Weekend Warriors #4 - Knight of the Holy Stick (pal 14+ / rog 5)

[EllisDee37]

Sorta sub-optimal as a first-life elite-streak trapper though but caused interesting reactions... I gather paladin trappers aren't all that common...

No doubt.

For me, not using staves until I get to 23 and pull my sireth out of the raider's box has allowed me to comfortably max trapping skills. Being a skill-starved paladin I still have to dump spot, but that's fine for a veteran.

I end up taking my rogue levels at 1, 8, 14, 17 and 20. This is a "pure" 15/5 build, as opposed to a 14/5/1. Here's the skills table:

..........O..P..P..P..P..P..P..O..P..P..P..P..P..O..P..P..O..P..P..O
..........1..2..3..4..5..6..7..8..9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
.........------------------------------------------------------------
Concent...2..1..1..1..1..1..2.....2..2..1..1..1.....2..1.....2..1..1..23
Heal......2.............................1..1..1.....1..4.....1..4.....15
UMD.......4....................7.................6........3........3..23
Disable...4..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1.....2..1.....2..23
Search....4..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..1..23
Spot......4.................................................. .........4
Open Lo...4....................3.................4........7........5..23
Balance...4.................................................. .........4
Jump......4.................................................. .........4
Haggle....4.................................................. .........4
Swim......3.................................................. .........3
Tumble....1.................................................. .........1
.........------------------------------------------------------------
.........44..5..5..5..5..5..6 12..6..6..6..6..6 12..7..7 13..7..7 13

So far I'm level 15, so it's still basically a regular evasion paladin so far, but it's been super fun re-leveling this build if nothing else for the nostalgia. For weapons I'm mostly using a lit2 falchion.

My guy's skill checks are off the charts, helped along by +3 skill tomes on search, disable and open lock, plus taking all the skill bonuses in the human tree and the mechanics line in the mechanics tree.

At level 15 I'm around 50 skill check. As in, the little dice icon that shows my roll displays a bonus in the high 40s, like +47 or +49 I think, for both disable and open lock.

The high open lock is particularly gratifying, getting both the locked treasure room in chains of flame and the mind flayer "rare" in gianthold on the first try, both with DCs in the 50s.

[Cardtrick]

Here's the skills table:

Have you considered making the spreadsheet you use to generate these publicly available? It's pretty awesome.

[EllisDee37]

Have you considered making the spreadsheet you use to generate these publicly available? It's pretty awesome.

Well, I went through and cleaned it up, making it presentable for public consumption. Where would I post it so that people could download it?

[Stoner81]

Well, I went through and cleaned it up, making it presentable for public consumption. Where would I post it so that people could download it?

Mediafire.com, Dropbox and Google Docs are some suggestions

Stoner81.

[Toro12]

With the unusual way staff specialization stacks with keen (staff spec first then , keen applied) makes the impact version of rahls might really darn strong. 19-20x3 base becomes 17-20x4 with staff spec.
But it does become quickly replaced with stout oak @ 20.

[Cardtrick]

Well, I went through and cleaned it up, making it presentable for public consumption. Where would I post it so that people could download it?

Stoner's suggestions seem good. Or maybe you could talk to jjflanigan and see if he has any interest in hosting it on his site? (With the crafting planner, etc.

With the unusual way staff specialization stacks with keen (staff spec first then , keen applied) makes the impact version of rahls might really darn strong. 19-20x3 base becomes 17-20x4 with staff spec.
But it does become quickly replaced with stout oak @ 20.

Keen/impact don't stack with Improved Critical. By the time you can use Rahl's Might, you should already have Improved Critical, so the impact version is not useful.

That said, Rahl's Might is still really handy -- it's the only good staff that has deception on the weapon (which stacks with deception from an item). And it has the critical profile to be useful. From levels 20-22, until I get Sireth, I still use Rahl's Might (the force burst version) quite a bit. This is partly because the Stout Oak Walking Stick's durability is terrible and I can't last through a long quest using just it, but Rahl's isn't too much of a step down.

[Toro12]

Stoner's suggestions seem good. Or maybe you could talk to jjflanigan and see if he has any interest in hosting it on his site? (With the crafting planner, etc.



Keen/impact don't stack with Improved Critical. By the time you can use Rahl's Might, you should already have Improved Critical, so the impact version is not useful.

That said, Rahl's Might is still really handy -- it's the only good staff that has deception on the weapon (which stacks with deception from an item). And it has the critical profile to be useful. From levels 20-22, until I get Sireth, I still use Rahl's Might (the force burst version) quite a bit. This is partly because the Stout Oak Walking Stick's durability is terrible and I can't last through a long quest using just it, but Rahl's isn't too much of a step down.

Forgive me but did I mention improved critical anywhere in my post? No.

Acrobat stick mastery applies before keen/impact on quarterstaves. Meaning the doubling of the critical threat range of a 20x stick goes to 19-20 with staff mastery then gets doubled by keen/impact.
WAI or not I don't know but that is how it worked up till the last update. I haven't played my acrobat since the last update to be certain it has hasn't changed.
But that is how it was working when I first pulled my stout oak and how it worked the last time I pulled out my stout oak with my acrobat

[Cardtrick]

Forgive me but did I mention improved critical anywhere in my post? No.

I was mentioning it for you. I'm saying that Improved Critical has exactly the same effect as keen/impact and they don't stack. Since you're always going to have Improved Critical by level 18, getting the Impact version of Rahl's Might does you no good.

When you have staff mastery and Improved Critical, any version of Rahl's Might is 17-20x4. So you might as well use the Force Burst version, since the Impact version you suggested doesn't have any other benefit.

[Toro12]

I was mentioning it for you. I'm saying that Improved Critical has exactly the same effect as keen/impact and they don't stack. Since you're always going to have Improved Critical by level 18, getting the Impact version of Rahl's Might does you no good.

When you have staff mastery and Improved Critical, any version of Rahl's Might is 17-20x4. So you might as well use the Force Burst version, since the Impact version you suggested doesn't have any other benefit.

The only version of rahls that is 19-20 is the keen version sir

----
Edit should clarify
iC doubles before staf mastery giving 19-20 then mastery adds one for 18-20
Where as keen acts differently with mastery and gives the 17-20

[Cardtrick]

Edit should clarify
iC doubles before staf mastery giving 19-20 then mastery adds one for 18-20
Where as keen acts differently with mastery and gives the 17-20

Wait . . . really?

Impact and Keen have always been intended to have the same effect as improved critical, so this definitely conflicts with my understanding of how these things stack. I'm 95% sure that IC doubles after mastery, just as keen/impact do, but it's easy enough to test. I've got a force burst Rahl's on my staff paladin with Improved Critical. I expect, and believe, that the critical range is 17-20x4 -- base 20x3, then 19-20x4 from staff mastery, then 17-20x4 from Improved Critical. I'll just verify the next time I log in whether or not I'm getting criticals on rolls of 17.

[Cardtrick]

Wait . . . really?

Impact and Keen have always been intended to have the same effect as improved critical, so this definitely conflicts with my understanding of how these things stack. I'm 95% sure that IC doubles after mastery, just as keen/impact do, but it's easy enough to test. I've got a force burst Rahl's on my staff paladin with Improved Critical. I expect, and believe, that the critical range is 17-20x4 -- base 20x3, then 19-20x4 from staff mastery, then 17-20x4 from Improved Critical. I'll just verify the next time I log in whether or not I'm getting criticals on rolls of 17.

Okay, I just tested this. This will be the last time I'm posting on the subject in this thread, since I don't want to derail it any further, but I also don't want misleading information out there in a thread intended for new players.

Toro12 is incorrect -- Improved Critical has the same behavior as the Impact property. I just verified (against Sobrien) that a roll of 17 on a Force Burst Rahl's Might with Improved Critical is a critical hit. With Staff Specialization and Improved Critical, any Rahl's Might is a 17-20x4 weapon. So there's no reason to seek out the Impact version in particular, and you can safely choose the better on-damage proc of the Force Burst one.

[Toro12]

Okay, I just tested this. This will be the last time I'm posting on the subject in this thread, since I don't want to derail it any further, but I also don't want misleading information out there in a thread intended for new players.

Toro12 is incorrect -- Improved Critical has the same behavior as the Impact property. I just verified (against Sobrien) that a roll of 17 on a Force Burst Rahl's Might with Improved Critical is a critical hit. With Staff Specialization and Improved Critical, any Rahl's Might is a 17-20x4 weapon. So there's no reason to seek out the Impact version in particular, and you can safely choose the better on-damage proc of the Force Burst one.

Nice means they fixed the way IC was stacking with staff mastery to make it work like keen. I was afraid they were going to nerf keen down as not WAI.
My drow weapon master stick will get more use now. Well probably not since I have a sireth now. That is if I ever get back to my acrobat,after all its only been an update or two.

[Edwardt]

I gave this build a try, because I need some past lifes in Paladin and I have to say: It rock's hard!
It's not a first life character, so I got the opportunity to start with STR 18 and I also maxed the search instead of concentration to be more secure in trap finding on ee later on.
Maybe this build will not be so confident as a first life toon, but with only some of the nice named gear and a few tombs he was able to run elite quests three level higher.
From one to twenty in two weeks mostly solo is amazing.
Thanks for that idea!

I got a feeling it will be with the upcoming update even better.

[Jiirix]

Sacred Defence works in light armor without a shield?

[EllisDee37]

Sacred Defence works in light armor without a shield?

Yep.

The "Greater" line (tiers 3-5) requires either heavy armor or a shield, but the "Improved" line (tiers 1-3) and the stance itself have no requirements.

[unbongwah]

I gave this build a try, because I need some past lifes in Paladin and I have to say: It rock's hard!

Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.

The "Greater" line (tiers 3-5) requires either heavy armor or a shield

Gtr Defensive Stance bonuses also apply to med armor.

With the Armor Up changes, I've considered ditching Evasion to equip med/hvy armor for the extra PRR/MRR and Gtr Stance bonuses, as I've already done that on the Hozoin-Kyuu build I've been leveling.

[EllisDee37]

Gtr Defensive Stance bonuses also apply to med armor.

Well, huh, I never noticed that. Good to know, thanks.