Saving DDO, The New Forgotten Realms Era.

[Ungood]

Ok.

I know, I know, there have been a million and one ideas on how to "save" DDO, and they often look like a spiral into depravity from bad to worse to things that really should not have been thunked up, but, before you all get the torches and pitch forks, just hear me out on this.

I present:

"The New Forgotten Realms Era"

The idea is simple, Turbine makes it so that any character can start at level 1 in either FR or Ebberon, and I am not talking that Hall of Heros stuff, I am talking, you make either a FR Character OR an Ebberon Character.

No, what I am proposing is a whole separate environment for Forgotten Realms, away from the Monty Haul and other problems of Ebberon.

Ok, So now you might be wondering: How does it work?

I works like this. The story for players that enter into the Forgotten Realms setting, is that it is 100 years in the future from when the Ebberon Heros defeated Lolth. Ana is passed away as an old woman, or moved off to be with Elimister, and things have gone by, life has returned to normal in the village of Eveningstar, and all that remains of Ebberon in the small village is the stories of these other world hero that have long since gone back to their home world, now that the threat has been averted.

The Drow, now defeated (Mostly), their power broken (Mostly) and their Goddess banished (Mostly) are not causing any current problems, and have been naught but a bad memory for most, and the stories that children get told to scare them.

Lo and Behold, an Orc Uprising has begin in Kings Forest, and there are reports of Undead in the Prison of Weloon, now, is the time for you, now if your moment to show the world what you are made of, clinging to the heroics of the stories of the Ebberon Heros, people from the village rise up to fight these problems, (You) among them, and now is your chance to carve your name in the history books.

So, here is how it works.

The setting is Low Magic, Almost Zero Loot.

There would be no Vendors for Potions, no buying stacks of scrolls and all kinds of stuff. None of that.

Loot Gen, would rare drop only, and be defaulted back to the old style of Loot gen, no deadly, no Ghost Bane, no Tiers I - X, just the normal stuff we all recall from the books.

No Slots, No Augments, just, good old school style DnD type loot.

Most chests being nothing but potions, scrolls, and coinage, with some sprinkling of 'collectibles' because we gotta have red and green bag usage. There would be vendors that would trade in collectibles for potions and scrolls and such.

This, players would have to put in some real effort to build their toons, to get decent gear.

All named items from the FR "packs" would be BtC, and exclusive.

Ok, now, this we set the stage, a real feeling of FR, low magic, low gear drops, a real challenge to get what you are looking for, and it would function like Snowy Side Krothos, you can leave, but you can't come back.

So how would you leave?

Simple enough, you could take the Hall of Hero's to Ebbron, that would port you 100 years in the past, back to the Ebberon Era, Or you could Level to 20th, and then take the "Epic Level Walk the Rift" back to the Ebberon Time to face Lolth. (Think "Beyond the Rift" in reverse)

But this would be required if a player wanted to progress past level 20, as epic levels would not exist in this old style Forgotten Realms, that would be reserved to the world of Ebberon.

Now, there would only be 2 ways to get into the Forgotten Realms Era, that would start a New Toon, or TR.

But, if you TR'ed, you would not have access to your TR bank, as that would be 100 years in the past, and in Ebberon, and the rift to FR had been closed, so they could move your stuff to the New FR Era. Only once you return to Ebberon do you get access to your TR bank. (Just like Snowy Side)

This way, some people really could enjoy FR without the taint of Ebberon all over it, the stupid powerful loot gen, the insane amount of magic and abundance thrown all over the place.

This would be old School, This would be Forgotten Realms as players remembered it, when a Flaming sword was cherished, and +1 Full Plate was rocking the scene.

I think this would really revitalize the game for a lot of new players, players who want to give it a go, but don't want to have to try and keep up with the several year vet who is by this point is insanely powerful and has enough raid gear and epic items to bury a small town.

Such is my idea to fix that, to return to the basics, without hurting anyone else's game.

Nothing changes for the existing game, all that is, would be as it is, more content could be added, Ebberon packs, and FR packs, each in their own time.

It would make for a great "expansion" that would feel like an Expansion.

[Trillea]

Ok.

I know, I know, there have been a million and one ideas on how to "save" DDO, and they often look like a spiral into depravity from bad to worse to things that really should not have been thunked up, but, before you all get the torches and pitch forks, just hear me out on this.

I present:

"The New Forgotten Realms Era"

The idea is simple, Turbine makes it so that any character can start at level 1 in either FR or Ebberon, and I am not talking that Hall of Heros stuff, I am talking, you make either a FR Character OR an Ebberon Character.

No, what I am proposing is a whole separate environment for Forgotten Realms, away from the Monty Haul and other problems of Ebberon.

Ok, So now you might be wondering: How does it work?

I works like this. The story for players that enter into the Forgotten Realms setting, is that it is 100 years in the future from when the Ebberon Heros defeated Lolth. Ana is passed away as an old woman, or moved off to be with Elimister, and things have gone by, life has returned to normal in the village of Eveningstar, and all that remains of Ebberon in the small village is the stories of these other world hero that have long since gone back to their home world, now that the threat has been averted.

The Drow, now defeated (Mostly), their power broken (Mostly) and their Goddess banished (Mostly) are not causing any current problems, and have been naught but a bad memory for most, and the stories that children get told to scare them.

Lo and Behold, an Orc Uprising has begin in Kings Forest, and there are reports of Undead in the Prison of Weloon, now, is the time for you, now if your moment to show the world what you are made of, clinging to the heroics of the stories of the Ebberon Heros, people from the village rise up to fight these problems, (You) among them, and now is your chance to carve your name in the history books.

So, here is how it works.

The setting is Low Magic, Almost Zero Loot.

There would be no Vendors for Potions, no buying stacks of scrolls and all kinds of stuff. None of that.

Loot Gen, would rare drop only, and be defaulted back to the old style of Loot gen, no deadly, no Ghost Bane, no Tiers I - X, just the normal stuff we all recall from the books.

No Slots, No Augments, just, good old school style DnD type loot.

Most chests being nothing but potions, scrolls, and coinage, with some sprinkling of 'collectibles' because we gotta have red and green bag usage. There would be vendors that would trade in collectibles for potions and scrolls and such.

This, players would have to put in some real effort to build their toons, to get decent gear.

All named items from the FR "packs" would be BtC, and exclusive.

Ok, now, this we set the stage, a real feeling of FR, low magic, low gear drops, a real challenge to get what you are looking for, and it would function like Snowy Side Krothos, you can leave, but you can't come back.

So how would you leave?

Simple enough, you could take the Hall of Hero's to Ebbron, that would port you 100 years in the past, back to the Ebberon Era, Or you could Level to 20th, and then take the "Epic Level Walk the Rift" back to the Ebberon Time to face Lolth. (Think "Beyond the Rift" in reverse)

But this would be required if a player wanted to progress past level 20, as epic levels would not exist in this old style Forgotten Realms, that would be reserved to the world of Ebberon.

Now, there would only be 2 ways to get into the Forgotten Realms Era, that would start a New Toon, or TR.

But, if you TR'ed, you would not have access to your TR bank, as that would be 100 years in the past, and in Ebberon, and the rift to FR had been closed, so they could move your stuff to the New FR Era. Only once you return to Ebberon do you get access to your TR bank. (Just like Snowy Side)

This way, some people really could enjoy FR without the taint of Ebberon all over it, the stupid powerful loot gen, the insane amount of magic and abundance thrown all over the place.

This would be old School, This would be Forgotten Realms as players remembered it, when a Flaming sword was cherished, and +1 Full Plate was rocking the scene.

I think this would really revitalize the game for a lot of new players, players who want to give it a go, but don't want to have to try and keep up with the several year vet who is by this point is insanely powerful and has enough raid gear and epic items to bury a small town.

Such is my idea to fix that, to return to the basics, without hurting anyone else's game.

Nothing changes for the existing game, all that is, would be as it is, more content could be added, Ebberon packs, and FR packs, each in their own time.

It would make for a great "expansion" that would feel like an Expansion.

I understand this, I really do. Unfortunately I don't think it would work. For one, FR is just as Monty Hall as Ebberon per canon - you never know when that farmer over the hill is a retired adventurer with a magic ring of 2 wishes (he used 1 wish to retire). If you want a low-magic, low-loot setting I think that Darksun would be a more proper setting, and good luck getting that IP.

As for wanting a low-magic campaign it doesn't work too well in a MMO setting. The characters HAVE to be powerful to be able to overcome a dungeon with a halfway decent mob density, unless you want to spend hours in empty corridors (which I would understand but it puts you in a severe minority of the playerbase). I know and understand the "wanting to get back the feel of D&D" but that ship sailed its last when they took away the XP debt for death.

I wish that I was on the dev team now or back then, but especially back then. They made some significant fundamental mistakes when they started this game which have ended up snowballing to the overwhelmingly-inflated monster stats that we see today. But the past is the past, and nothing short of a brand new game would be enough to do it.

[Catteras]

Remember Turbine laid off devs. They don't have the manpower to code an entirely new game with tons of entirely new quests as you seem to be suggesting. (Not that Turbine ever had that manpower anytime recently)

Low magic. Low loot. Count me out. That reminds me of a tabletop session where the DM made us roleplay crossing a river. It took us 30 minutes to work out the details of how to cross it. Most boring 30 minutes of my life...

[Impaqt]

o.O

um.. no.

cant imagine that scenario holding my attention for muych more than 10 or 15 minutes.

[Memnir]

This would not save DDO.

[Uska]

FR is more monty haul and overpowered than eberron ever dreamed of being not to mention completely and utterly boring and unoriginal. That said a separate game world wont save ddo and could likely speed its demise.

[Teh_Troll]

LOLz . . . low loot.

[redspecter23]

In my opinion, I think you have a great starting point for an idea, but you're really dead set on adding a low magic feel to it. That's your choice. I don't really see it gaining any steam that way, but I get that's what you want. Bending the game around a set of low magic rules like that appeals to such a small portion of the player base overall. This is already a niche game with a smallish, diminishing player base. Making content that many will have little interest in (not because the content is bad, but because the rules of the game are altered) is probably not a great money making move. Loot drives this game for many players.

The time travel/low level in the past concept is pure gold. They could reuse all the current dungeons in FR but lower the levels and populate them with lower level mobs if necessary to provide quests for low level players. Small amounts of tweaking to existing content opens up a world of new low level content. It's not really needed, but if there came a time they wanted to make FR a real 1-20 environment, it would be a good way to start it up.

[Livmo]

Ok.
The idea is simple, Turbine makes it so that any character can start at level 1 in either FR or Ebberon, and I am not talking that Hall of Heros stuff, I am talking, you make either a FR Character OR an Ebberon Character.

I feel that you have identified a need. Start at level 1 and level up outside the Ebberon setting. The concept is great. However like in-game play, there are many ways to achieve the same result; the ability to start at level one and move up outside of Ebberon.

I will build on your foundation. I propose vignettes. For example the first vignette will run from level 1-5. The second 6-11. After that 12-15, 16-20...etc. Or in some ranged fashion.

The vignettes can draw from real DnD moduels. Each vignette would be in a different setting. The adventures would come from various campaign settings like Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Mystara, Kara-Tur, Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, etc. For instance, Dark Sun 1-5, Dragonlance 6-11, Ravenloft 12-15, and Forgotten Realms 16-20.

In my example there are 4 vignettes. That could be 4 small teams of workers. Perhaps all 4 level ranges can be worked on all at the same time? Wizards of the Coast could deal the dungeons and DDO dish out the MMO playability?

Here is a Wiki page that makes my mouth water over your idea to address the need of players wanting to get thru the level ranges outside of the Ebberon setting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ragons_modules

The vignettes don't have to be massive productions. Use the module, or modules, as the guide to create and translate into MMO playability.

I'm hungry. Feed the need!

[Orratti]

I've suggested something like this before. The main thing is the ability to start a character in different areas with new adventures to explore. I did suggest as well a new area being made that would require a successful completion of a difficult quest in order to enter possibly with one of those movies signaling the entrance to a new part of the game like most good single player games give you. That should sound somewhat familiar. Partially as a joke and partially as an observation of where the state of the game was inevitably going to go I also suggested turbine start selling loot. Also suggested that archers receive a bonus to damage while standing still. So several things I either wanted or expected to see have happened. I really think that your suggestion is one of the few type of suggestions that will be good for the game. The truth is D&D is far more than just a game of combat and numbers. They are horribly missing out on the goldmine of roleplaying and exploration. The mecanics of the game are just that. They are not the be all and end all of D&D. That lies in the story that is unfolding.

Let me describe the kind of D&D experience That I think many would enjoy. I would want a WORLD of Ebberron and the entirety of the Forgotten Realms. The ability to board a spell jammer and travel the immediate space and planets around Ebberron. I would want a real time weather model for each world. Yes it would be that detailed. With that kind of size, depth, and detail. So many options become possible that playing your entire life you would never run out of interesting things to try that have nothing to do with leveling and loot. The result would be a complete removal of grind and casual becomes a completely valid playstyle. I like instanced dungeons and teleporters for fast travel but the limits of the cities and no way to just walk out the front gates and explore. It's like a city in a jar.. There is no rest of the world. I don't expect it to happen but if it did it would truly become a monster of a game. Let's face it. If you could create a virtual world that was a good as science fiction portrays one I wouldn't complain and I doubt anyone else would either. The options you could add in travel alone to the game would add years to the game. Airship travel, mounts, flying mounts, personal spelljammer type of ships like mosquitoes lol what ever. Player Keeps and housing. Look I like sharing an airship but I really like stuff that is MINE. Also would like to be able to actually buy/rent a piece of property in the game. A piece of property that can be seen by everyone. Want to sell me something I want that won't screw up the game. There you go. Give me a mailbox and a storage trunk (Bank access) and I would be golden.

Player reputation. I've been thinking about the grouping and community issues brought up from time. The subject of titles has come up recently and I think there should be a possibility of gaining them. However I would like to see it earned only by players that deserve them. A system where other players can add to your reputation would open up the possibility of gaining a game title. I have no idea how much this would improve the game but I know it took being mostly respectful to the other posters to earn the greens under my name. I'm sure Memnir would do well under this type of system. Even Teh Troll is fun for entertainment so I imagine in game also would do well. You might not have a clue what a joy it would be to gain an actual piece of the game like that, even temporarily. Have the reputation decay a little and they will have to keep up their good work

DDO is an opportunity to bring D&D to life. The more facets you can add that will add depth to the game environment the better it gets. You have the combat and mechanics only and that is great but you have an opportunity to out do every type of game that has ever been.

[Ungood]

The reality is, this was not for me at all.

I have several TR's and I enjoy the feeling of being able to chew though a dungeon with my eyes closed and just destroy stuff, it's why I keep TRing every now and then, as Epic gets stale as it's rather tedium to not be able to chew though it like I can Heroic content.

However, there are a lot of people who enjoy the DnD Setting, more precisely, the Forgotten Realms setting where heros were not wearing +10 Retributive VII Plane Forged Full Plate of Fortification 110%, and are not using +7 Flaming IV Great Axes of Ghostbane IX.

They want to relive the books where the hero has a single named weapon by level 10 while still in mitheral chain, and happy about it.

I would like to say, the fact that some of you are turned off by this setting is exactly what I am looking for, as this is not about fan service to the vets, quite the opposite actually, it's about making the game more appealing to new players that don't want to walk into a world of existing super-players.

[Cardoor]

I would like to say, the fact that some of you are turned off by this setting is exactly what I am looking for, as this is not about fan service to the vets, quite the opposite actually, it's about making the game more appealing to new players that don't want to walk into a world of existing super-players.

I think your suggestions would be better for a new game instead of trying to squeeze them into the current game... it seemed like that much of a leap to me as I read your OP. For example, you suggested that Eberron be the setting for Epic levels, but when nearly every epic level quest is already in the FR, that would be a pretty big change.

Additionally, even though I like the idea of low level FR quests and players having the option of playing either setting, there is currently a somewhat plausible bridge between them. The way you described your idea it sounded more like two seperate games (being able to TR seemed like the only connection).

Ultimately, having the option to self-impose gear limitations or to in contrast use the best items you can slot is better IMHO than imposing one style of gameplay (low magic for example).

DDO already has what it needs to save itself - DnD. When I feel like I am playing DnD, then I am having too much fun to care about my end-game status. I have still never gotten the ingredients to craft the epic Mirror Cloak (which is obviously a very outdated goal), but I love playing the Partycrasher quest because I feel like I am playing DnD.

[Ungood]

In my opinion, I think you have a great starting point for an idea, but you're really dead set on adding a low magic feel to it. That's your choice. I don't really see it gaining any steam that way, but I get that's what you want. Bending the game around a set of low magic rules like that appeals to such a small portion of the player base overall. This is already a niche game with a smallish, diminishing player base. Making content that many will have little interest in (not because the content is bad, but because the rules of the game are altered) is probably not a great money making move. Loot drives this game for many players.

As off the wall crazy as this is going to sound, the intention behind that is to make it less enticing to existing vets that enjoy the Ebberon setting, so they won't bring their 27th life, twinked out the crazy TR junkie toon into this setting, and new players (as well as perhaps some casuals or even players who want less convenience in their setting) can gather, and play a game.

I feel that this would be a good starting point for DDO to try and bring in more fresh blood, or a good introduction point, as a player who is starting the game, can at their choice, opt how they want to approach the game. Do they want to try and run against the 4+ year vets, who are running near god mode builds and gear, or do they want to perahps do level the playing field.

Most games make the mistake of trying to level the playing field by giving the new players a ton of easy to acquire powerful stuff so they can instantly be on par to the existing vets in the game as far as gear goes, this is a horrible mistake, and every game that does it, it never ends well... Never.

But sadly, it seems, that every game can't think to say "Well, what if we level the playing field, but giving them both nothing to start out with?"

DDO has the perfect set up to make this division too, with instance based gaming and dungeons, no one has to deal with anyone else, for anything. So making a setting that is designed around letting the new players learn the game, slow paced gear advancements, I would wager slow paced leveling, as there is no power house builds available, due to limited gear and items, a minimally coherence grouping set up as well.

Think about it, how many times have you thought to get a fiend into playing, but your character was so far more powerful then anything they could make, it made the whole thing be nothing more then them watching you kill everything while they sat on the sidelines, pretty much being bored out of their minds.

This fixes that.

The power gamers would never come to this setting, so you won't have zergers, and super players jumping into some newbs LFM, blitzing their quest, calling them names, and then dropping group telling them to learn to play noob.

Equally so, as a power gamer could tell some newb "Go spend some time playing the FR pre-game before trying to run with the big boys.. noob" you know, before the traditional kicking from the group and squelching them.

The best part is, the FR world would not need to be expanded, it's supposed to be for first life toons, if someone wants to TR there, well they can run the same dozen quests a hundred times to level, that might teach them to stay out.

The time travel/low level in the past concept is pure gold. They could reuse all the current dungeons in FR but lower the levels and populate them with lower level mobs if necessary to provide quests for low level players. Small amounts of tweaking to existing content opens up a world of new low level content. It's not really needed, but if there came a time they wanted to make FR a real 1-20 environment, it would be a good way to start it up.

Exactly!

Most of the content is there already, the forest, the maps, the quest hubs, all of it, built, so, mainly just a change in the monsters and flavor text, remove all the 20+ level gear (Like the PDK, War Wizards, Village Idoits, etc, etc,) stuff from the setting, and just have standard collectible turn in like how Goldskuttle would trade prayer beads for reptilian bane arrows and junk like that.

Instead of Drow, you have Orc's, goblins, hobgoblins, bugbears, drop some standard undead into a few of the other quests, nothing major, just, a neat little revamp of the level of what you are doing and the loot that drops.

In fact, you could even have double quests, like how Old epic worked, you would get FR Era and Ebberon Era quests in the FR setting, as opposed to Epic (as all the new FR quests would be 20+ in Ebberon Setting)

So yah, a lot of re-used content would be a major part of it all.

[Ungood]

I think your suggestions would be better for a new game instead of trying to squeeze them into the current game... it seemed like that much of a leap to me as I read your OP. For example, you suggested that Eberron be the setting for Epic levels, but when nearly every epic level quest is already in the FR, that would be a pretty big change.

Additionally, even though I like the idea of low level FR quests and players having the option of playing either setting, there is currently a somewhat plausible bridge between them. The way you described your idea it sounded more like two seperate games (being able to TR seemed like the only connection).

Ultimately, having the option to self-impose gear limitations or to in contrast use the best items you can slot is better IMHO than imposing one style of gameplay (low magic for example).

DDO already has what it needs to save itself - DnD. When I feel like I am playing DnD, then I am having too much fun to care about my end-game status. I have still never gotten the ingredients to craft the epic Mirror Cloak (which is obviously a very outdated goal), but I love playing the Partycrasher quest because I feel like I am playing DnD.

There are quite a few issues with the idea that would need to be revised and worked out, that is true.

It was more a concept idea, then an absolute.

And I will agree with you, that the times when I feel like I am playing a DnD game as opposed to an MMO, are when I am having the most fun.

[unbongwah]

If you want a low-magic, low-loot DDO campaign, you join a permadeath guild or a static group with a no-vendors / no-twinkage rule. You don't expect the struggling developer of an 8-year-old MMO to cater to your nostalgia for early PnP D&D campaigns.

EDIT: to be a bit less snarky, you may also find what Avalon is doing to recreate 1st ED AD&D interesting.

[katz]

holy frikking ****. a player suggested a major change that doesn't personally benefit himself in any way shape or fashion.


Turbine, give that man a job!

[Fivefinga-Deathpunch]

Cap at lvl30....make ddo2...call it a day.

Possibly option to port chars, fromm ddo to ddo2? Brilliant!

Your welcome.

[Ungood]

If you want a low-magic, low-loot DDO campaign, you join a permadeath guild or a static group with a no-vendors / no-twinkage rule. You don't expect the struggling developer of an 8-year-old MMO to cater to your nostalgia for early PnP D&D campaigns.

EDIT: to be a bit less snarky, you may also find what Avalon is doing to recreate 1st ED AD&D interesting.

While you are being snarky, it means nothing to me personally.

One of the common reoccurring problem that seems to get mentioned of many of the review sites for this game is that new players coming here are being made to feel worthless and inadequate by the vets who can blast through content leaving the new players in the dust, to be left sitting on the sidelines while someone else solo's the quest for them.

While I am sure the vets are not trying to drive away new players, (well, I would like to believe that is not their intention, given how some of them post on this forum, that might be their motive), that does not change the fact that people come to this game to play it, not sit around while someone else plays it and they do little to nothing, or worse, try to do something and get killed, and thus ridiculed, mocked, and belittled by the veteran players.

The core of DDO is a very good game (Buggy, but still very good game), it's fun game, complex character building and about the most engaging PvE of any game I have ever seen on the market, but that means little when you join a group and get left at the zone in by everyone else who is able to faceroll the dungeons running full tilt with 30% striders at level 1.

And, again, in case you missed this the last few times I said it, I am a 4 year vet, if I wanted to play GIMPS and Permadeath, I would have already, that is not my cup of tea, which is why I thought of this idea, it would stop me, and thus, I figured it would stop you, thus seeing you and others like you having such issues with it, means it would do exactly what I hoped it would, and that is, keep all us vets out of it.

It would give new players a new area, they could play in, without needing to compete against the several year old vets, quite frankly if they set this up, this would open the door for them to re-market the game to old school FR PnP vets, who would enjoy a game not tainted by the stink of Ebberon, and not wanting to play a game where they have to run against someone who been playing forever, as well as perhaps some people who might want to return and not need to spend the next several months getting their gear up to speed.

[Ungood]

Cap at lvl30....make ddo2...call it a day.

Possibly option to port chars, fromm ddo to ddo2? Brilliant!

Your welcome.

Oh look, a DDO2 suggestion, well I suppose it has been a month.

[SirValentine]

FR is more monty haul and overpowered than eberron ever dreamed of being...

Yes. I read the original post and wondered if he had some low-magic home-brew campaign that happened to have the same name. Because the official FR is a Monty Haul munchkin paradise.

...not to mention completely and utterly boring and unoriginal.

And that. Eberron, at least, is an interesting & distinct setting.