Why are so many leaving the game?

[MoonRunner]

Simple. This is an MMO but the elitists have *****ed and moaned enough that the devs lubed the squeaky wheel. Because of the divine power blessed among the 20 elitists per server and their godly like gaming ability that exceeds most of the rest of us, they get on the forum and ***** and moan about almost everything in the game to a point that the devs have made this a game catered to them.

Now it seems to be considered a competent player one must be totally self sufficient. My barbarian is expected to get traps, cc and self heal all while dealing out a mass amount of damage. Clerics and favored souls get insulted if you expect them to act as a healer. Rangers are expected to have all their arcane archer imbuement’s running at once and so are the monk druids with their bugged wraps. Oh but wait we are not supposed to say that out loud are we. Basically if you can’t solo the whole game you are considered gimp.

This is completely contradictive of what Dungeons and Dragons is all about. D&D is a SOCIAL game. It was made for a group to get together and work as a team. Add that to the fact that this video game is classified as an MMO but not a PvP based MMO then the only guide for success is to design the game for groups not for soloing. In fact people should be punished for soloing a dungeon. If you solo something on EE good for you here’s you cookie, but your loot tables should suffer greatly. How about this. If you have heal and cure spells and don’t cast them on others your loot tables drop. These are the types of things turbine should be considering.

This could go on but I know it is in vein. To keep the game alive Turbine needs to cater the game to people like me. The thing about people like me is we would rather spend our free time playing the game not spending hours on the forums trying to META game every aspect of the game. That is why my opinions will most likely be disregarded as a minority. That may be true for those who are regular posters on the forums but most people don’t even participate in the forums as much as I do which as you can see by my post count isn’t a whole lot since I started in 2009. So I write this for the devs (the few who haven’t been laid off) maybe you can cater to the people you have lost by lubing the squeaky wheel and keep your jobs. If you do get laid off and had anything to do with the decision as to the direction this game has gone please do not apply for jobs at CD Projekt Red, Bethesda or Zenimax as I don’t want their games ruined too.

This is supposed to be a game for enjoyment. It has turned into a job.

[Hoglum]

Who expected your Barbarian to get traps?

[Teh_Troll]

Show me on the doll where the bad power-gamer touched you.

[Miow]

Who expected your Barbarian to get traps?

maybe he had a couple rge levels for evasion

[die]

IBFL, and Butters the pop corn

[zeonardo]

Clerics and favored souls get insulted if you expect them to act as a healer.

As long as they hjeal Teh Troll they are fine.

Jokes apart, I feel your pain, OP.
Been playing since U3 and it's sad to see this game that I like so much, derail to be a group of 6/12 people soloing a quest together, competing for absolute excelence and punishing anything less than that with grief.

The saddest part is knowing that it will NEVER ever get back to the type of game that it was. What brought us in is not here anymore to keep us in.
It leaves us with only two options: 1-Adapt or 2-Abandon.

I'm (really really) trying option 1 and I trully hope you can find a spark deep within you (and all other people like you) to opt for 1 too.
In the unfortunate case that you opt for 2... well...

Dibs!

Best luck.

[Teh_Troll]

IBFL, and Butters the pop corn

Not sure this is heated enough for that. Yet . . .

What the OP is saying goes along the lines of a believe that I've had since I was a helpless n00b as well . . . play with your peers. You will have the most fun this way.

If you're a BYOH zergin vet, stick to your kind. If you are a nub, there are difficulties below elite . . . they exist for you. Run with other nubs. Nubs can't keep up with vets, and it is selfish of the nubs to expect the vets to slow down for you. yes . . . the nub is the one being the jerk in that situation.

if you can't self-heal or avoid traps that's fine. But if you expect me to wait for your life-support system to join the group you are the one being selfish.

Though I agree with you divines should hjeal, it's their job.

[danotmano1998]

Now it seems to be considered a competent player one must be totally self sufficient. My barbarian is expected to get traps, cc and self heal all while dealing out a mass amount of damage. Clerics and favored souls get insulted if you expect them to act as a healer. Rangers are expected to have all their arcane archer imbuement’s running at once and so are the monk druids with their bugged wraps. Oh but wait we are not supposed to say that out loud are we. Basically if you can’t solo the whole game you are considered gimp.

I do not see this attitude much on Thelanis pugs.
Maybe I'm lucky ?

Out of the 50 or so pugs I have ran this current life, I have run across exactly ONE "bad" one ran by a guy I didn't agree with.
I completed the quest and got on with having fun playing the game.

I've played for years now and I'm still having fun, helping new people when I meet them.
Just last week I held together a pug that the leader had decided was sub-par and quit. We regrouped and for the first time, 3 of the people in that group completed elite Running with the Devils. They were ecstatic. It felt like old D&D again.


So my point is, OP, that yes there are people who aren't fun to play with. But they are not the only people playing. Try to emulate the behavior that you want and more folks will end up appreciating it. They might even pay it forward. I did.
(Thanks to all the Solid guild. Shout out paying respects.)

[Bowser_Koopa]

Not sure this is heated enough for that. Yet . . .

What the OP is saying goes along the lines of a believe that I've had since I was a helpless n00b as well . . . play with your peers. You will have the most fun this way.

If you're a BYOH zergin vet, stick to your kind. If you are a nub, there are difficulties below elite . . . they exist for you. Run with other nubs. Nubs can't keep up with vets, and it is selfish of the nubs to expect the vets to slow down for you. yes . . . the nub is the one being the jerk in that situation.

if you can't self-heal or avoid traps that's fine. But if you expect me to wait for your life-support system to join the group you are the one being selfish.

Though I agree with you divines should hjeal, it's their job.

You know for once I 95% agree with Teh_Troll other than the last part about divines, they simply should never heal him his natural state is a soul stone and everyone knows that.

As to the OP thank you for being number 234,565,983 on the forums to have this wonderful fantasy that somehow the "20" elitist (whatever that word means) have ruined the game. I'm sorry you haven't found people of a like mind to run with but just because you don't fit in with the "solo builds in a group" crowd don't come here and blame us for ruining the game. What's ruining the game for me is the lack of a fun end game and the lack of raid trains. If U21 was the 2 raids and they went back and raised all other raids to level 30 with appropriate gear and challenge, and then made a high end raid where all that grinding for 1 more ac or 1 more dc or 30 more hp's was really needed and the challenge was back with a vengence I'd be back on DDO. I don' t think they'll do this but I hope maybe they will. Raid trains when Von 5/6 went "epic" and the DQ went epic and we ran a series of raids every night was the best time of the game for me. But I don't blame the lack of my vision of how the game should be on the "noobs" or whatever they are calling themselves today.

So in closing let Teh_Troll die in quests, and find your own circle of friends in a guild/channel or however you do it and stop blaming the other "groups" or "playstyles" for your inability to do so.

Bowserkoopa,

I blame plumbers for making people thing that jumping and landing on tiny platforms while dodging obstacles is fun

[dunklezhan]

Y'know. There's a lot of threads like this. I don't like the way x type of player plays, y group of haters mean you have to play this way... I mean there's a lot. So there must be a decent sized group of people who feel this way.

It's such a shame! If only there was a way around this. If only there was a way for like minded players to get together and play in a way they enjoyed! If only there was some way... why, wait just a cotton pickin' minute here!

/sarcasm off.

Seriously, pick a server and start a guild. Advertise it here, with all the conditions or non-conditions you want. Play with people who play like you... and all will be well. Even when you can't form a full group of guildies, having just one or two folks in a pug on your side makes things go much more easily anyway if you get a *&%&*(^ in the PuG.

Better yet, come apply to join join Thieves Guild on Argo. I never hear anyone saying anything about how you have to play, unless it's "dont' be an !"£ when you're in a PuG" or "please try and keep one character in epic levels if you can so we can all play together from time to time without gimping XP/breaking streaks" (which is a request more or less obeyed. Less, by certain members of the group. Mark.).

And we're doing fine. And a couple of us are elite players (not me), some are on the way to elite (not me), and the rest of us are complete casual noobbags (yo!). And we all enjoy playing together. Fancy that. Guildies, getting along. We'd love some more US-side players for instance, we appear to have become a mostly euro oriented guild and it was nice when we operated 24-7. if not us, apply to married with children, or fors fortis, one of a number of other long standing guilds on argo full of awesome chilled out people.

You all stress way too much.

[mobrien316]

Simple. This is an MMO but the elitists have *****ed and moaned enough that the devs lubed the squeaky wheel. Because of the divine power blessed among the 20 elitists per server and their godly like gaming ability that exceeds most of the rest of us, they get on the forum and ***** and moan about almost everything in the game to a point that the devs have made this a game catered to them.

Now it seems to be considered a competent player one must be totally self sufficient. My barbarian is expected to get traps, cc and self heal all while dealing out a mass amount of damage. Clerics and favored souls get insulted if you expect them to act as a healer. Rangers are expected to have all their arcane archer imbuement’s running at once and so are the monk druids with their bugged wraps. Oh but wait we are not supposed to say that out loud are we. Basically if you can’t solo the whole game you are considered gimp.

This is completely contradictive of what Dungeons and Dragons is all about. D&D is a SOCIAL game. It was made for a group to get together and work as a team. Add that to the fact that this video game is classified as an MMO but not a PvP based MMO then the only guide for success is to design the game for groups not for soloing. In fact people should be punished for soloing a dungeon. If you solo something on EE good for you here’s you cookie, but your loot tables should suffer greatly. How about this. If you have heal and cure spells and don’t cast them on others your loot tables drop. These are the types of things turbine should be considering.

This could go on but I know it is in vein. To keep the game alive Turbine needs to cater the game to people like me. The thing about people like me is we would rather spend our free time playing the game not spending hours on the forums trying to META game every aspect of the game. That is why my opinions will most likely be disregarded as a minority. That may be true for those who are regular posters on the forums but most people don’t even participate in the forums as much as I do which as you can see by my post count isn’t a whole lot since I started in 2009. So I write this for the devs (the few who haven’t been laid off) maybe you can cater to the people you have lost by lubing the squeaky wheel and keep your jobs. If you do get laid off and had anything to do with the decision as to the direction this game has gone please do not apply for jobs at CD Projekt Red, Bethesda or Zenimax as I don’t want their games ruined too.

This is supposed to be a game for enjoyment. It has turned into a job.

You are only expected to be a completely self-sufficient, mathematically-optimized DPS'er if you group with the people who think anything less that their idea of a perfect build with perfect gear is "gimp."


There are still plenty of people who play the game by accepting the first five or eleven who hit their LFM and who don't care about your build or your gear and who will be perfectly happy to group with you unless you are a rude d-bag.

[Teh_Troll]

You know for once I 95% agree with Teh_Troll other than the last part about divines, they simply should never heal him his natural state is a soul stone and everyone knows that.

As to the OP thank you for being number 234,565,983 on the forums to have this wonderful fantasy that somehow the "20" elitist (whatever that word means) have ruined the game. I'm sorry you haven't found people of a like mind to run with but just because you don't fit in with the "solo builds in a group" crowd don't come here and blame us for ruining the game. What's ruining the game for me is the lack of a fun end game and the lack of raid trains. If U21 was the 2 raids and they went back and raised all other raids to level 30 with appropriate gear and challenge, and then made a high end raid where all that grinding for 1 more ac or 1 more dc or 30 more hp's was really needed and the challenge was back with a vengence I'd be back on DDO. I don' t think they'll do this but I hope maybe they will. Raid trains when Von 5/6 went "epic" and the DQ went epic and we ran a series of raids every night was the best time of the game for me. But I don't blame the lack of my vision of how the game should be on the "noobs" or whatever they are calling themselves today.

So in closing let Teh_Troll die in quests, and find your own circle of friends in a guild/channel or however you do it and stop blaming the other "groups" or "playstyles" for your inability to do so.

Bowserkoopa,

I blame plumbers for making people thing that jumping and landing on tiny platforms while dodging obstacles is fun

Since your gone can I haz your stuffs?

[avepepix]

OP i agree with you in soul, but its not posible.

In PnP the master can punish a divine for not help another player. But here? It will be nice if the devs put a xp plus if you have a full party, but everyone can play like he/she wants. The devs can do nothing if a cleric dont hjeal u.

I know people to play in a way "Im better than you ña ña ña P" but i Know people to play in "Let me help you" In that case its a matter of luck

Im one that never find a pug to play, i cant see more than 5 lfm when i log in. Im forced to play with my only toon that can solo, and with the others forced to not play some quest, because i died in horrible ways even with a hire.
I know and i think that its a /#*$. I still remember to get a full party and someone say the way the quest must be done, and everyone help another. Today its more rare to see that, but not imposible.

If you dont know nobody, its more dificult, i wont say you are doomed, but you have to have patience in the general chat ingame. Or can join in the guild of someone here.

[jalont]

I would agree with you, except for the fact that you can always build a self sufficient toon. If you choose not to, then you choose not to. People that build toons that aren't self sufficient have decided that it's more fun to run around and have other people take care of them. This is all fine and good. If that's your thing, then that's your thing. But the problem is that you also have to convince others to actually follow you around and take care of you. This isn't something that is really fun, so you're going to have a bad time when these people don't exist.

[zwiebelring]

When the Rog heals, the Bar searches for traps, the Ftr dances, divines dps and the Wiz pikes you know there is pure freedom of choice. XD

[mobrien316]

I would agree with you, except for the fact that you can always build a self sufficient toon. If you choose not to, then you choose not to. People that build toons that aren't self sufficient have decided that it's more fun to run around and have other people take care of them. This is all fine and good. If that's your thing, then that's your thing. But the problem is that you also have to convince others to actually follow you around and take care of you. This isn't something that is really fun, so you're going to have a bad time when these people don't exist.

So, in your mind, you can either be self sufficient or have "others follow you around and take care of you"?

Have you ever tried playing in a group?

[Teh_Troll]

So, in your mind, you can either be self sufficient or have "others follow you around and take care of you"?

Have you ever tried playing in a group?

How is he wrong?

[dunklezhan]

How is he wrong?

He's missing the bit where for many it is fun to play with other people, deliberately each shining in a particular area, and therefore necessarily weaker in others.

[mobrien316]

How is he wrong?

He is wrong in viewing the game as one of those two options because there are a lot of players who enjoying playing as a team. It is not limited to a choice of either you become self-sufficient OR you hope to find people willing to follow you around and take care of you; you have other options.

[Teh_Troll]

He's missing the bit where for many it is fun to play with other people, deliberately each shining in a particular area, and therefore necessarily weaker in others.

Fun for who?

How is one method of fun superior than any others?