The Elder Scrolls Online

[taurean430]

Now that is what I call p2w

That's a fair point. It isn't really what I intended to say. Though I can understand how that interpretation of my statement became that.

I love playing DDO. I don't care for the big push Turbine has implemented going on two years now to equate new players to vets by spending cash. Many other things as well. I've always loved Elder Scrolls games. So, I guess I'm saying that for me the sub cost is less than what I spend in a month anyway related to this game. What Turbine does with divine and arcane casters will strongly influence where my dollars for entertainment go. I've been convinced in my time here that they don't understand them, or like them for that matter. This game is entirely melee centric, with frequent changes to stop arcane and divine based abilities that players figure out how to cheese to victory. This while intentionally barring others. So, imo, they've taken a 180 approach to what made playing melee difficult or challenging past level 7 in 3.5 PnP. Late game PnP marginalizes melee excessively unless your DM is creative. Late game DDO marginalizes casters of all types. Going on 6 years is enough time spent fighting for divnes and arcanes to have abilities they should have, and not reside in relegated service to melees.

I've seen problems with ESO over my time there beta testing as well. But the one thing that strikes me above all others is that they got the balance right between melees, casters, and hybrids. That one point alone is enough to compel me to spend my entertainment money there. In DDO past level 20; if I want a caster that's effective I need to stack at least 9 past lives onto it, preferably completionist to make it viable. And that's ridiculous. In ESO at level 1 my casters of any sphere are viable, party friendly, and enjoyable to play.

To be pointed, forcing casters to have to heroic, now epic tr to the extreme to be viable is the biggest turn off this game has. It's a beautiful game, with enjoyable levels of complexity. But it fails to the extreme in it's treatment of casters of any flavor. That has been my observation in my time here.

[Ivan_Milic]

If eso was f2p it would flop, and as p2p it will end up like swtor.

[Snapdragoon]

spent the entire weekend playing it. went into it kinda meh. came out with 5 imperial editions reserved XD

things like having your massive bank that is already tied to your account (gotta pay for that here)
the bank also having a guild bank tab for ease of letting guildies have things

combat was slower but required more thought. more emphases is put on and rewarding dodging, blocking power attacks, etc. less mob combat and more one on one.
NPC's and voice acting was very well done, and I recognized a lot of the voice actors from movies and anime.
lots of quests, and the kind like DDO (that has kept me playing DDO) actual real quests, ill take 1 solid quest over 50 "go kill 10 sheep" any day.

crafting was rewarding and relevant but not OP.
visuals are jaw dropping so no need to go into that, world was massive as you would expect.
there were a lot of many small and not so small decisions you got to make during quests that would have a small effect, or a slightly larger one later. this was unexpected and added a very nice personal touch.

the only gripe I had was the group questing system, I had not made it to the instanced dungeons so I cannot fully comment. but the quests in the world space need a better group system, though I believe this is caused by the personal touch you can have on quest outcomes. I still feel it needs to be better.

seems to be launching with support (both established and third party) for custom ui skins and the like.

overall I pay so much more a month on DDO (a free to play game) then I will on eso. and don't have to deal with all the blatant P2W.

its not that much, if you get the chance to play it for a month I strongly recommend you take the best advice and review you can possibly get. your own! if you like it, go for it, if not, there are a bunch of other MMO's these days.

[Ungood]

That's a fair point. It isn't really what I intended to say. Though I can understand how that interpretation of my statement became that.

I love playing DDO. I don't care for the big push Turbine has implemented going on two years now to equate new players to vets by spending cash. Many other things as well. I've always loved Elder Scrolls games. So, I guess I'm saying that for me the sub cost is less than what I spend in a month anyway related to this game. What Turbine does with divine and arcane casters will strongly influence where my dollars for entertainment go. I've been convinced in my time here that they don't understand them, or like them for that matter. This game is entirely melee centric, with frequent changes to stop arcane and divine based abilities that players figure out how to cheese to victory. This while intentionally barring others. So, imo, they've taken a 180 approach to what made playing melee difficult or challenging past level 7 in 3.5 PnP. Late game PnP marginalizes melee excessively unless your DM is creative. Late game DDO marginalizes casters of all types. Going on 6 years is enough time spent fighting for divnes and arcanes to have abilities they should have, and not reside in relegated service to melees.

I've seen problems with ESO over my time there beta testing as well. But the one thing that strikes me above all others is that they got the balance right between melees, casters, and hybrids. That one point alone is enough to compel me to spend my entertainment money there. In DDO past level 20; if I want a caster that's effective I need to stack at least 9 past lives onto it, preferably completionist to make it viable. And that's ridiculous. In ESO at level 1 my casters of any sphere are viable, party friendly, and enjoyable to play.

To be pointed, forcing casters to have to heroic, now epic tr to the extreme to be viable is the biggest turn off this game has. It's a beautiful game, with enjoyable levels of complexity. But it fails to the extreme in it's treatment of casters of any flavor. That has been my observation in my time here.

I could change the word "Caster" to "Melee" in this post, and it would mirror how I feel the game has been going.

LOL, Irony.

I will say, GWII really hit a nice balance between the types, but each had it's own feel, like everyone could heal, but each had their own way to go about it, I wonder if ESO did the same, or even if they maybe did it better.

[Grosbeak07]

This game is suddenly starting to look a lot better!

[Brunhildha]

It is a tad expensive, but it can be really comparable to VIP subs here
<snip>
I would pay a little extra to avoid the annoying monetization of everything in the game.

I will definitely try ESO out if this new update falls flat.

My feeling is that with ESO they are much more concerned to support immersion than with DDO. Pirates? Flying bedsteads? I like a smile as much as anyone else, but the jokes in ESO (and I found a few in that one weekend) are carefully "in character". So I tend to believe them when they say that the P2P subscription model just suits their game world better.

I started DDO briefly on a subscription only European server but bailed out before the end, and the sound of the till every now and then was the single most disturbing thing in the move to Thelanis. I have got used to it, but I can see the attraction of a game where a). all the other players are serious, because they put up the cash, and b). there are no immersion breaking reminders that you can buy a pot if you really need it.

Having said all that, while the ESO team may be serious about 'Subscription only' now, who would bank on that sticking if their livelihood depended on it?

[taurean430]

I could change the word "Caster" to "Melee" in this post, and it would mirror how I feel the game has been going.

LOL, Irony.

I will say, GWII really hit a nice balance between the types, but each had it's own feel, like everyone could heal, but each had their own way to go about it, I wonder if ESO did the same, or even if they maybe did it better.

I know nothing of GW2 really. Healing in ESO can be provided by other classes, but every character has at least one option to heal themselves from what I've seen.

To the other, I think it's a wash really. Especially since we are citing overall feelings. Yet it's pretty clear to me having done it that rolling up a first life melee and running in EE's with decent gear is very doable. Not doable on casters of any flavor without Shiradi's no save procs. I've done that too with experimental builds. Nobody grinds in this game more than casters who want their spells to work. That's been my feeling and observation in relation to the subject.

[Uska]

Didn't like the single player game so I expect nothing from the online version and its to expensive compared to what I pay here and I am still having fun here.

VIP until I quit

[Ungood]

To the other, I think it's a wash really. Especially since we are citing overall feelings. Yet it's pretty clear to me having done it that rolling up a first life melee and running in EE's with decent gear is very doable. Not doable on casters of any flavor without Shiradi's no save procs. I've done that too with experimental builds. Nobody grinds in this game more than casters who want their spells to work. That's been my feeling and observation in relation to the subject.

I don't know what you consider "Decent Gear" but, my first life, 32 point, pure fighter, just can't keep up against the damage out put from Mobs, and gets quickly destroyed in EE content.

All my gear is ML 20, a mix of MotuD and Cove Items, as well some loot gen, only level 21 right now, so I don't have access to the Durgar Waraxe, but, still, it would be "decent" none the less, and I get owned.

I guess, in that front, it depends on what we call "decent", what we consider "easy" and the like.

[Ungood]

I know nothing of GW2 really. Healing in ESO can be provided by other classes, but every character has at least one option to heal themselves from what I've seen.

GWII was quite dymanic, they did not use "healing" as a means to force your way though things, like, for example: My ranger had 3 different ways they could heal, but I had to pick one of them, and that was what I had to use till I exited the dungeon or got out of combat/threat.

One way I healed was a Self Target Burst Heal, another was an AOE Dot that healed, and another was Self Target Regen heal, but healed more then the burst, just took longer.

But you also had Fields and Finishers, like for example, I could drop a Water Field, and if someone used a Light Finisher Move through the Water Field I just put down, they would heal themselves.

It was Very handy, because I had some Fields and Finishers that I could use personally, to heal myself that way and do damage to a target at the same time, but also, anyone else who took advantage of the field, could heal themselves as well.

So quite literally, a dozen people could restore their life by just one person laying a field on the ground. It was very dynamic system, which made you think, and pay attention to what other people were doing. Sometimes it was better to shoot through a field with a weak shot to self heal, or drop a fire field and hope people see it, and use it to combo out a crippling effect on the opponent.

Just, vastly different then how DDO plays to say the least.

[taurean430]

I don't know what you consider "Decent Gear" but, my first life, 32 point, pure fighter, just can't keep up against the damage out put from Mobs, and gets quickly destroyed in EE content.

All my gear is ML 20, a mix of MotuD and Cove Items, as well some loot gen, only level 21 right now, so I don't have access to the Durgar Waraxe, but, still, it would be "decent" none the less, and I get owned.

I guess, in that front, it depends on what we call "decent", what we consider "easy" and the like.

Okay.

Level 21-23 is somewhat barren really in terms of capability vs challenge. On melees I've had much better experiences running with a party. Being solo or shortman on a first lifer is much more difficult, but still doable. And expensive in pots and or scrolls. Decent, easy, etc will vary certainly. Though using tactical feats on builds in that content range is very effective I've found. The same cannot be said on the caster side. I think one of the most disappointing moments I've had in this game is taking my cleric through the spinner chain shortly after MoTU. Eye opening that was...

Anyway, this mini debate is derailing this thread. Be happy to take the discussion to another if it's necessary.

[Ungood]

Anyway, this mini debate is derailing this thread. Be happy to take the discussion to another if it's necessary.

I am sure it will find it's way into some other discussion