A Mounlanders Thoughts

[EazyWeazy]

Did you give feedback on the Shadowfell "Purple Haze" effect? Did anyone actually think that was a good idea?

Many of us hated it from the beginning. And that was before it would bug out and go insane.

[Jasparion]

Many of us hated it from the beginning. And that was before it would bug out and go insane.

Which I think sums up ML quite well. Even if there was mass disapproval, if Turbine wanted it, it was released anyway. And ultimately many players on Live also disliked it and was one of many reasons why they dont bother playing it much (of course there are many other reasons).

[NaturalHazard]

Which I think sums up ML quite well. Even if there was mass disapproval, if Turbine wanted it, it was released anyway. And ultimately many players on Live also disliked it and was one of many reasons why they dont bother playing it much (of course there are many other reasons).

eh? now im confused when others say things like this.

It was a great environment. Healthy and productive.

I hope that the PC will have the same to work in.

[dredre9987]

I think Jasp is a bit mad he was removed..

That and it is always easier to remember the negative over the positive.

[Jasparion]

I think Jasp is a bit mad he was removed..

That and it is always easier to remember the negative over the positive.

Not really. I tried to log in one day and found I couldnt. Thought it weird then saw the stock email saying "kthnxbei" and didnt give it much thought until it was announced that it was being shut down. Some here are trying to make out that it was always awesome and huge amounts of good were done and the game wouldnt have survived without their own personal contribution.

Your own earlier post shows it wasnt all hugs and kisses. In the 18 months I was in it there were plenty of interesting arguments and flare-ups.

You guys are free to talk about the good experiences, but I suspect the negative ones would be quickly moderated.

Many of us hated it from the beginning. And that was before it would bug out and go insane.

And remember, I didnt even say this. Someone else did. So I dont think you can just make it all about me.

[dredre9987]

Not really. I tried to log in one day and found I couldnt. Thought it weird then saw the stock email saying "kthnxbei" and didnt give it much thought until it was announced that it was being shut down. Some here are trying to make out that it was always awesome and huge amounts of good were done and the game wouldnt have survived without their own personal contribution.

Your own earlier post shows it wasnt all hugs and kisses. In the 18 months I was in it there were plenty of interesting arguments and flare-ups.

You guys are free to talk about the good experiences, but I suspect the negative ones would be quickly moderated.



And remember, I didnt even say this. Someone else did. So I dont think you can just make it all about me.

I think negative ones would be fine but I honestly didn't have too many negative things besides some I thought should never have been invited.

I remember the spell pass that took away extend for offensive spells...I was p'd off. I fought and felt like at the time they just didn't care.

And like I already said when the haze was first put in it wasn't that bad...A month later it was that disgusting bull that we have now.

I think Shadowfell was probably the worst time for me on ML because I believed ( and still firmly do ) that it is in no way an expansion and that it was pushed out to make money. I highly doubt this is going to get moderated as well LOL.

[Rasczak]

I'm not sure on why there is so much vitriol towards the programme. It's a pretty obvious business decision to allow for feedback based on an idea and to have no choice decisions pushed through. People seem to be acting as though the company and the ML system is flawed because of this. It's actually quite funny to see people baiting each other with strawman arguments but essentially you can pretty much see exactly why certain things have been done and it involves profit. No player interaction is going to effect that other than not buying it.

A bean counter wanted something and I don't think players realise how much that counts over player pain and anger. In my experiences, everything in DDO has been very deliberate. It wasn't some developer over lunch deciding to do something randomly. In fact the hardest part is probably how much developers loath the content they have to make and then having to defend it when they themself disagree.

So every post going on about how pointless ML was is hilarious to me. It shows a lack of understanding in how the business gaming world works.

However, the peasants are revolting so it's understandable.

[Jasparion]

I think negative ones would be fine but I honestly didn't have too many negative things besides some I thought should never have been invited.

I remember the spell pass that took away extend for offensive spells...I was p'd off. I fought and felt like at the time they just didn't care.

And like I already said when the haze was first put in it wasn't that bad...A month later it was that disgusting bull that we have now.

I think Shadowfell was probably the worst time for me on ML because I believed ( and still firmly do ) that it is in no way an expansion and that it was pushed out to make money. I highly doubt this is going to get moderated as well LOL.

Yeah I think youre safe having a go at Shadowfell. I wasted my money on it so Im certainly entitled to having a go at it. Terrible release. Just terrible. And to have an end game in an MMO without a raid is just wrong.

[Nascoe]

Any insights as to why they insisted on going forward with Shadowfell with such poor loot? Surely better loot would have helped the sales.

I think its really as simple as designing loot is a lot of work. And when you are already having trouble getting the Enhancement system put in place and are facing a deadline ...

I take that from what FOS mentioned a couple of months back as well as what could be grasped from several interviews with producers from Turbine.

[Jasparion]

I think its really as simple as designing loot is a lot of work. And when you are already having trouble getting the Enhancement system put in place and are facing a deadline ...

I take that from what FOS mentioned a couple of months back as well as what could be grasped from several interviews with producers from Turbine.

Its not a lot of work if you put in the effort early on. They need to look at the most common builds for the various classes and look at the sort of loot which matches those builds - often there are a number of builds across various classes which will share common themes, so they dont need to come up with 250 different sets. Even 10 or 12 would cater to most (Divine DC Casters, Arcane Nuker Casters, Str Melee, Dex Melee, Wis Melee, Str Ranged, etc.).

Then you ensure that the new release dungeons have a number of items which will go with those builds.

And then the raid items are improved versions and again cater to the vast bulk of the players.

And maybe sometimes they throw in some handwraps or rune arms to keep those guys happy.

People who have bizarre builds can rely on loot not really designed for them, and random loot. Its not really for the Devs to worry about AA 12 FvS / 8 Druid type builds.

Any time the Devs release loot details here they get a huge number of posts filled with excellent suggestions. The real issue is they dont release the details until its too late. In theory the new PC will help to stop that from happening.

[Satyriasys]

I think its really as simple as designing loot is a lot of work. And when you are already having trouble getting the Enhancement system put in place and are facing a deadline ...

I take that from what FOS mentioned a couple of months back as well as what could be grasped from several interviews with producers from Turbine.

I never bought this excuse. It costs Turbine nothing to make something +11 instead of +10 and would have surely helped the sales a great deal. The same goes with xp, if they would have pumped the numbers up a bit this "xpack" could have been a success.

[Chai]

I'm not sure on why there is so much vitriol towards the programme. It's a pretty obvious business decision to allow for feedback based on an idea and to have no choice decisions pushed through. People seem to be acting as though the company and the ML system is flawed because of this. It's actually quite funny to see people baiting each other with strawman arguments but essentially you can pretty much see exactly why certain things have been done and it involves profit. No player interaction is going to effect that other than not buying it.

A bean counter wanted something and I don't think players realise how much that counts over player pain and anger. In my experiences, everything in DDO has been very deliberate. It wasn't some developer over lunch deciding to do something randomly. In fact the hardest part is probably how much developers loath the content they have to make and then having to defend it when they themself disagree.

So every post going on about how pointless ML was is hilarious to me. It shows a lack of understanding in how the business gaming world works.

However, the peasants are revolting so it's understandable.

Ive been saying this for years, and many times it gets denied and passed off as "conspiracy theory". It goes all the way back to raising the amount of XP needed per life and then selling XP pots a month or two later. Some players looking at it from a player perspective only, and from that perspective they don't want to admit that most of these decisions are made from a business standpoint. They are not dev decision, they are management decisions.

[Chai]

I love this post for many reasons. The biggest is the assumption in your first statement about the causes of the current state of the game. If you think the PC will magically change anything you're in for a very sad surprise.

Think of it this way. When a person comes in to a new position (in any kind of work) one of the first things they do is come up with a plan to put their personal stamp on things. Think about the number of producers DDO has had over the last couple of years. At the top and the smaller producer positions below. Every single one of these positions has a vision of DDO as they want to implement it. It often has nothing to do with gameplay. They think of ideas that are resume building line items like, Directed game wide loot overhaul, Managed enhancement system redesign, Implemented entirely new Saga reward system, oversaw and implemented augment redesign that now brings in $xxxxx.xx revenue every month. All of these effect the game, but I think its a fallacy to assume all game decisions are driven by gameplay motivations.

Mournlands was the buffer of sanity that stood between live servers and the poor ideas of management. The PC and Lammania are now that buffer, but (imho) a weakened version. If they are unable to stand up and shout down some of the worst ideas that come down from management, the game's mediocre state will decline at a much faster pace than currently.

The problem there is some of the worst decisions from a player perspective are the best decisions from a short term profit perspective. When it looks that good on a quarterly spreadsheet it WILL get implemented. The PC might be able to provide feedback so that it gets implemented in the best way for players which will not interfere with the profit projections, but its well understood that stuff which makes money will not be changed in a way that would make less, simply due to player satisfaction.

[Nascoe]

If only the unwashed masses knew of the untold terrors they where saved from by the heroes working without fame and fortune in the shadows.

That is the fate of most heroes, who's deeds remain unsung. Thanks for putting in your best efforts, all of you.

And good luck to everyone on the PC for continuing.

When I see some of the dev interaction on the Lamannia forums, I do have hope that Turbine are working very hard to change things for the better, and it shows in the quality of that discussion (less dOOOM, more nice ideas about what to do, what to improve, how something can be done), although update 21 certainly seems to be quite a work in progress at this time (especially loot involved)

[Teh_Troll]

eh? now im confused when others say things like this.

There's nothing confusing about what that particular "other" is saying. For some people all is fine no matter how broken things are.

[Missing_Minds]

I think Shadowfell was probably the worst time for me on ML because I believed ( and still firmly do ) that it is in no way an expansion and that it was pushed out to make money. I highly doubt this is going to get moderated as well LOL.

You will find that many a player agrees with you. Content wise it was no expansion but a large content update.
Players believe it was a test run to see how much they could milk players for.

Why did my wife and I pre purchace? Because for the stuff we'd get for each character the per purchase cost was worth it. If we had less characters it would not have been worth it, let alone that "extra special" was a fraking joke for the cost, esp with quality of life dwindling at the time.

[Missing_Minds]

I never bought this excuse. It costs Turbine nothing to make something +11 instead of +10 and would have surely helped the sales a great deal. The same goes with xp, if they would have pumped the numbers up a bit this "xpack" could have been a success.

*shakes his head* You really don't have a clue what goes on behind the scenes. It isn't as simple as that.

Trust me when I say many a programmer wishes it was.

[Natashaelle]

That is the fate of most heroes, who's deeds remain unsung.

Thanks for the heart-warming encouragement -- but in fact we were trash mobs, and our main strength the ability to avoid getting one-shotted by a Dev.

Our Heroes died young and are chiefly remembered for the entertainment value of their fie and folly ...

I was no Hero -- only a Rebel.

[EazyWeazy]

The problem there is some of the worst decisions from a player perspective are the best decisions from a short term profit perspective. When it looks that good on a quarterly spreadsheet it WILL get implemented. The PC might be able to provide feedback so that it gets implemented in the best way for players which will not interfere with the profit projections, but its well understood that stuff which makes money will not be changed in a way that would make less, simply due to player satisfaction.

I agree that its not just a problem, but the biggest problem for DDO regarding "the state of the game" from the players' perspective. I'll put my rose tinted glasses on and watch how things go with the PC. I'm not expecting anything other than what we've seen already.

[Jasparion]

*shakes his head* You really don't have a clue what goes on behind the scenes. It isn't as simple as that.

Trust me when I say many a programmer wishes it was.

Of course it is that simple. In fact, its absolutely simple if they set it up correctly from the beginning, rather than having to go back and re-code.

Getting it right first time means we are happy with a new product and will tell our friends to buy it.

Having to fix it after-the-fact means some people will have given up on it and wont care what buffs are made. It means they need to spend money on fixing something. It means they are diverting resources away from developing new products or fixing tricky bugs.