You say it's too easy, I say it's too hard.

[FranOhmsford]

It seems to me that since the lvl cap increased from 20-25 we've lost something big in Epic Quests promoting grouping.

Back when cap was 20 you heard about people soloing Epic quests often enough on these forums but the default was the 6 man group rather than 2 man IP and maybe we'll get a full group before we complete that it has become.


A possible solution to this {and to the oft heard complaint that Soloing is too easy} would be for the Devs to reverse the Dungeon Scaling of Epic {Only Epic} Quests.

i.e.

In Epic Quests scaling is set to zero for 6 man groups and it goes 6,5,4,3 rather than 1,2,3,4

Hires of course would still count as half or whatever Gold Seals actually count as.

[SirValentine]

Back when cap was 20 you heard about people soloing Epic quests often enough on these forums but the default was the 6 man group rather than 2 man IP and maybe we'll get a full group before we complete that it has become.

A possible solution to this {and to the oft heard complaint that Soloing is too easy} would be for the Devs to reverse the Dungeon Scaling of Epic {Only Epic} Quests.

Back when cap was 20, Epic was a difficulty. Now, Epic just means level 20+. It is NOT a difficulty. Normal should scale as Normal, whether it's Heroic Normal or Epic Normal. Elite should scale as Elite, whether it's Epic Elite, or Heroic Elite.

Now, whether any particular DIFFICULTY is too easy or too hard, and whether that's because of scaling or not, is a separate issue.

[HungarianRhapsody]

It seems to me that since the lvl cap increased from 20-25 we've lost something big in Epic Quests promoting grouping.

Back when cap was 20 you heard about people soloing Epic quests often enough on these forums but the default was the 6 man group rather than 2 man IP and maybe we'll get a full group before we complete that it has become.


A possible solution to this {and to the oft heard complaint that Soloing is too easy} would be for the Devs to reverse the Dungeon Scaling of Epic {Only Epic} Quests.

i.e.

In Epic Quests scaling is set to zero for 6 man groups and it goes 6,5,4,3 rather than 1,2,3,4

Hires of course would still count as half or whatever Gold Seals actually count as.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Are you saying that your suggested version of Dungeon Scaling would increase the HP of enemies and the damage that they deal when there are fewer members in a party?

[FranOhmsford]

Back when cap was 20, Epic was a difficulty. Now, Epic just means level 20+. It is NOT a difficulty. Normal should scale as Normal, whether it's Heroic Normal or Epic Normal. Elite should scale as Elite, whether it's Epic Elite, or Heroic Elite.

Now, whether any particular DIFFICULTY is too easy or too hard, and whether that's because of scaling or not, is a separate issue.

If this was to be put into Heroic as well as Epic there'd be too much of a strain on newbies!

Epic should mean what it used to mean - It should be a difficulty level in it's own right!

And changing scaling round so that a 4-6 man group is virtually required in Epic Elites would do this!
It would also have the added bonus effect that there'd be a bit less stigma attached to running E-Hard or E-Norm.

As an aside - Favour should be taken away from Epic Elites and the other three difficulties could each move up a Tier {Meaning we don't actually lose the Favour!}.
This way the Devs could Add in the Bonus Loot to Epic Elite as an incentive for those who "supposedly" want "challenge" to play it!

Even Better - Reset all Epic Elite Quests as Base Lvl 30 with the E-Norm/E-Hard Base Levels remaining where they are - Lose the XP as it won't be necessary and really go to town on the Loot!
INSTANT END-GAME!

[FranOhmsford]

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Are you saying that your suggested version of Dungeon Scaling would increase the HP of enemies and the damage that they deal when there are fewer members in a party?

Exactly!

i.e. Promoting Grouping at high level play and making certain that each player who joins your party makes the quest that bit easier NOT harder!

[Saekee]

What about a max-level limit instead of just min-level? That would kill favor runs. But it would put more demand on completing levels at level instead of revisiting them at level 28 for a quick zerg (and item farm for future TR). The result might also be more groupings--if you can't do it at level solo like you could at level 28, then group.
But then there are lots more things that can be done to encourage grouping.

[Full_Bleed]

A possible solution to this {and to the oft heard complaint that Soloing is too easy} would be for the Devs to reverse the Dungeon Scaling of Epic {Only Epic} Quests.

i.e.

In Epic Quests scaling is set to zero for 6 man groups and it goes 6,5,4,3 rather than 1,2,3,4

Hires of course would still count as half or whatever Gold Seals actually count as.

I get what you are going for but I would rather see adaptive difficulty explored.

For example, I`d love to see Epic Elite dungeons built for about an 70% success rate with 4 at-level players. Add more players increase chances... take away players and suffer consequences (definitely do not make it easier).

Turbine can see success rates so they can throw out the top 20% and bottom 20% to find what a more accurate adaptive modifier should be for any given dungeon. Static difficulties that are used now do not reflect changes in the game or distortions by gimp and OP builds. There should be an adaptive scale.

We don`t have random dungeons in this game but we certainly could have adaptive difficulty that would keep people on their toes.

[Uska]

I like it and it would also make soloing actually mean something

[dredre9987]

I do not think this would promote grouping...The reason being that what about the folks who don't contribute meaningfully? You will have guild only and channel only runs.

As it stands now I pug EE regularly.

[jalont]

I do not think this would promote grouping...The reason being that what about the folks who don't contribute meaningfully? You will have guild only and channel only runs.

As it stands now I pug EE regularly.

While I think the OPs suggestion is a bit... meh, I don't think this would be a problem. Under their suggestion, dragging a bad player through a quest would be quicker than soloing it. Usually.

[Teh_Troll]

Solution: Get better at DDO.

[redspecter23]

Scaling the dungeon to be harder with fewer players will just alienate players that solo for a variety of reasons. Soloist's are not all people who just plain choose not to group because it's easier. Many times they have family commitments or are short on time and just want to get a few quick runs in. Not to mention trying to get groups going for unpopular quests which will just be even more unpopular when shortmanning them is twice as hard as it is currently.

I'm all for a bit of extra challenge when I want it, but forcing it on soloists will just annoy the soloists. Those who group up won't see any difference as nothing would be scaled for them. I guess my point is that forcing grouping won't work. You may get a few people grouping that otherwise wouldn't have, but I see more soloists just not playing if the scaling is bad enough.

The reason I solo more that group is mainly a time issue. We have a pile of 5-10 minute quests and "filling" a group often takes that long or longer. Don't make me waste time filling instead of playing.

[Wanesa]

IMHO dungeon scaling should be turned off complete in Elite difficult. Elite difficult should be scalled to 4-6 members party (always). It is wierd to solo on Elite.

[Miow]

Man i decided to run Von1 on epic hard with my fresh level 20 melee. Man instant orange dungeon alert on all the waves got the third wave before i died, so many mobs like a dozen casters to boot next waves starting before everything died. It felt harder than some EE quests, not sure what they did there but i don't think it's wai.