why is completionist a feat and epic completionist not

[Clarice]

I was just wondering why you still have the completionist feat costing a feat slot but if you do an epic completionist the slot just opens. Should we not get Completionist automatically now or maybe an extra feat slot, allowing you to use it or not. but still get a bonus. Tha argument I have seen in the past is that you get bonuses for the past lives and this is just extra, but this also applys to epic completionist,

anyways just ,my two cents

Clarice

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

I was just wondering why you still have the completionist feat costing a feat slot but if you do an epic completionist the slot just opens. Should we not get Completionist automatically now or maybe an extra feat slot, allowing you to use it or not. but still get a bonus. Tha argument I have seen in the past is that you get bonuses for the past lives and this is just extra, but this also applys to epic completionist,

anyways just ,my two cents

Clarice

Idk why epic completionist doesn't cost a slot. I think it should, just like heroic... They are too good to be free.

[Teh_Troll]

Neither should cost a feat.

[Icywave]

Neither should cost a feat.

That exactly.

[LavidDynch]

Neither should cost a feat.

of course it should cost a feat, and if you are any of Bard or Paladin it should cost 2 feats. Natural progression of the DDO learning curve.

EDIT. no tripple completionist shouldn´t gain anymore than a regular completionist.. okay maybe a custom made tinfoil hat.

[Daze]

Neither should cost a feat.

/signed

[ddorimble]

I've been an advocate for dedicated 'Past Life Feat' slots. Y'know, everyone gets one starting at level whatever...let's say 4, and then another every 4 levels after (adjust numbers as appropriate for however many Active Past Life Feats would be 'balanced'). Active Past Life Feats and Completionist would be able to be selected for those slots.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

give people who earned it the right way the feat for free, and let people who bought it have to take it still. although i guess that doesnt really make things better because no matter what the game will cater more towards the people who pay for it...

and give the people who earned it the right way more than once a cat scan and a job...

[Ilindith]

[lyrecono]

besides the dead horse part,
dev's have stated that a feat slot is a fair trade off for +2 stats.
Epic completionist just works totally different, can't pick a twist as a feat

With all the lay offs etc, asking for changes need to be done more selectively.

[MangLord]

I do feel like completionist and epic completionist should be autogranted to you upon achievement. Its not like either is easy to do.

I have fully ground out 8 lives on my completionist character, and the more i think about it, I feel like I deserve to be autogranted the feat. I've used xp pots, but I haven't skipped any levels with stones. Likewise with epic completionist, you have to put in a lot of work to earn the feat. Just the thought of doing all those quests another 4-5 times makes me question the worth of +2 to all stats, if I have to sink a feat into it. That amounts to an extra +1 spell DC or +1 damage, which isn't all that terrific.

Asking people to grind out Demon Sands and Gianthold for the umpteenth time seems worth of a feat. I work at my own pace and generally do Threnal for the crafting bits. Just doing the full Threnal chain 14 times is worth a special feat. Coyle is a serious jerk to deal with. Can I get my choice of +/- 10% stacking threat after dealing with that a$$hole?

It makes more sense to autogrant the feat rather than clog up limited feat resources on the build you plan to finish with, given the time, resource and money expenditure required, is amazingly expensive. I've never done the math to total up the points and real world money I've put into the game on my quest for completionist, but it has to be worth at least one free feat.

The past life feats are ok, but nothing to really write home about considering you're forced to run only elite past life 3. I've been debating the effort vs payoff ever since my fifth life, and at this point, I feel like I should focus on end game equipment over earning a pretty decent feat that I still have to pay for.

Full, triple completionist should definitely have its own feat. +6 to all stats, or +4 to all stats and skills would be a decent reward for all the work involved, and would reward all the players that have stuck with DDO through thick and thin to achieve the feat. Sometimes you ask a lot of us just dealing with terrible management choices over the years.

Completionist TR has been my goal, but I'm starting to rethink the worth now that I've passed the halfway mark and realized what an investment it really is. (Threnal anyone?) I feel like I've earned a passive +2 overall stat boost with 6 lives. Make it +5 and I'll spend a feat on that. The completionist feat should be autogranted, or add heroic versions of epic-only quests. You wouldn't believe how excited I was to see the lvl 9 Haunted Halls bug. I would be all over that for level 11 elite.

The Troll can say some dumb **** at times, but I think he's on the mark with this point. Overall, I think he's a valuable asset to where the game should be headed.

[Standal]

I do feel like completionist and epic completionist should be autogranted to you upon achievement. Its not like either is easy to do.

I have fully ground out 8 lives on my completionist character, and the more i think about it, I feel like I deserve to be autogranted the feat. I've used xp pots, but I haven't skipped any levels with stones. Likewise with epic completionist, you have to put in a lot of work to earn the feat. Just the thought of doing all those quests another 4-5 times makes me question the worth of +2 to all stats, if I have to sink a feat into it. That amounts to an extra +1 spell DC or +1 damage, which isn't all that terrific.

Asking people to grind out Demon Sands and Gianthold for the umpteenth time seems worth of a feat. I work at my own pace and generally do Threnal for the crafting bits. Just doing the full Threnal chain 14 times is worth a special feat. Coyle is a serious jerk to deal with. Can I get my choice of +/- 10% stacking threat after dealing with that a$$hole?

It makes more sense to autogrant the feat rather than clog up limited feat resources on the build you plan to finish with, given the time, resource and money expenditure required, is amazingly expensive. I've never done the math to total up the points and real world money I've put into the game on my quest for completionist, but it has to be worth at least one free feat.

The past life feats are ok, but nothing to really write home about considering you're forced to run only elite past life 3. I've been debating the effort vs payoff ever since my fifth life, and at this point, I feel like I should focus on end game equipment over earning a pretty decent feat that I still have to pay for.

Full, triple completionist should definitely have its own feat. +6 to all stats, or +4 to all stats and skills would be a decent reward for all the work involved, and would reward all the players that have stuck with DDO through thick and thin to achieve the feat. Sometimes you ask a lot of us just dealing with terrible management choices over the years.

Completionist TR has been my goal, but I'm starting to rethink the worth now that I've passed the halfway mark and realized what an investment it really is. (Threnal anyone?) I feel like I've earned a passive +2 overall stat boost with 6 lives. Make it +5 and I'll spend a feat on that. The completionist feat should be autogranted, or add heroic versions of epic-only quests. You wouldn't believe how excited I was to see the lvl 9 Haunted Halls bug. I would be all over that for level 11 elite.

The Troll can say some dumb **** at times, but I think he's on the mark with this point. Overall, I think he's a valuable asset to where the game should be headed.

Nobody ever mentions what this feat is worth. Some builds can't use it well and shouldn't take it. On a Cetus type build, this feat is worth around 21 build points. It seems reasonable to spend a feat for that. On a caster build, it replaces a DC feat and gives stat bonuses as a free plus. There's nothing wrong with completionist being a feat. One of the problems this game has is that vets have huge advantages over newbs in builds and gear. You can pretend it's all player skill but tomes, past lives, twists and destinies all matter a lot. I'm a terrible player, but I have a lot of the stuff grind gets you. That gives me a huge leg up. Giving completionist for free just makes that worse.

[Cathimon]

I'm against it, and I got 2 completionist characters myself. I used to be in favor of it being auto-grant, but that was before otto's boxes. You already get a huge advantage over the first lifer when you've got several H-PLs/E-PLs. And I've yet to figure a build in which I wouldn't take the completionist feat.

[Powskier]

so why do completionist? Heroic completionist feat, will take a diff feat away from a character..it shouldnt be a tradeoff. Ill never even think about heroic completionist untill I hear it is granted Free after aquireing it.

[grandeibra]

so why do completionist? Heroic completionist feat, will take a diff feat away from a character..it shouldnt be a tradeoff. Ill never even think about heroic completionist untill I hear it is granted Free after aquireing it.

Will you ever think about epic completionist until you hear it's granted for free? Since taking it precludes you from maxing the levels for your existing three slots. So also a tradeoff, not for free.

Personally I've never understood this whole debate. Power players get an absolutely incredible feat from heroic comp. They have to decide which of the crappier feats they replace. Why is this an issue? Only for an extremely feat-starved build with possibly 2 specific feat-chains needed would I ever consider not taking completionist over another feat.

[Llewndyn]

Neither should cost a feat.

When I read Teh_Troll's post and realized I agreed with it and it was both succinct and relevant. Alas, I must wait to upvote it, but one is forthcoming as SOON as the ladder bug is worked out!

[lyrecono]

Well, you see, it's this convoluted new math:

1. You get regular completionist by taking the feat (which so far I have not had issue doing, unless I roll up a paladin), which sucks, but FOR NOW(tm), you can TR for only 20 tokens, which takes a day or two to achieve.
2. You get epic completionist FREE, but in order to get it, you need 4200 friggin commendations at 13 a quest. This can take a month or two on hardcore gamers, and for people like me will be closer to chucking out cash at the store or, at 2.5 hours a day, taking 6 months per life.

It's a balance, you see...

i realy agree on the 4200 comms needed to tr being to much, i also agree that passive heroic pastlives seemed to give a bigger impact in heroics then epl seem to do on epics.

But how did you get to 13 com's a quest? what content are you playing the most and at what level and difficulty?
i admit that i play somewhat more then you (3 hours a day, 4 in the weekend) but i pick up about 2100 coms a week (wich gets me to 28 within that first week). i'm using tome and the ocaisional daily dice exp pot (esp when i do von5 once per life).
I'm by no means a hardcore gamer, i pug alot and there is atleast 1 in there costing the party 10% exp, but i never needed 2 months to get 4200 hearts. i'm on my11 th life atm and bought 1 epic heart when they were at sale, the rest was earned the hard way.

[aristarchus1000]

Heroic Completionist is just not a big deal anymore. Every day I feel like I meet a completionist who still doesn't know basics about the game, and I can only assume it is because they just to do easy content over and over again.

Granted, Epic Completionist is much the same, in that regard. I'd rather completionist get something cosmetic (maybe special armor, or another set of wings), but nothing that adds any real power.

[Llewndyn]

i realy agree on the 4200 comms needed to tr being to much, i also agree that passive heroic pastlives seemed to give a bigger impact in heroics then epl seem to do on epics.

But how did you get to 13 com's a quest? what content are you playing the most and at what level and difficulty?
i admit that i play somewhat more then you (3 hours a day, 4 in the weekend) but i pick up about 2100 coms a week (wich gets me to 28 within that first week). i'm using tome and the ocaisional daily dice exp pot (esp when i do von5 once per life).
I'm by no means a hardcore gamer, i pug alot and there is atleast 1 in there costing the party 10% exp, but i never needed 2 months to get 4200 hearts. i'm on my11 th life atm and bought 1 epic heart when they were at sale, the rest was earned the hard way.

I'm still working on Llewndyn's past lives, I got this fighter life, 1 more, then 2 sorc lives; so until then I've been doing really only EH because I don't keep any epic gear. I use whatever vendor loot I manage to pick up and I am doing one ED per life which may or may not have anything to do with my current life... So I flagged for CITW because flagging for new raids no one runs is fun for me (Hooray MA and LOB and Titan!), and was getting between 13 and 18 comms per run...

I've asked where all the big comm quests are, and gotten almost nothing back. Let's say you get 25 comms per quest. If you are getting 2100 comms a week, that means you have run 84 quests per week. Let's also assume you run about the same number of quests per day, so we'll take that down to 12 quests per night. If you are playing 3 hours a night, that's 15 minutes per quest, meaning things like VON and some of the longer quests are out of the question. That also means no interruptions, no bathroom breaks, no afks, all PUG members are buffed and ready to go and there is no real time wasted getting to each quest. I am NOT claiming you are a little off in your math, but I, and quite a few people I'd wager, don't have those kinds of conditions. I am guessing for the majority of us, 5 or 6 quests a night is a pretty decent haul, which includes running to each quest, waiting on PUGgers, letting the dogs out, bios, all that.

Also (and wholeheartedly not your fault), this also insinuates you take commendations for EVERY quest end reward, meaning you are hamstrung into ignoring anything else in the reward list. Legendary victory? Nope, COMMS. Rare loot or really nice vendor loot? No.... COMMS. Picture of a ninja jump punching a clown? No.....M-Fin' COMMS!

As I said a minute ago, I usually have to take a look at the other items on the list, because I don't carry much epic stuff (I have EAGA and E elemental greataxe and Greataxe of the Drow something or other, but thats about it), so my getting of comms is further diminished....

Ways to fix it? Either ramp up the amount of commendations you get to make it WORTH it to take them, or make them like the tokens and something you get from the end chest. I realize Turbine took them out to keep people from farming chests for them, but if someone wants to run Rusted Blades 3482901 times, let them I say...

And finally, my argument is that you shouldn't HAVE to earn those comms the hard way. They should be just like the heroic ones and not a hindrance to everything else. That all ties into the OP and the convoluted, lame (I believe someone had the gall to call heart seeds elegant, I scoffed so hard I had to call in sick at work the next day) process to ETR and the payoff VS. the heroic versions of the same. I'm not looking forward, TBH, to finishing up my heroic lives and realizing the grind hath increased six-fold, but it is what it is.

* I know VON 3 takes less than 10 minutes to run, I'm talking about VON 5

[Silkenwise]

Neither should cost a feat.

Agreed!

If you put the kind of investment it takes into the game to achieve this (paying VIP, or unlocking TONS of classes, lives, etc.) Then you deserve to enjoy the fruits of your labor to the fullest extent.