Physical Resistance Rating Vs. Dodge Chance

[bennyson]

I have a question that am hoping some serious answers can help solve (Am not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but it IS about PRR and Dodge)

My question is, how does Physical Resistance Rating (physical damage reducer) compare to Dodge (complete damage avoidance)

A few things that I know about PRR is that is reduces the amount of physical damage a character takes, while Dodge allows a character to completely avoid damage all together. There are also some other things about what I kind of know how PRR and Dodge work with cloths and armor.

Robes/outfits: No PRR, High Dodge

Light Armor: Some PRR, Less Dodge

Medium Armor: More PRR, Lower Dodge

Heavy Armor: High PRR, Really low Dodge

I've also seen a lot of good builds around the forums as well, but they wear either Light or no armor at all, I never even see a DPS type build that relays on high Physical Resistance Rating. So some friendly DDO forumer help would be nice.

[redspecter23]

I have a question that am hoping some serious answers can help solve (Am not sure if this is the right place for this thread, but it IS about PRR and Dodge)

My question is, how does Physical Resistance Rating (physical damage reducer) compare to Dodge (complete damage avoidance)

A few things that I know about PRR is that is reduces the amount of physical damage a character takes, while Dodge allows a character to completely avoid damage all together. There are also some other things about what I kind of know how PRR and Dodge work with cloths and armor.

Robes/outfits: No PRR, High Dodge

Light Armor: Some PRR, Less Dodge

Medium Armor: More PRR, Lower Dodge

Heavy Armor: High PRR, Really low Dodge

I've also seen a lot of good builds around the forums as well, but they wear either Light or no armor at all, I never even see a DPS type build that relays on high Physical Resistance Rating. So some friendly DDO forumer help would be nice.

The thing I think you're missing is that while your armor itself provides some PRR, the majority of the PRR one has comes from other sources. Someone in an outfit that provides no PRR itself could have 50 or more PRR easily. Someone in heavy armor with some PRR built in will have great difficulty getting his dodge cap much higher than 10. Add in the lack of evasion in medium and higher armor and you have robe wearers losing very little for their gains. Given the choice, most players would lose 20 PRR in order to gain 15 or more dodge and evasion (as well as extra feats and critical multiplier if monk).

Short version, there is much more to PRR than what armor provides.

[sebastianosmith]

My question is, how does Physical Resistance Rating (physical damage reducer) compare to Dodge (complete damage avoidance)

I'm not sure I understand the question, but here goes some simple maths...

Let's say you're standing around letting a giant beat on you for 100 HP per hit. If you have about... 48 PRR, you'll be taking around 25% less damage on each hit. If you have a 25% dodge chance, you'll take no damage one out of four blows. Adding that up over 100 giant swings and you end up with 7500 HP in damage no matter which way you go and probably be a greasy spot long before it's done.

Both are damage mitigation mechanisms. The biggest difference between them is that Dodge is calculated on a linear scale while PRR is based on an exponential scale. Being exponentially calculated, PRR reaches a point of diminishing returns the higher it goes whereas Dodge can, for short periods of time, reach almost full mitigation.

A direct comparison of the two in a vacuum is not really possible. They are quite different in terms of when they are applied in the attack chain and the sources where one may acquire them. One also has to consider AC, incorporealness, blurring, displacement and so forth. It's all about balancing these mechanisms to achieve the best results. One is not better than another unless that's the only one you can get to a reasonable level.

Does that come close to answering your question?

[unbongwah]

Something to remember about PRR is there are multiple sources of it; in fact in the long run the armor you wear is the least important consideration.

[Enoach]

Dodge has a soft cap of 25% - This can be exceeded but requires specific abilities to do so.

PRR however determines how much physical damage you take if you are actually hit.

Which is actually better Dodge or PRR would really depend on how much damage one takes vs how much with a lower PRR and Higher dodge.

Now below I'm going to ignore AC and assume only PRR and Dodge matter:

Swings: 10
Average Damage Per Swing: 350

Heavy Armor
PRR: 150 (49.39% damage taken per swing)
Dodge: 5% (Depending on Race/Classes/Feats/Gear etc I have gotten up to 12% in Heavy Armor)

Total Damage: 1,643 (rounded up)

No Armor
PRR: 50 (25.67% damage taken per swing)
Dodge: 25% (Depending on Race/Classes/Feats/Gear this can exceed the soft 25%)

Total Damage: 1,874 (rounded up)


So with that, the difference is 231 HP or 23.1 HP per swing

Now if the factor of the Average Damage Amount goes up it will start to favor PRR.

Now of course none of this considers the fact of not being able to survive the number of hits, such as how fast those hits come in - which would favor Dodge for getting out of the way.

-------------------------------
Now the underlying problem with PRR is that the investment is not a flat 1 for 1, the higher your PRR the more points of PRR needed to raise a single percent. Dodge on the other hand is a 1 for 1 investment, for every point of Dodge you get 1% chance of not getting hit.

For Heavy armor users the goal is to strike a balance between available dodge and PRR and adjust between extra dodge or extra PRR

[TeacherSyn]

Dodge has a soft cap of 25% - This can be exceeded but requires specific abilities to do so.

PRR however determines how much physical damage you take if you are actually hit.

Which is actually better Dodge or PRR would really depend on how much damage one takes vs how much with a lower PRR and Higher dodge.

Now below I'm going to ignore AC and assume only PRR and Dodge matter:

Swings: 10
Average Damage Per Swing: 350

Heavy Armor
PRR: 150 (49.39% damage taken per swing)
Dodge: 5% (Depending on Race/Classes/Feats/Gear etc I have gotten up to 12% in Heavy Armor)

Total Damage: 1,643 (rounded up)

No Armor
PRR: 50 (25.67% damage taken per swing)
Dodge: 25% (Depending on Race/Classes/Feats/Gear this can exceed the soft 25%)

Total Damage: 1,874 (rounded up)


So with that, the difference is 231 HP or 23.1 HP per swing

Now if the factor of the Average Damage Amount goes up it will start to favor PRR.

Now of course none of this considers the fact of not being able to survive the number of hits, such as how fast those hits come in - which would favor Dodge for getting out of the way.

-------------------------------
Now the underlying problem with PRR is that the investment is not a flat 1 for 1, the higher your PRR the more points of PRR needed to raise a single percent. Dodge on the other hand is a 1 for 1 investment, for every point of Dodge you get 1% chance of not getting hit.

For Heavy armor users the goal is to strike a balance between available dodge and PRR and adjust between extra dodge or extra PRR

And let's not forget other miss-chance properties that decrease getting hit at all even further. When Dodge, Incorporeality, Concealment are combined with AC and PRR, you have pretty solid defenses against most things.

[Stormraiser]

There are also a few other things to consider.

1) DR and PRR work better together.
2) Other sources of miss chance like blur and displacement make dodge less efficient.
3) Consider case A, where you get hit for 100, dodge, get hit for 100, dodge that is 200 damage. And now consider case B, 50% prr. You take 50 damage, 50 damage, 50 damage, 50 damage for a total of 200 damage. These cases are very different! If you have 180 HP, you could die in 2 hits in case A, but will die in 4 hits in case B. Case B gives more cushion for healing. Aura healing or steady healing over time favors case B. With 180 HP, if 4 enemies surround you and swing at once, case A could survive, but case B will always die.
4) As better items come out, increased PRR from better armor or items will giving diminishingly less and less increase.

As always in maximizing problems, the answer is BOTH in proportion equal to their cost!

Stormraiser

[LiquidZombie]

2) Other sources of miss chance like blur and displacement make dodge less efficient.

No they don't. Blur/displacement, incorporeality and dodge are entirely independent miss chances which multiply together. If you have 10% dodge you will continue to dodge 10% of the attacks which make it through the other miss chance rolls.

[Stormraiser]

No they don't. Blur/displacement, incorporeality and dodge are entirely independent miss chances which multiply together. If you have 10% dodge you will continue to dodge 10% of the attacks which make it through the other miss chance rolls.

Say your dodge is 10%

Out of 100 attacks, you avoid 10.

Displacement 50% miss chance.

Out of 100 attacks, you avoid 50.

Displacement and dodge.
Out of 100 attacks, you avoid 50 and then you avoid 5 more. So in total out of 100 attacks, you avoid 55 attacks.

Displacement and incorp 25% and dodge 10%
100 attacks, 50 hits after displacement, 37.5 after incorp 33.75 after dodge.
If you add the dodge feat 3% in, you get hit 32.73% of the time.

That's all I meant. If I have access to displacement, my perceived benefit from squeezing a little more dodge is a lower return then if I add more PRR. 10% dodge will always dodge 10% of the remaining attacks that make it past your prior line of defense.

Stormraiser

[SirValentine]

Other sources of miss chance like blur and displacement make dodge less efficient.

Very misleading to be in this thread. Other sources of miss chance make PRR equally less efficient, too.

[Tscheuss]

Displacement and incorp and dodge mean three more rolls to see whether you even get hit. More misses means more time to get off a heal, drink a pot, or just move.

[aristarchus1000]

Say your dodge is 10%

Out of 100 attacks, you avoid 10.

Displacement 50% miss chance.

Out of 100 attacks, you avoid 50.

Displacement and dodge.
Out of 100 attacks, you avoid 50 and then you avoid 5 more. So in total out of 100 attacks, you avoid 55 attacks.

Displacement and incorp 25% and dodge 10%
100 attacks, 50 hits after displacement, 37.5 after incorp 33.75 after dodge.
If you add the dodge feat 3% in, you get hit 32.73% of the time.

That's all I meant. If I have access to displacement, my perceived benefit from squeezing a little more dodge is a lower return then if I add more PRR. 10% dodge will always dodge 10% of the remaining attacks that make it past your prior line of defense.

Stormraiser

In both cases, having 10% dodge allows you to survive approximately 10% longer. The abilities are multiplicative and associative.