Player Character Balance

[Alfhild]

I have several (26) AA Rangers across the servers. Non of them can hit for damage like that guy is hitting for in that video. My level 28 AA Ranger hits for at the most for 259 hp of dmg and that's with a slaying arrow. All the other arrow hit for somewhere between 78 pts of dmg to 120pts of dmg. And that's with 42 str with the bow str feat Using the Pinion bow. Along with the best gear in the game. Maybe its the Human Class that just sucks? Maybe its the Pure Build Class that just sucks? IDK, but what I do know is theres NO Pure Build going to do that much damage like the character in the video did.

An Arrow of Slaying does Weapon Damage +250
Your slaying arrows "at the most" are doing 259 damage with 42 STR and pinion.
Therefore Pinion is doing 9 damage with 42 STR.
Pinion does 2.50 [2d6] + 7?
42 STR is +16 damage?
Care to youtube your claims?

[Chaios]

Of course not. But gathering cold its useless. Duelist its a better option to a tree that its supouse to be a fighter. Adding dodge and piercing its mutch better option.

****, I do! Why not? It would be almost like "DDO Corrupt-a-wish" only with a poetic twist. Sure, add dodge and piercing also.

[Sam1313]

An Arrow of Slaying does Weapon Damage +250
Your slaying arrows "at the most" are doing 259 damage with 42 STR and pinion.
Therefore Pinion is doing 9 damage with 42 STR.
Pinion does 2.50 [2d6] + 7?
42 STR is +16 damage?
Care to youtube your claims?

Here ya go man....https://www.youtube.com/user/JudasIscariot1313

[avepepix]

Here ya go man....https://www.youtube.com/user/JudasIscariot1313

Its me or you forgot to demostrate the damage?

[BOgre]

that link takes us to your youtube page, not to a specific video. If you have an actual video demonstrating what you're saying, we'd need the actual link to the video. We're not really expected to guess, are we?

[Wipey]

Here ya go man....https://www.youtube.com/user/JudasIscariot1313

Hey, autoattack in Shiradi doesn't really give you much heh.
Get Deadly 10 on gear, Switch to Fury, twist Pin. Get Overwhelming critical if you don't have it already.
Turn autoattack off. Pin the mob, hit human Damage Boost, Manyshot, hit Adrenaline + Slayer Arrow.
Roll 19 or 20 crit.
Profit.

Monkcher is 2 W and 1 crit multi on 19/20 ahead, that's all. .

[Oliphant]

Responding to the original post:

I took the survey, which had good questions. Don't know if the sample will be representative or not.

My opinion is find the simplest solution, which I think is to buff the weak spots in certain types of builds in the epic content. The main weak spot I see is the armor based defenses for melees (like AC and PRR). Bump them up a bit somehow. Do minimal or no nerfs.

Regarding possible nerfs, I think the slayer arrows, many shot and fury effects for ranged builds generally (let's call them big shots for quick reference) should not be nerfed just because some players express jealousy at not matching the damage on their toon. However, I think you should review whether extreme bursts of damage that big shots are putting out are spoiling too many boss fights. Fix AC and PRR effectively and I could see rangers on par with monkchers (unless the monkcher starts punching the ranger in the face, of course).

Personally:
I think it is very cool that players have a way to make a viable ranged-only toon now, which is a fine role playing option that has been difficult to pull off in the past. Let's not lose that.

[pHo3nix]

Hey, autoattack in Shiradi doesn't really give you much heh.
Get Deadly 10 on gear, Switch to Fury, twist Pin. Get Overwhelming critical if you don't have it already.
Turn autoattack off. Pin the mob, hit human Damage Boost, Manyshot, hit Adrenaline + Slayer Arrow.
Roll 19 or 20 crit.
Profit.

Monkcher is 2 W and 1 crit multi on 19/20 ahead, that's all. .

Stop trying to add logic to the thread! A random lvl 20 ranger played and equipped randomly is doing way less damage than a fully geared monkcher played by a top player: clearly monkcher damage is not balanced!!

[Ivan_Milic]

Max DPS builds do not use full plate. They use robes. Why? Because AC is useless with 70% dodge and 10 stacks of blitz going. Evasion would mean a decrease in Monk levels - which is overly saturated in this game.

How do you get 70% dodge?
You do know that blitz 50% dodge caps to your dodge cap, so if your dodge cap is 30, you will have 30% dodge, cant get more.

[Grimlock]

How do you get 70% dodge?
You do know that blitz 50% dodge caps to your dodge cap, so if your dodge cap is 30, you will have 30% dodge, cant get more.

My understanding from blitz is that it ignores the dodge cap and stacks with your existing dodge bonus.

[redspecter23]

My understanding from blitz is that it ignores the dodge cap and stacks with your existing dodge bonus.

If you blitz in heavy armor, you get a dodge of 1% unless you have other ways of raising your cap. Unless something changed in the most recent patch, the dodge bonus from blitz is still limited by your cap.

[Cardtrick]

My understanding from blitz is that it ignores the dodge cap and stacks with your existing dodge bonus.

It is supposed to, based on the description. But unless it changed with the last patch, it doesn't ignore the armor dodge cap.

[Grimlock]

It is supposed to, based on the description. But unless it changed with the last patch, it doesn't ignore the armor dodge cap.

That is my fault for reading the description of Blitz and believing it should work. You'd think I would have caught on after 8 years of playing this game! :-)

Is there anyone on the Players Council or a Mournlands person who can speak as to why this is not wai?

[Cardtrick]

Is there anyone on the Players Council or a Mournlands person who can speak as to why this is not wai?

Given how incredibly powerful Master's Blitz already is, I suspect that any fix to this behavior is going to be coupled with a nerf to the rest of it that you most likely will not be thrilled by. This might be a "be quiet and hope they never look at it" sort of situation.

[GMoneyMackDaddy]

Again,

Give monks their stances back, boost the capstones for those DEDICATED, to focus on staying a pure build.

Maybe un nerf bards while you are at it.

Oh and while you are fixing character balance, fix mob balance as well.

[Ancient]

Given how incredibly powerful Master's Blitz already is, I suspect that any fix to this behavior is going to be coupled with a nerf to the rest of it that you most likely will not be thrilled by. This might be a "be quiet and hope they never look at it" sort of situation.

I know I wish they had never looked at boulder toss.

[Delacroix21]

I really don't understand posts of asking for pure builds to be as powerfull as multiclasses. Let's get one thing straight: multi classing does NOT automatically give you a better toon. In fact a badly planned multiclass character can be significantly WEAKER than pure. It is hard to balance pure builds to be as good as a build that takes the BEST traits of other classes and mashes them together.


Those asking for nerfs to multiclass characters are just jealous that they don't know how to plan and build a character as well, or are upset that their role playing build is not as strong as a build based around actually game mechanics and not just some flavor or backstory.


That being said the only FAIR way to level the field is to buff pure builds rather than nerf multiclasses. The solution lies in capstones. Capstones now are good, but not great. +2 to a stat is HARDlY a reason to stay pure, while +6 to a stat is better. I think doubling the power of capstones across the board (and no clicky capstones, no one wants that garbage) will make pure builds seem MUCH more attractive and make it much harder to justify splashing.


For example:
Rogue assassin: +4 sneak attack dice and a measly 2 int (which is a measly +1 to assassinate DC)
Becomes
+8 sneak attack dice and 6 int. NOW I will seriously consider not getting a few fighter/paladin/monk/ranger levels.

[Sam1313]

Its me or you forgot to demostrate the damage?

that link takes us to your youtube page, not to a specific video. If you have an actual video demonstrating what you're saying, we'd need the actual link to the video. We're not really expected to guess, are we?

Hey, autoattack in Shiradi doesn't really give you much heh.
Get Deadly 10 on gear, Switch to Fury, twist Pin. Get Overwhelming critical if you don't have it already.
Turn autoattack off. Pin the mob, hit human Damage Boost, Manyshot, hit Adrenaline + Slayer Arrow.
Roll 19 or 20 crit.
Profit.

Monkcher is 2 W and 1 crit multi on 19/20 ahead, that's all. .

Well there is 5 videos on that youtube page that has been uploaded you could have clicked on either one of them to see damage.
But since we live in a age where people need their hands held here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B7X...layer_embedded Also note to read the chat so you know whats going to happen. Auto Attack I never ever use. As demonstrated He's a human pure build AA Ranger using a stock pinion with a str of 42 using the bow str feat. His damage is anywhere from 78 pts of dmg to 259 pts of dmg. OCCASIONALLY if he's freaking lucky he can get in the 300 to low 400's but this is still no where near the damage that the Monk Archers are doing.

[redspecter23]

I really don't understand posts of asking for pure builds to be as powerfull as multiclasses. Let's get one thing straight: multi classing does NOT automatically give you a better toon. In fact a badly planned multiclass character can be significantly WEAKER than pure. It is hard to balance pure builds to be as good as a build that takes the BEST traits of other classes and mashes them together.


Those asking for nerfs to multiclass characters are just jealous that they don't know how to plan and build a character as well, or are upset that their role playing build is not as strong as a build based around actually game mechanics and not just some flavor or backstory.


That being said the only FAIR way to level the field is to buff pure builds rather than nerf multiclasses. The solution lies in capstones. Capstones now are good, but not great. +2 to a stat is HARDlY a reason to stay pure, while +6 to a stat is better. I think doubling the power of capstones across the board (and no clicky capstones, no one wants that garbage) will make pure builds seem MUCH more attractive and make it much harder to justify splashing.


For example:
Rogue assassin: +4 sneak attack dice and a measly 2 int (which is a measly +1 to assassinate DC)
Becomes
+8 sneak attack dice and 6 int. NOW I will seriously consider not getting a few fighter/paladin/monk/ranger levels.

You have to be careful if you buff the capstones too much. You raise the powercreep by the capstone amount, shutting out other builds in the process. You make pure builds better at the expense of multiclass which is just the same problem we have now, but reversed.

Instead of just plain making them more powerful, I'd add more utility to capstones. For the assassin one, I'd keep the +4 sneak dice and +2 int but then also give an extra 10 AP when you take the capstone. This gives a pure build more AP to play with so it's potentially more powerful but as you only have one class, your options are limited anyway. Perhaps the 10 AP can go to filling out a racial tree that otherwise would be difficult to allocate points to on a toon with 3 classes. In the future there can be abilities added for 4, 6 or even 10 AP that would be way overcosted for a multiclass build (they could take them at great cost), but would be perfect to spend your capstone AP on.

Of course it doesn't have to be an AP bonus. My point is that adding utility can be a great way to add incentive to the capstones without just raising the power level again.

[pHo3nix]

Well there is 5 videos on that youtube page that has been uploaded you could have clicked on either one of them to see damage.
But since we live in a age where people need their hands held here you go.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8B7X...layer_embedded Also note to read the chat so you know whats going to happen. Auto Attack I never ever use. As demonstrated He's a human pure build AA Ranger using a stock pinion with a str of 42 using the bow str feat. His damage is anywhere from 78 pts of dmg to 259 pts of dmg. OCCASIONALLY if he's freaking lucky he can get in the 300's but this is still no where near the damage that the Monk Archers are doing.

As Encair pointed out, a monkcher got just 2W and +1 crit multiplier on 19-20 in earth stance over a pure ranger if we just consider damage. So if you are doing a lot less damage you are probably missing a lot of the damage bonuses that are available to everyone.