Speed Record Tracking Discussion Thread

[xTethx]

1.) All melee/ranged submissions are pretty much void unless video evidence is 100% justifiable in clear-cut legitimacy. For party runs, it will be even harder to verify, so I'd recommend all those be stricken and void as well (certain exceptions could be made).

2.) Wait for Turbine to verify it has been fixed, then test to be sure it has been fixed. Then the speed runs may resume, as for verifying if the run was made post-fix, it will all depend on when the fix is instated. I'm sure something can be rustled up when that time comes.

3.) Well, most people posting in these kinds of threads are so called "powergamers", they tend to know when detrimental unintended abilities are occurring. It wont be hard to call someone out on their bulls***.

[nolifer1]

agree with teth, all party speedruns that has any meele wipe aswell, sad i waste so much time, but at lest i imporve myself every run and wil be stronger then ever next trys;P
till they break somehing else lol, or who knows meybe there is more bugs...
any bug that give player ridiculous amount of buffs or dps whold be wiped, i know setra talked somthing about dodge bug, idk how to do it or is it fixed?

[Eth]

Like in every other speed run community video evidence is clearly the way to go.
What's the point of showing that you done something, but not how you did it?

You found a way to run something x amount faster? Cool, share it with the others so it's fair game for everyone to do it that way.

The only problem obviously is that not everyone could participate, since some people have technical limitations when it comes to recording/uploading which would result in less submissions.

[ishr]

Like in every other speed run community video evidence is clearly the way to go.
What's the point of showing that you done something, but not how you did it?

You found a way to run something x amount faster? Cool, share it with the others so it's fair game for everyone to do it that way.

The only problem obviously is that not everyone could participate, since some people have technical limitations when it comes to recording/uploading which would result in less submissions.

agree with all of the above, not saying this is an absolute counterpoint but legitimately (not exploits) good strategies that people came up with on their own such as in epic lob might be copied and done better by other players, sort of like revealing a trade secret.

however this is a price that we might be willing to accept as a community to ensure the continued existence of this thread.

to explain my attempt to go with huntas old screenshot based thread, which i acknowledge is more and more looking like an untenable position moving forward, i had faith that members of our community would compete to make themselves better, not to just outdo someone elses number to gain virtual recognition. clearly that faith was not well founded, and while i think the VAST majority of players subscribe to the spirit of huntas old thread, i did not account for exceptions and i take responsibility for this misjudgement. i had really hoped the honor system would work for both the sake of inclusion and for convenience, but things have changed and we must adjust accordingly.

[moo_cow]

Well this is very unfortunate and I guess the video solution makes the most sense. However for people who cannot record is there a possible workaround for them. Perhaps using the search function to look for thunderforged weapons and displaying them all? This would require making sure you have the display for showing all items(or you can't really accept the submission). I am fine recording however as I mainly use sorc anyways, but do you think this could be a possible solution for those people?

[Wizza]

Well this is very unfortunate and I guess the video solution makes the most sense. However for people who cannot record is there a possible workaround for them. Perhaps using the search function to look for thunderforged weapons and displaying them all? This would require making sure you have the display for showing all items(or you can't really accept the submission). I am fine recording however as I mainly use sorc anyways, but do you think this could be a possible solution for those people?

You could just destroy that TF weapon, take screenshots and buy back after the completion/screenshots. With this video solution, some people (e.g me) will not be able to partecipate.

Good luck to the few honest elite powergamers out there for your future records.

[Talonaise]

My toons are all support toons and you will never see any of their names in this thread, but I do find it very interesting and have been following the runs.

These times were very competitive and in a game like DDO where lag is king, to try and beat another time, players likely would have turned off any extra programs to avoid any chance at DDO lagging out. They did this, thinking at the time that submitting a screen shot was proof enough. To now retroactively go back and tell them that because there are some cheaters, you need to throw them all out, is insulting and unfair.

I agree that going forward, requiring video would be the way to go, but if you are going to remove some runs, the ONLY fair way to do it, would be to start over from scratch giving the video requirement from the start.

So my vote -- assume people are being honest, ask them to speak up if they used such weapons , they may very well police themselves. And, going forward, require videos.

[Shaatan]

What's the point of showing that you done something, but not how you did it?

You found a way to run something x amount faster? Cool, share it with the others so it's fair game for everyone to do it that way.

While I mostly agree with what had been said in here so far, I can't agree with this statement.
For me it's not exactly a fair game if you spend your time on figuring out mechanics just to make your run those few minutes/seconds faster than anyone else and then you have someone just watch how you did it and possibly beat you, while using tactics he would've never came up with.

good strategies that people came up with on their own such as in epic lob might be copied and done better by other players, sort of like revealing a trade secret.

This is exactly my point.
As a compromise we could just send a video to Ishr and after he judge and acknowledge it, post screenshots in the thread. That also means way more work for Ishr tho.

[Aviya]

I think the idea of lawfulgood works just fine. Take a screenshot of the search in Your back pack at the start of the quest and one at the end to show that you didn't use the thunderforged Weapons.
The first screenshot is to make sure that you didn't use the Weapons and then destroyed them before the end.
obviously this only works for solo runs.
This Will make more People posting and Would also hide Clever tactics used as Shaatan wants

[nolifer1]

I think the idea of lawfulgood works just fine. Take a screenshot of the search in Your back pack at the start of the quest and one at the end to show that you didn't use the thunderforged Weapons.
The first screenshot is to make sure that you didn't use the Weapons and then destroyed them before the end.
obviously this only works for solo runs.
This Will make more People posting and Would also hide Clever tactics used at Shaatan Would Like

what about i enter quest without weapon, take screenshot, grab weapon from bank, resetting quest and entering again with weapon, after quest done i delete weapon and take screenshot?
ned better idea....

[keveniaftw]

what about i enter quest without weapon, take screenshot, grab weapon from bank, resetting quest and entering again with weapon, after quest done i delete weapon and take screenshot?
ned better idea....

This

Make a video, if someone introduces a new tactic, keep track of the player who uses the tactic first as a reward in case his time gets beaten, that way the time won't go to waste, but it's verifiable

[xTethx]

This

Make a video, if someone introduces a new tactic, keep track of the player who uses the tactic first as a reward in case his time gets beaten, that way the time won't go to waste, but it's verifiable

Or we just wait til this is all fixed then resume with all new melee/ranged re-entries and party re-entries (except those already verified by video). Could be a while though, this is Turbine.

[LawfulGood]

what about i enter quest without weapon, take screenshot, grab weapon from bank, resetting quest and entering again with weapon, after quest done i delete weapon and take screenshot?
ned better idea....

You can take the quest completion time, subtract it from the buffs on that screenshot then compare it to the buff times of the screenshot done when the quest was first entered. The time required to run to the bank, etc. will be very apparent.

[nolifer1]

You can take the quest completion time, subtract it from the buffs on that screenshot then compare it to the buff times of the screenshot done when the quest was first entered. The time required to run to the bank, etc. will be very apparent.

or just regrab shipbuffs lol, like somne say video or it did not happen, not enuff proofs atm till its fixed
i think somone prig valid point that , next patch u post screenshot with new epic destiny if that pug is fixed..... if lol
right now i cant imagine any other way to proof than video

[ishr]

or just regrab shipbuffs lol, like somne say video or it did not happen, not enuff proofs atm till its fixed
i think somone prig valid point that , next patch u post screenshot with new epic destiny if that pug is fixed..... if lol
right now i cant imagine any other way to proof than video

the actions below do not reflect an invalidation of previously obtained records. they are a temporary measure to assure that no more unfairly obtained records are rewarded with a record listing. once we have better control of the situation and knowledge of who is involved, we can consider reinstating previously obtained records.

unfortunately for the time being i'm going to have to save all party run records, and remove them temporarily. i will also have to put a hold on tracking party runs. we will also need to restrict this to solo runs with video evidence. the videos must include the following:

- a video showing the entire length of the quest from pre-entry to completion
- a screenshot showing the completion time clearly (cannot always rely on the poor quality of videos for it to be legible, and also prevents subtle video editing such as fast forward)
- a post which includes ALL of the following information: Quest - Difficulty - Time - Guild - Server - Mode (Solo or Party), when this was incomplete i was previously fishing this info out from your sigs, bios, previous posts, etc., i do not have the time to do this while at the same time having to review videos

i was previously lax about enforcing the requirements but from now on i will have to be strict about these requirements, any run not meeting these requirements will be congratulated but cannot be recorded

at this time i do not have the resources to go back and individually review all previously submitted videos. if you have a video that meets these requirements that was submitted previously, please PM me with simply a direct link to the post and i will review it and update the record ledger accordingly.

for now we will need to try the system where people who are worried about their strategies submit the video directly to me. others who don't care what they reveal can simply post. i will say that videos submitted privately will take longer to update in the record thread.

the reason for the drastic measures is to avoid turbine's method of dealing with such problems, which is to continue to reward cheating players. unfortunately we will need to temporarily punish everyone while we control the situation. once the situation is controlled we can consider reverting back to the previous system.

[Grizzt14]

unfortunately for the time being i'm going to have to wipe all party run records, and stop tracking party runs. we will also need to restrict this to solo runs with video evidence. the videos must include the following:

- a video showing the entire length of the quest from pre-entry to completion
- a screenshot showing the completion time clearly (cannot always rely on the poor quality of videos for it to be legible, and also prevents subtle video editing such as fast forward)
- a post which includes ALL of the following information: Quest - Difficulty - Time - Guild - Server - Mode (Solo or Party), when this was incomplete i was previously fishing this info out from your sigs, bios, previous posts, etc., i do not have the time to do this while at the same time having to review videos

i was previously lax about enforcing the requirements but from now on i will have to be strict about these requirements, any run not meeting these requirements will be congratulated but cannot be recorded

at this time i do not have the resources to go back and individually review all previously submitted videos. if you have a video that meets these requirements that was submitted previously, please PM me with simply a direct link to the post and i will review it and update the record ledger accordingly.

for now we will need to try the system where people who are worried about their strategies submit the video directly to me. others who don't care what they reveal can simply post. i will say that videos submitted privately will take longer to update in the record thread.

Extremely disappointed in this choice as I know Degenerate Matter runs have been legit through and through with no exploits or non-WAI features used. We beat our record again earlier this afternoon at 59 mins and some odd seconds and took screenshots and I personally know everyone in our runs, no one used these exploits. Wipe our time if you want, but we know our run was legit 100%.

[Takllin]

unfortunately for the time being i'm going to have to wipe all party run records, and stop tracking party runs. we will also need to restrict this to solo runs with video evidence. the videos must include the following:

- a video showing the entire length of the quest from pre-entry to completion
- a screenshot showing the completion time clearly (cannot always rely on the poor quality of videos for it to be legible, and also prevents subtle video editing such as fast forward)
- a post which includes ALL of the following information: Quest - Difficulty - Time - Guild - Server - Mode (Solo or Party), when this was incomplete i was previously fishing this info out from your sigs, bios, previous posts, etc., i do not have the time to do this while at the same time having to review videos

i was previously lax about enforcing the requirements but from now on i will have to be strict about these requirements, any run not meeting these requirements will be congratulated but cannot be recorded

at this time i do not have the resources to go back and individually review all previously submitted videos. if you have a video that meets these requirements that was submitted previously, please PM me with simply a direct link to the post and i will review it and update the record ledger accordingly.

for now we will need to try the system where people who are worried about their strategies submit the video directly to me. others who don't care what they reveal can simply post. i will say that videos submitted privately will take longer to update in the record thread.

I;m sorry but thats ********. Requiring people to record videos of their gameplay alienates a lot of people who would like to, and currently are doing speed runs.

Not everyone's computer can handle video recording as well as playing the game. Just because some ****** had to go ahead and exploit to get one speed time doesn't mean that everyone does, or that we should all have to pay for one offense.

We just beat our EE Deathwyrm time again, completely legitimately but won't bother posting it now unless it is changed.

[xTethx]

I;m sorry but thats ********. Requiring people to record videos of their gameplay alienates a lot of people who would like to, and currently are doing speed runs.

Not everyone's computer can handle video recording as well as playing the game. Just because some ****** had to go ahead and exploit to get one speed time doesn't mean that everyone does, or that we should all have to pay for one offense.

We just beat our EE Deathwyrm time again, completely legitimately but won't bother posting it now unless it is changed.

Yep it is a shame, and like I said earlier, I guarantee every entry prior to the one that spoiled it for everyone was legit. Most people will just have to wait until this gets fixed, besides divine crusader will help a lot more people with improving their speed runs anyway.

[ishr]

I;m sorry but thats ********. Requiring people to record videos of their gameplay alienates a lot of people who would like to, and currently are doing speed runs.

Not everyone's computer can handle video recording as well as playing the game. Just because some ****** had to go ahead and exploit to get one speed time doesn't mean that everyone does, or that we should all have to pay for one offense.

We just beat our EE Deathwyrm time again, completely legitimately but won't bother posting it now unless it is changed.

i agree that one guy has ruined it for everyone. i acknowledge that this is not fair at all. i understand your dissatisfaction, as i share in having nearly all of my records wiped. most of all, i don't want to exclude people. prior to the launch of the record thread i strongly supported screen-shot submissions for the exact reason you describe.

what i want to avoid is the approach that has been taken by turbine in the past, that is letting things run wild while i try to fix things. i have saved all previous times. if it does indeed prove to be an isolated occurrence (currently we know of only one player engaged in this), we can roll back to the records we previously had. however something i will not tolerate is wrongfully rewarding even a single bad egg falling through the cracks.

i don't like this solution at all, but for the time being it is how we will have to deal with this problem.

Extremely disappointed in this choice as I know Degenerate Matter runs have been legit through and through with no exploits or non-WAI features used. We beat our record again earlier this afternoon at 59 mins and some odd seconds and took screenshots and I personally know everyone in our runs, no one used these exploits. Wipe our time if you want, but we know our run was legit 100%.

In no way does my wipe imply that I have deemed your run to be unfairly obtained. I should have made this clear but my primary goal right now is damage control.

[ishr]

furthermore, that decision was not final. in my opening line i stated that my goal was damage control. i hate to make unilateral decisions but i did not want cheaters to remain on the leaderboard a second more than necessary. if the community agrees that this was an action by 1 individual we can certainly simply erase his records alone and reinstate all others. if on the other hand the community feels that this was a widespread problem we can also start fresh. how we treat and manage future records is also something we can discuss.