New Raids Too Easy

[Teh_Troll]

I would say, from what I had seen, based on how I play on live versus what I had on Lam, the balance was pretty good on Normal. It wasn't crushed, but it was beatable. Not easily beatable, but beatable. I see a lot of players having issues with it. And as said earlier in this thread, people still fail EN FoT. Not everyone is an uber gamer. The balance has to go down far enough for those players and up high enough for the super awesome uber players.

Let the common gamers eat cake.

[Teh_Troll]

Look at CitW, no body runs it on EE. Everybody says it's because of the loot, but once in a while someone will admit it's because of what happens to blue bars in the raid.

.

Wait . . . WHO DOESN'T say it's because of that insanely ******** SP drain mechanic?

[twigzz]

Let the common gamers eat cake.

And let the elitists eat.....?

[Teh_Troll]

And let the elitists eat.....?

Halflings.

[Qhualor]

Man, that will always be the case. Every time. A few weeks is good, it is actually the maximum time I'd give it a try. How long do you want to practise? A year? 2? Forever?

practice? a raid should be tough to beat. elite players beating it in one day and taking 1 week for the average player is an easy raid. after a few weeks it becomes the norm with an almost no fail. the way raids are so easily beaten, it will never change challenging even the elite players.

[Teh_Troll]

practice? a raid should be tough to beat. elite players beating it in one day and taking 1 week for the average player is an easy raid. after a few weeks it becomes the norm with an almost no fail. the way raids are so easily beaten, it will never change challenging even the elite players.

Dude . . . top players have beaten every raid on day one on the highest difficulty level for as long as I've been playing this game.

Unlimited Spell points goes a long way.

[Qhualor]

Boy, I love the smell of whining in the morning.


It's not hard enough blah blah blah.

If they were to add in an element that was to make stuff hard to complete for the best and most experienced of gamers, they would then come back to the forums crying about how the game is too hard.

Look at CitW, no body runs it on EE. Everybody says it's because of the loot, but once in a while someone will admit it's because of what happens to blue bars in the raid.

I keep seeing references to a normal run.

Post up the results of a EH or EE run and then we can discuss if it's too hard or too easy.

its because of the way players in this game are. minimal risk for completion and decent rewards. every raid is mostly run on norm/hard, including Shroud. to get players to run raids that actually challenge them, the rewards have to be better. the problem with that is people will complain about failing and that less experienced players aren't able to get better loot like the better skilled players are able to get.

[Qhualor]

Dude . . . top players have beaten every raid on day one on the highest difficulty level for as long as I've been playing this game.

Unlimited Spell points goes a long way.

yes. thank you for agreeing with me?

[Teh_Troll]

its because of the way players in this game are. minimal risk for completion and decent rewards. every raid is mostly run on norm/hard, including Shroud. to get players to run raids that actually challenge them, the rewards have to be better. the problem with that is people will complain about failing and that less experienced players aren't able to get better loot like the better skilled players are able to get.

The less skilled players should get skill first, then loot.

If they really need skill they should sign up for my "How to not be terrible at DDO" course. My rates are reasonable.

[Teh_Troll]

yes. thank you for agreeing with me?

I would rather they nerf SP pots then add all the dumb garbage they've been adding recently to create artificial challenge.

[slarden]

Cool. Council says too easy, yells in the forum, people jump on the bandwagon and other players like me fear that this might have an impact against my own favor.

OP, please elaborate, why it is too easy. A completion after the 1st try may be totally fine as to the degree of success. As Shorlong's copied picture shows. I consider 93 deaths a total challenge. Completion back and forth but if it looked similar to that copied box, the challenge is quite high.

If you had 0 deaths and all bonuses however, that was a different story. But you do nothing but yelling an absolute and subjective impression. Thank you Turbine for selecting people like the OP into an influential position.

There has been one screen shot provided so far on EN with 93 deaths. If people think it is too easy they should provide videos/screen shots and show us your character sheet as part of the video so we can if any "bugs" are being used. Then the devs have meaningful information to work with.

Maybe the answer isn't make the raid harder. Maybe the answer is to correct some design mistakes that resulted in a few very overpowered builds and fix some "bugs" that can provide a tremendous advantage to certain builds.

Videos that include showing character sheet, ED, enh, etc. are about the only way to see if it is being completed using techniques that are WAI.

[DakDeFrosted]

Am I the only one that finds the use of the word "slacker" to describe a person who doesn't spend a great deal of time playing DDO ironic?

"Power gamers" obviously aren't slackers, they spend incredible amounts of time idly accomplishing trivial feats in a virtual world. You're such a noob.

[slarden]

I would rather they nerf SP pots then add all the dumb garbage they've been adding recently to create artificial challenge.

The most OP builds right now don't depend on SP pots.

I ran 6 EE FOT yesterday thanks to raid timers:

1 3-man
1 4-man
1 5-man
2 6-man
1 9-man

Ironically in the order listed above. They were all successes - we did voluntarily restart after 2 people died almost immediately in the 4-man once but it wasn't a wipe and we probably didn't even need to restart. I used 3 SP pots in the first 5 raids and received 4 pots from chests (it is possible someone passed me) - they lasted anywhere from 22-28 minutes each. The last raid had 5 melees, 2 ranged and 2 clerics - no casters. All solid players but new to EE FOT. It took 82 minutes and was somewhat questionable whether it would be a success. I used up my entire 20 charges from my mnemonic trinket and 22 pots. Most of the times when there were deaths there was nothing we can do about it. A few times we technically had time but for one reason or another just couldn't get them in time so dps was light due alot of people on timer. The healing requirements were huge - the melees were taking damage non-stop and nobody could tank the SR without dying. I ended up kiting him around in a small range while the rest of the group worked on truth.

I don't know how many pots the other cleric used but I am guessing about the same. This is a record # of pots used for me, but in this case the fate of the raid was likely in the hand of the 2 healers and we were both willing to make it happen. While I don't like that pots are abused to complete content, the fact is that the cleric is the only character I have that binges occasionally and I probably average getting 4-5 per day and on most days use 0.

So my pot usage was a little for DPS but mostly helping the party. I used about 15 my first EE What goes up. I normally use 0 pots but sometimes use a bunch. Overall I still have over 200 banked which means I am getting more in drops than I use. I have about 50 mediums for more trinkets and none were dup'd. So while I agree with your point on pot usage, I feel I should be able to use what I earned how I see fit. Whether it's 40 in one quest out of 40 or 1 per quest in 40 quests shouldn't make a difference.

I realize this last FOT only succeeded because of pots, but for most of those folks it was their first EE FOT and I wanted to use the pots. So did the other cleric. This was a learning experience I suspect the next EE FOT with that group will go much better. I would rather use 40 pots once so they at least walk away with a tough success rather than having them give up and never do it again. If every time is like this - no way would I continue using that many pots. But this one time - sure - but we'll make sure we plan differently next time. I'll do it with the new raids the first few times also I am sure and then we will get better @ it.

[Eth]

I think the devs did a good job so far to increase difficult by quest mechanics, lots of good new (punishing) stuff in that raid.
Well, mobs HP are still bloated on EE though, lol...

From what we've seen yesterday all the cheese is removed now, too:
- end fight perch spots
- trash 'parking' spots in mirror puzzle rooms
- killing a phylactery through energy barriers without solving the puzzle

[Knight_slayer]

Peoples opinions of a raids difficulty are meaningless if they have never been in that raid on the difficulty they are commenting on. Which seems to be a lot of the posters in this thread.

[xTethx]

I think the raid is perfectly fine on epic elite. Never completed it fully on epic elite, but did about 10 runs (7 norm 3 hard), and those seemed fine as well. Still to be said, it will be beaten on ee day one easy and 2 manned/solo (if you are really dedicated) as well.

Do I think that the raid is hard? Not hard, but varying. Can it be made harder? Sure. Does it need to be made harder? Nope, unless elite is made harder by forcing all puzzles to be completed.