you and sell you the loot for AS. You finance their gaming and are able to stay employed so you can pay to win, it's the cycle of life. And you don't have to bother with EE. TY monkchers for making life easier for everyone.

[Teh_Troll]

Who then will you troll?

As long as there are mammals I'll have somebody.

[Lonnbeimnech]

This is another different issue - the total lack of a difficulty setting designed for the large group of players (probably a majority at high level) that find EH far too easy and EE far too hard. This, in my experience, includes most PUG groups in non-raid content.

Not really related to this discussion but a real problem.

EH needs to go up a bit, give the 6 year olds a safe place to take the training wheels off.

If they did that they could leave EE alone.

[D-molisher]

Well i thouhgt i should add some flavor:

Paladins are in need off love, cause they are gimps.

Bards :
SOngs need longer durations.
Spellsingers well need better songs, higher lvl spells and some love.
Warchanters are okish exept song durations.

Most pureclasses need some love, exept monks and sorcs.

Cleric need some so they dont get agroed even piking doing nothing.
Probably who most dont play em much anymore.

Some off the content since eveningstar really broke encitament to grind most old gear.
Only reason i run most off that content are because i like the quest.

I would love to see some off the old content gear fixed, ill give an example ...
Titan raid, even if its a 3 man raid with 9 pikers ... if you bother to fill it at lvl.

Theres not really a balance in gear, do you even plan new stuff compaired to old content ??
ANd do some about the old races, the iconics sort off unbalanced stuff - up the old races to iconic races plz.

I could continue for hours, but unfortunately i have to go work.

I saw this, hes somewhat right in hes post:

Hello.

I don't know how the game is at the moment. What i can say is that i didn't like it when i tryed to play again ( i tryed again just at the realse of epic GH).

The game has a bad end game since the fist expansion, normaly every update they make, they destroy all the old content ... Look when i used to play before the first expansion pack , the end game bosses were : eChrono, eVoN6, eEDQ , eLoB, TOD, eMA, and you can also add Shorud, VoD and hox to this list . Not to mention the savarth quests and house p , d, k and e redfens quests, House C quests... i mean u had ALOT OF STUFF TO DO..... now u only have 2 raids... pfft ridiculous. The limited 13 hours intance for every quest was cool, made you enjoy alot more of the content of the game in order to farm more epic tokens , game is boring atm.

edit ps: Oh ya , forgot to mention that the new system sucks, epic hard is pathetic, you can solo quests with hire at hard dificulty, not many people goes for elite quests since its too hard for them , they prefer to do ez quests, so ridiculous... every team work u had to have in order to farm stuff was taken off the game, tanks are uselss, healers doesnt need to have any skills , casters /ranged are the only thing that works ok in EE.... so thats why the game sucks atm.

[RJBsComputer]

I feel that the "power creep" comes from the unintended combinations that multiclassing creates because all levels are treated "at total toon level" instead of the splashed level. This can be fix simple by adding the level of the class to saving throws or DC checks. Plus like everyone else is saying, pure classes need to be finer tuned to make going pure more appealing.

As for content being out of balance, that is a design problem of the devs trying to cater to one area of the player base. There will always be that 10% of players that is going to smash through everything and the 10% right behind them that will always be a few steps behind.. There is also going to be 10% of players that play once or twice a month and the 10% that plays once or twice a week.. Then there's the 60% of players that play pure class or plays around with multiclassing, but are just really happy to have good gear and a generalized toon that is more or less good enough to get through quest in a party setting. C - N - H - EC - EN - EH needs to be designed for the players that fall in that 60% area; with Elite and EE being design for the real hard core uber build min/max players.

[FlaviusMaximus]

Save the smaller words and patronizing tone, it isn't welcome or warranted.

Make an adjustment in your settings. I did a few months ago and it has made for an infinitely more enjoyable forum experience.

[Deathdefy]

Shadowdancer's "Move at normal speed when sneaking" is the single most enjoyable thing in the game for me. But, it's only for 30 or 20 seconds or something every 3 minutes, and you have to be in Shadowdancer.

Please either:
- Make it essentially permanent in Shadowdancer; that would be actually epic, even if it's a Tier 6 ability that means I can't get all the +Ints down the side.
- Make it a normal feat so sneaking about in heroics can be the joy it is in epics.
- Make it a level 26 or 28 feat.
- Make it a level 27 feat.
- Make it a Rogue capstone
- Make it a racial enhancement for Drow or Shadar-kai or some other gimp race like Half-Elves (maybe rogue dilettante half-elves to make that choice more viable compared with halfling)
- Put it on an item

Just get it in in there in more ways so the uptime can be greater than 1/6th.