Comm increase with XP Pot, Shrine or VIP Bonus

[Henky]

Did some tests on lamaland, posted on the other thread:

A break in the Ice Epic Elite:

Base (wiki): 60
Shrine: 3 (5%)
Voice: 3 (5%)
VIP: 6 (10%)
Tome: 6 (10%)
Pot: 18 (30%)
Total: 96

Reward: 89

The Deal and the Demon Epic Elite:

Base (wiki): 40
Shrine: 2 (5%)
Voice: 2 (5%)
VIP: 4 (10%)
Tome: 4 (10%)
Pot: 12 (30%)
Total: 64

Reward: 59

So... tome doesn't count and we are loosing 1 CoV somewhere.

[NaturalHazard]

Hmmmmmmmm......

While any increasement is good, there is one thing i would like to say:

I BOUGHT Greater epic learning tome.

Obviously, that one is not on the "increasing" list. sad.

of course they already have your money for buying that why would they want to increase the value of something they have already sold? To sell more? it would have to be a significant increase for coms to get people to bite on epic tomes of xp.

[Bargol]

If this translates as:
+10% VIP
+10% Epic Tome
+5% Guild Buff
+5% VOM/Mantle/Master's Gift
+30% TOTAL

Then it's a step in the right direction.

What it really needs to be is:
+20% VIP
+20% Epic Tome
+5% Guild Buff
+5% VOM/Mantle/Master's Gift
+50% TOTAL

Allow up to 50% and you've got me sold.

Why should VIP's get +20%.....thats to big of a boost.

[Jasparion]

Why should VIP's get +20%.....thats to big of a boost.

And once again says that someone who spends $100 a year on a subscription is much more important than someone who spends $100 a year on TP codes.

[Oxarhamar]

And once again says that someone who spends $100 a year on a subscription is much more important than someone who spends $100 a year on TP codes.

Many companies give incentives to subscribers that how you get subscribers.

[Meat-Head]

We can quibble specifics. But overall, I like the move.

[Qhualor]

And once again says that someone who spends $100 a year on a subscription is much more important than someone who spends $100 a year on TP codes.

if you are already spending that kind of cash, than why wouldn't you subscribe? if you are willing to shell out that kind of cash, even as a subscriber, you could still spend that much.

[Phaeton_Seraph]

And once again says that someone who spends $100 a year on a subscription is much more important than someone who spends $100 a year on TP codes.

The thing is, VIPs buy a lot of TP too. So that's $100 a year for VIP, and at least as much as the average premium player (excluding what they spend on adventure packs).


Considering that the premium argument for purchasing the game on the instalment plan is primarily that it's cheaper than paying a subscription... one could speculate that premium players are more frugal. Following this line of reasoning, VIPs may be more likely to spend more money on TP than premiums.

Without sales numbers, I couldn't say. Then again, Turbine seems to be trying to treat VIPs better than they had been for a while. Is that a response to vocal VIP's complaints, or is that indicative of the revenues they covet?

[SilkofDrasnia]

The thing is, VIPs buy a lot of TP too. So that's $100 a year for VIP, and at least as much as the average premium player (excluding what they spend on adventure packs).


Considering that the premium argument for purchasing the game on the instalment plan is primarily that it's cheaper than paying a subscription... one could speculate that premium players are more frugal. Following this line of reasoning, VIPs may be more likely to spend more money on TP than premiums.

Without sales numbers, I couldn't say. Then again, Turbine seems to be trying to treat VIPs better than they had been for a while. Is that a response to vocal VIP's complaints, or is that indicative of the revenues they covet?

Really cause you have access to accounts information and know what vip spends vs premium accounts! Really though I am in a rather large founders guild and many are vip and guess what they, many of them, do not buy TP.

I challenge the whole VIP spends "at least as much as premium" on TP concept, especially considering VIP get a TP allotment every month.

[Qhualor]

Really cause you have access to accounts information and know what vip spends vs premium accounts! Really though I am in a rather large founders guild and many are vip and guess what they, many of them, do not buy TP.

I challenge the whole VIP "spend at least as much as premium" on TP concept, especially considering VIP get a TP allotment every month.

aside from new content and new classes, a vip can spend TP on lots of other things in the store. how far do you think that 500 TP really goes?

for me, i buy points because i run out of TP on my heroic TR trains. i buy xp pots and rogues mainly on my quest back to cap. the monthly 500 TP and the 2500-3000 favor i get each life softens the blow, but its not enough. in one of the Necro 1 quests where you need multiple players standing on those platforms, i buy 2 hires total. i have also bought upgrades to the heroic xp tomes and some fluff stuff. many people are into some form of P2W so VIPs don't get a discount or free Ottos boxes, hearts of wood, raid timer bypass, AS and tomes. i pay my VIP sub each year and i guarantee you i spend at least the same amount, if not more and i stick to just a few things mostly. imagine how much a VIP spends with all the P2W goodies on top of that.

[Kielbasa]

I may just be able to get my money's worth out of the cannith challenges now. Time to stock up on minor experience elixirs.

[murf201]

I'm premium and i buy almost 20 a month sometimes more . Point and case all your theories mean crapola !!

[Gizeh]

aside from new content and new classes, a vip can spend TP on lots of other things in the store. how far do you think that 500 TP really goes?

for me, i buy points because i run out of TP on my heroic TR trains. i buy xp pots and rogues mainly on my quest back to cap. the monthly 500 TP and the 2500-3000 favor i get each life softens the blow, but its not enough. in one of the Necro 1 quests where you need multiple players standing on those platforms, i buy 2 hires total. i have also bought upgrades to the heroic xp tomes and some fluff stuff. many people are into some form of P2W so VIPs don't get a discount or free Ottos boxes, hearts of wood, raid timer bypass, AS and tomes. i pay my VIP sub each year and i guarantee you i spend at least the same amount, if not more and i stick to just a few things mostly. imagine how much a VIP spends with all the P2W goodies on top of that.

That still doesn't mean a Premium player spends less; some players simply prefer to buy* content once so they never have to worry about it again, but that doesn't mean that they won't buy additional TP to spend on xp pots or Otto's boxes. For example, during the three years I had a Premium account I haven't only bought* all adventure packs, classes/races, expansions, but I also spent points on more or less useful things like shared item/plat bank, additional character slots or tomes of learning and fluff like cosmetic pets.

I still went VIP now because I have quite a few characters, many of them 1st or 2nd life, and I just don't want to have to run quests on norm anymore before I can open higher difficulties. I may or may not buy additional TP in the future, but I think it's unlikely unless there's a triple bonus point sale.

Lastly, I find it hilarious how you point out that you buy two gold seal hirelings for Tomb of the Burning Heart each life. Do you seriously think that spending 10 TP total per life on two gold seal hirelings makes you a big spender?



*disclaimer for the inevitable nitpicker: "buying" in this context means "perma-renting until the game closes for good"

[SilkofDrasnia]

aside from new content and new classes, a vip can spend TP on lots of other things in the store. how far do you think that 500 TP really goes?

for me, i buy points because i run out of TP on my heroic TR trains. i buy xp pots and rogues mainly on my quest back to cap. the monthly 500 TP and the 2500-3000 favor i get each life softens the blow, but its not enough. in one of the Necro 1 quests where you need multiple players standing on those platforms, i buy 2 hires total. i have also bought upgrades to the heroic xp tomes and some fluff stuff. many people are into some form of P2W so VIPs don't get a discount or free Ottos boxes, hearts of wood, raid timer bypass, AS and tomes. i pay my VIP sub each year and i guarantee you i spend at least the same amount, if not more and i stick to just a few things mostly. imagine how much a VIP spends with all the P2W goodies on top of that.

Get off the pedestal, all the things you mention premium can/want/need just as much as vip. You are implying because someone is VIP they are throwing cash left and right for junk that is not needed at all to play the game.

Here's a clue if someone one has that much cash to throw around they will do it regardless of being VIP or PREMIUM. I am betting the average VIP that is paying monthly feels like "meh they got 15 bucks a month from me and that's kind of enough" whereas the premium like me that has pretty much all packs etc feel like they can splurge since they don't have a monthly sub.

Be it as it may though this is all anecdotal BS.

What it comes down too is as a premium I don't want a recurring monthly CC bill I have to manage or keep an eye on so I buy a "lifetime access" to packs etc so it's once and done for me.

VIP would rather pay monthly and be able to say meh fudge I'll pay monthly and just let my sub run out when bored/taking a break etc etc.

People need to stop looking at it like premium="poor cheap mofos that that don't support the game" and VIP="pillars of the community that are keeping the game going" lol

It's really more of two different sub plans with pros and cons that differ from one of the other, both can spend as much as the other depending on the person and his view on the matter.

[Qhualor]

Get off the pedestal, all the things you mention premium can/want/need just as much as vip. You are implying because someone is VIP they are throwing cash left and right for junk that is not needed at all to play the game.

Here's a clue if someone one has that much cash to throw around they will do it regardless of being VIP or PREMIUM. I am betting the average VIP that is paying monthly feels like "meh they got 15 bucks a month from me and that's kind of enough" whereas the premium like me that has pretty much all packs etc feel like they can splurge since they don't have a monthly sub.

Be it as it may though this is all anecdotal BS.

What it comes down too is as a premium I don't want a recurring monthly CC bill I have to manage or keep an eye on so I buy a "lifetime access" to packs etc so it's once and done for me.

VIP would rather pay monthly and be able to say meh fudge I'll pay monthly and just let my sub run out when bored/taking a break etc etc.

People need to stop looking at it like premium="poor cheap mofos that that don't support the game" and VIP="pillars of the community that are keeping the game going" lol

It's really more of two different sub plans with pros and cons that differ from one of the other, both can spend as much as the other depending on the person and his view on the matter.

pedestal? no, you got that wrong. you tried to say that Premiums spend more money on the game than the VIPs because of some people you know in game that are VIPs and don't spend anything else on the game and because of 500 TP a month. you are correct that Premiums have as much access to things in the store as VIPs, but it doesn't mean they spend more than them. i was using myself as an example that 500 TP doesn't pay for squat when there is always something in the store to buy. the difference between a VIP and Premium is one pays to rent content and classes until their sub is over and the other pays what he wants when he wants one time only. its a myth started by Premiums that VIPs don't spend much beyond their sub. ive seen these same discussions since 2009 and it has always been Premiums upset whenever a VIP gets a perk or that 500 TP can be saved up since there is nothing in the store a VIP wants or needs. that's a bunch of bologna.

Premiums do spend money on the game and i don't really care how much it is. if its more than some VIPs, than fine. if its less than some VIPs, than fine. i really don't care. Premiums are the ones that chose not to subscribe so they either need to pay for VIP and stop the belly aching all the time or just be quiet about it and stop with the "i want what the VIPs get too because i spent $500 on this game last month". if Premium is such a better choice than there shouldn't be any crying when bones are thrown to VIPs. Premiums think they got the better deal. great. VIP think they got the better deal. great. that should be the end of it.

[SilkofDrasnia]

So sorry but you are the one that came in defending

...

bigoted little post, or at least implied bigotry, you came on with anecdotal evidence which I then clearly showed can be refuted by more anecdotal evidence.

Clearly you are missing the point which is how much a person spends has nothing to do what so ever with if they are premium or vip which I clearly state in my post. In case you missed it or had difficulty reading the pertinent line here's a quote, I even made it green for you:

Be it as it may though this is all anecdotal BS.

Now last time we communicated on these forum we had a similar run in but I will ask you kindly to keep your "soreness" from it away from me and find someone else to trollbait.

As for bellyaching you seem to be doing a fine fine job of that yourself.

I personally think VIP should have more and not need to pay for any content whether it be expansion new races and whatnot.

What I think is that VIP and PREMIUM need each other and think the game might have trouble surviving without each other.

One thing though I will be damned if I will shush up and go away because someone like you and Phaeton_Seraph come in these forum and post their bigoted viewpoints.

Way I see if you can post such I can post against such.

[pHo3nix]

Pretty much this, they "messed up" and are now trying to sell us fixes in the store...lol

An unexpected move from turbine, they've never done it before

[Phaeton_Seraph]

Really cause you have access to accounts information and know what vip spends vs premium accounts! Really though I am in a rather large founders guild and many are vip and guess what they, many of them, do not buy TP.

I challenge the whole VIP spends "at least as much as premium" on TP concept, especially considering VIP get a TP allotment every month.

My information may be anecdotal, but that's where things start. I speak with the people I play with. I've read many a VIP's forum responses to premium player's claiming that they pay more in TP than VIPs do. And when the VIP's responses include a short accounting of their TP purchases/expenditures, I don't usually see the premium poster respond in kind. There's no whipping out of the credit card bills to see who's is larger.

I even qualified my original statement saying that without sales figures I couldn't be sure. So what's your real problem? You responded to my post twice. And it appears you've called me bigoted. That's so cute.
Thing is, neither Qhualor nor I implied that premiums are "poor cheap mofos that that don't support the game." That was all you.
"Pillars of the community?" LOL - I really don't think the words you're reading between the lines mean what you think they mean.


A "founder's guild." That statement lends no more legitimacy to your opinions than anything I've said apply to mine.
If nearly all of the people I used to run with when I joined don't play any more, I doubt that your guild is comprised primarily of founders and betas. If it is, your guild is an outlier so far from the norm that there's no point in comparing it to any other guild.


Most of the people I play with are VIP. My knowledge of their spending habits is limited to what I hear them talk about and see them use. I also know that I don't go telling other people how much I spend on TP.
But if you look at their cosmetics, use of ship portals, ask what size bags they're using, pay attention to their use of cakes, SP pots, timer bypasses &c... You'll see that their spending habits can't supported by their VIP allowance.

Ask any VIP; "So 500TP/month, eh? That's pretty good, right?" 500 tp is nothing. (I'll admit it is still better than a kick in the head, at present.)


Now think about that. That's many a VIP's attitude towards 500 TP. It's like that free spirit cake from Korthos. It's the push that sends you down the slippery slope.


500TP is kinda like that +2 to +3 upgrade tome. You can't really use it. So just like the guy who gets tricked into buying the first tome so he can use the second tome, you buy more TP.
Now you have at least 1300 TP, so you usually don't buy the 750 TP item, you buy the more expensive one.
But now you're almost out of TP (if not out), so you learn to buy bigger when buying TP too.

Aside from consumables, 500TP doesn't have much purchasing power. We buy just as many bags as anyone else, bank space, inventory space, cosmetics &c. And those of us who have played more than a year know we need the biggest bags/containers. And then we buy consumables too.

I've heard of VIPs saving their TP, but I've never spoken with anyone who has managed to.

The VIPs I've played with don't favour farm for TP nearly as much as premium players do (in fact, none I know of). The returns for the effort don't compare to our allowance. We get our inventory and then pretty much ignore the TP reward notices that come in the mail. Because if 500 TP is nothing, 25 TP is less than nothing.

And then, there are VIPs with more than one VIP account (although I can't understand that one, unless it's for their kids).




I've hated the way they've been throwing XP at VIPs to (re)sweeten the pot so we'd keep subscribing. Linking Comm rates to our XP bonus will the first redeeming thing they've done for us since they started charging us for character classes.

The free ETR heart was just a PR response to our anger, and would have been better if we'd had a choice of an ETR heart or an ITR heart. And it wouldn't have even been thought of as a good idea if they had provided reasonable Comm rates to start with.

[SilkofDrasnia]

My information may be anecdotal, but that's where things start. I speak with the people I play with. I've read many a VIP's forum responses to premium player's claiming that they pay more in TP than VIPs do. And when the VIP's responses include a short accounting of their TP purchases/expenditures, I don't usually see the premium poster respond in kind. There's no whipping out of the credit card bills to see who's is larger.

I even qualified my original statement saying that without sales figures I couldn't be sure. So what's your real problem? You responded to my post twice. And it appears you've called me bigoted. That's so cute.
Thing is, neither Qhualor nor I implied that premiums are "poor cheap mofos that that don't support the game." That was all you.
"Pillars of the community?" LOL - I really don't think the words you're reading between the lines mean what you think they mean.

It's very simple the whole concept/theory you have is bigoted. When you make statements that a "certain" group spends less because of how they choose to spend their money "vip or premium based" it becomes personal attacks especially when you imply VIP spend more simply because they are vip. Unless you can access every vip and premiums bank accounts and see their spending your claims are just rubbish for the sake of bringing rubbish into it.

It's the very same thing that is implied every single time a vip vs premium thread happens in these forums and it needs to stop, it only divides us when we should be standing together without all the hate and "bellayaching", to borrow the word from Qhualor, I see from both sides.

People will spend w/e they feel they can spend on the game whether they are vip or premium and that is the truth of it. Making it about premium or vip is what makes your claims bigoted and if you can't see that well,, as they say is hard to see the bad in ourselves isn't it.


A "founder's guild." That statement lends no more legitimacy to your opinions than anything I've said apply to mine.
If nearly all of the people I used to run with when I joined don't play any more, I doubt that your guild is comprised primarily of founders and betas. If it is, your guild is an outlier so far from the norm that there's no point in comparing it to any other guild.

I mentioned I was in a founder guild for one simple reason to show that indeed most of my guild are vip, sure some of us like myself are not and guess what? Not once has one of them tried to imply how much members spend on TP has anything to do with being premium or vip. Point I wanted to drive home though was the vip outnumber the premium in the guild which ties in to what you say next


Most of the people I play with are VIP. My knowledge of their spending habits is limited to what I hear them talk about and see them use. I also know that I don't go telling other people how much I spend on TP.
But if you look at their cosmetics, use of ship portals, ask what size bags they're using, pay attention to their use of cakes, SP pots, timer bypasses &c... You'll see that their spending habits can't supported by their VIP allowance.

Like I said most of my guildies are vip and guess what *gasp* I talk and play the game with them as much as you do with yours and guess what most don't spend enormous amount buying TP. Guess what though I don't use this small small small sample of the player base to try and fuel any kind of bigoted or prejudiced view I may have about the rest of the player base.

Ask any VIP; "So 500TP/month, eh? That's pretty good, right?" 500 tp is nothing. (I'll admit it is still better than a kick in the head, at present.)

I agree 500tp a month is too little for vip. What you and other people like you that keep making it about vip vs premium need to understand is that it's possible to talk about the balance between vip and premiums without turning it into a who spends more peeing match. I think the game is better of with both group than just one group be it one or the other.


Now think about that. That's many a VIP's attitude towards 500 TP. It's like that free spirit cake from Korthos. It's the push that sends you down the slippery slope.

Yes lets think about attitudes for a minute shall we? ..... How about both vip and premiums keep this about the game and not who pays more especially since who puts more money in the game can vary I am sure from month to month regardless of being premium or vip as this has to do with people personal financial situations and not whether they choose to be vip or premium. When we go there it goes into the realm of personal attacks but against a whole group rather than one person.


500TP is kinda like that +2 to +3 upgrade tome. You can't really use it. So just like the guy who gets tricked into buying the first tome so he can use the second tome, you buy more TP.
Now you have at least 1300 TP, so you usually don't buy the 750 TP item, you buy the more expensive one.
But now you're almost out of TP (if not out), so you learn to buy bigger when buying TP too.

Aside from consumables, 500TP doesn't have much purchasing power. We buy just as many bags as anyone else, bank space, inventory space, cosmetics &c. And those of us who have played more than a year know we need the biggest bags/containers. And then we buy consumables too.

Your point is? All this is equally valid for premiums. 500tp is not much I agree and I have always said they need more perks and increased TP per month. Guess what though? All this really has no bearing on who spends more but has to do more with some feeling vip are not getting their moneys worth.

I've heard of VIPs saving their TP, but I've never spoken with anyone who has managed to.

The VIPs I've played with don't favour farm for TP nearly as much as premium players do (in fact, none I know of). The returns for the effort don't compare to our allowance. We get our inventory and then pretty much ignore the TP reward notices that come in the mail. Because if 500 TP is nothing, 25 TP is less than nothing.

Again with a bigoted viewpoint! Again with the arrogant and prejudice filled assumption that because someone is premium they "favor farm" all their points instead of buying them. (You see how it comes off as seeing premium as poor cheap mofos). Guess what I don't favor farm, do I get TP from favor? Sure because I like to TR but that is far far from where the majority of my TP comes from. My TP tends to come from 20$ and 35$ point bundles.

You make some points which would be valid about vip but then you flush it all down the drain with your bigoted "premium favor farm more than vip" attitude/claim.

And then, there are VIPs with more than one VIP account (although I can't understand that one, unless it's for their kids).

I will help you with this one, like us premium I am sure there are vips that play with their wife/other halves and thus more than one account or indeed like you mention they have kids or they just plain are addicted and need two accounts for some reason.


This is the same for both group I am sure since I play with my wife so every pack/xpack TP purchase I make I tend to make x2. If I buy myself 20$ worth of TP I tend to buy 20$ worth for my wife too. It's not something limited to vip!


I've hated the way they've been throwing XP at VIPs to (re)sweeten the pot so we'd keep subscribing. Linking Comm rates to our XP bonus will the first redeeming thing they've done for us since they started charging us for character classes.

Yes I can see the hate very well! How about you direct it where it belongs instead of at premiums?

The free ETR heart was just a PR response to our anger, and would have been better if we'd had a choice of an ETR heart or an ITR heart. And it wouldn't have even been thought of as a good idea if they had provided reasonable Comm rates to start with.

Yes I agree it was a PR thing and I agree a reasonable com drop rate is a must, I would go even further and say it should be a must for both groups and both groups should be working actively to make that happen.

My replies in green.

I would even say what must be done is when it comes to drops and thing like com/gear etc etc the drop rate should be equal for both groups and balanced for both groups. Once that is achieved THEN you sweeten the pot for vips.

There are many ways to make vip better first would be to stop selling content to them under the name of xpacks. As a premium I expect to have to buy new "adv packs or xpacks" if you want to use shifty wording and races etc but I don't think vip should have to buy this, they should get it free and races etc etc too.

[deahamlet]

Don't be stupid, people.

VIP is FOR SURE moneyz, premium is MAYBE money. Every game/company makes sure to make VIP more attractive than premium because with VIP they know they can count on X money, was already paid and done for. If a VIP paid for a year, it doesn't matter that he suddenly has less time to play and must barely touch the game 1-3 months. If a premium doesn't have the time, doesn't like how that new quest pack looks, doesn't feel like it... he just doesn't log for 1-3 months and doesn't spend.

I don't even know why I have to explain to anyone that simple fact. It is simply irrelevant if VIP spend or don't spend more than the monthly fee on the game. That monthly fee is sure money and often a draw-back to not coming into the game. Other games who refuse to do VIP type things have to do silly things like offer free items for just logging in daily... when you don't log in you either lose your current stack (see Neverwinter) or you just lose on the progress for those days (see PSO2, though this game ALSO has VIP but gives VIP twice the progress for logging in).

You are premium, you paid for CONTENT and you got your content. You deserve no more, no less. Now a customer who decided to make a commitment that at least one month he has paid (and if he stops paying he doesn't have ANYTHING)... they need to be kept around. Because they are paying for access not for any actual content to own. But their money is a for-sure thing especially if signing up for 1-year. The more attractive the offer, the more likely you will be handed over 1-year worth of subscription and you know just how much of your bills you have paid.

Premium need only be offered enticing content to acquire. If the content is enticing, people pay. It is just like any other shop. VIP is a different business, different benefits, different relationship. VIP has to have enticement outside the enticement of content because you are not really purchasing content. Yes, mnemo pots are content in this discussion :P. Also if you think of adventure packs... VIP will keep paying even if you've made no new packs, while a premium... will not. Probably why we have astral whatevers and mnemo pots and cakes and whatever else.