Rapier Vs Kukri/Dagger

[TheBlueFox]

So, my old rogue is a dual rapier user, and I absolutely love it. There were so many GOOD Rapiers for rogues, and the ones you could craft were pretty good too like the elemental rapier of air. But now I see with the new assassin tree there's some decent things to be had with Kukris and daggers...

First off, utilizing dual rapiers requires Weapon Finesse and Oversized TWF, 2 feats. Using Dual Kukris or daggers does not. You no longer need weapon finesse to use your dexterity for both attack AND damage with them.

A rapier does 1d6 to a Kukri and daggers 1d4? I can't check right now but I believe thats so, and it has a 18-20 crit range. With the assassin trees a Kukri and dagger will share that, but where a Rapier has a x2 crit the kukri and dagger will have x3 and +1 damage before crits?

Still, a good 80-90% of a rogue's damage is sneak attack, something that won't change with weapon choices.

So, with the freedom of 2 feats, what would I take in their place I wonder...

Are there even any good legendary Daggers or Kukris? To be honest I've not even checked, I do remember ONE really good Kukri that added int to damage and I think increased the DC of assassinate a while back.

Are Daggers/Kukris viable

[Trillea]

So, my old rogue is a dual rapier user, and I absolutely love it. There were so many GOOD Rapiers for rogues, and the ones you could craft were pretty good too like the elemental rapier of air. But now I see with the new assassin tree there's some decent things to be had with Kukris and daggers...

First off, utilizing dual rapiers requires Weapon Finesse and Oversized TWF, 2 feats. Using Dual Kukris or daggers does not. You no longer need weapon finesse to use your dexterity for both attack AND damage with them.

A rapier does 1d6 to a Kukri and daggers 1d4? I can't check right now but I believe thats so, and it has a 18-20 crit range. With the assassin trees a Kukri and dagger will share that, but where a Rapier has a x2 crit the kukri and dagger will have x3 and +1 damage before crits?

Still, a good 80-90% of a rogue's damage is sneak attack, something that won't change with weapon choices.

So, with the freedom of 2 feats, what would I take in their place I wonder...

Are there even any good legendary Daggers or Kukris? To be honest I've not even checked, I do remember ONE really good Kukri that added int to damage and I think increased the DC of assassinate a while back.

Are Daggers/Kukris viable

Yes, they are absolutely viable. The kukri you are thinking of is the Epic Midnight Greetings.

As for other daggers, some good ones are:
Sacrificial Dagger
Agony, the Knife in the Dark
Fell Shiv
Blade of the High Priestess

Kukris:
besides the Midnight Greetings, nothing really worth mentioning at epic levels.

[TheBlueFox]

Hmm, I wonder if I should switch then... Or not.

See, I already have rapier sets for Smiters, Disruptors, Alignment breakers, DR breakers, and of course my DPS sets. Not, really the best stuff, its a greensteel radiance and an elemental rapier of air max upgraded. Still its pretty freakin good. (though I think I swapped the greensteel out for something else... can't remember I'll check later)

To get all that in kukri/Dagger form could take a while...But it DOES free up feats, and I'd dare say Kuk/Dag is probably less expensive on the Auction house

[rimble]

To get all that in kukri/Dagger form could take a while...But it DOES free up feats, and I'd dare say Kuk/Dag is probably less expensive on the Auction house

If freeing up Feats is your goal, you don't need OTWF, so you can already consider what to do with that Feat without having to stop using Rapiers.

[unbongwah]

If it makes you feel better about sticking with rapiers, Balizarde is still the single best 1H weapon. A pair of Balizardes or Balizarde+Agony would be a nice combo; and since they're both keen, you could drop IC:Pierce once you had them (presuming you used no other weapons in epics).

[CThruTheEgo]

If it makes you feel better about sticking with rapiers, Balizarde is still the single best 1H weapon.

For an assassin with knife specialization, Agony pulls ahead of Balizarde. It ends up with the same crit profile but has higher base damage as well as more damage procs. But since the vast majority of a an assassin's dps comes from sneak attacks, the difference will be a small percentage. Assassin's can fight with a wet noodle and still be lethal.

@OP: If you're looking to maximize your dps, then you will want to make the switch to daggers/kukris. Agony + Epic Midnight Greetings (EMG) is currently the ideal combo. With the new raids we will be getting a necklace that provides +4 to assassinate DC, which will negate the greatest benefit of EMG since it is actually a poor dps choice in comparison to other options. With the necklace, dual Agonies will be the optimal choice.

[TheBlueFox]

Im just trying to weigh my options.

It would free up 2 feats, granted one of them is weapon finesse, so what I could swap that out for is limited by the fact I took it at level 3 so its gotta be something like... skill focus UMD? something useful but something I don't already have...power attack? Maybe.

I like OTWF for its negation of penalties, +hit is pretty important with the high ac mobs. I do enjoy stabbing things and landing hits. I can't remember if I hit on a 2 for epic content.

[Linvak]

Im just trying to weigh my options.

It would free up 2 feats, granted one of them is weapon finesse, so what I could swap that out for is limited by the fact I took it at level 3 so its gotta be something like... skill focus UMD? something useful but something I don't already have...power attack? Maybe.

I like OTWF for its negation of penalties, +hit is pretty important with the high ac mobs. I do enjoy stabbing things and landing hits. I can't remember if I hit on a 2 for epic content.

I just tr'd my rogue for the 4th time and he's almost 22 after about a month. I dual rad 2 rapiers without oversized and never had trouble hitting. I just did some epics last night and the hitting was just fine. You get so many bonuses to hit when getting sa.

I would suggest dumping oversized but holding onto wf until ur doing epics and get your gear. And even then I don't know if I'd give it up. There are some nice epic short swords aswell.