What is so good about levelling?

[Waaye]

Yesterday, another player came up to me in-game and inquired why I was not in a guild. I responded that I was too slow to group. They then asked if that meant I was levelling too slow!?

My response to the latter question was that I was levelling waaye too fast at more than a level per month and I prefer to increase level no more than 6 times per year of regular play. [Didn't see the response because the data loss rate had gotten so high I could not move and had to disconnect.]

Half a level per month is a good rate of increase because I can get some use out of my hard-won gear. In DDO my Giant's Roar bow was obsolete before it was even broken-in properly. That is sad because I really liked that bow. [In the original AD&D Gold Box games I managed 30-some levels over about six years of regular play and that levelling rate was just about right.]

My objective is to adventure and explore the world of DDO. The levelling requirement is an obstacle to that goal. Since reaching level 8 the majority of my time has been spent questing for new gear to replace obsolete items and not exploring. Where's the fun in that?

So, what is so good about levelling?

[jalont]

This is the average DDO player ladies and gentleman. Remember that.

As to the OP, do what you think is fun. If that's how you like to play then play that way. Once you hardcap, XP won't count anymore, so you can theoretically stay level 8 and run quests forever if you like.

[dunklezhan]

So, what is so good about levelling?

Shiny new character abilities to play with. That's why I dread epic levels 21-24 if I eTR, it's why I hate the trees that have lots of 2AP abilities. In a video game - even on say a heavy RP server in WoW - I live for level ups, so i can try the new thing.

Conversely, I couldn't give a toss about loot if I have to work for it by endlessley repeating quests (if there were named items which would only drop after killing the second dragon in Mired in Kobolds however, and that fight was about twice and tough, I would play that quest all day, as I have no trouble running into a wall over and over again if in doing so i eventually learn a technique to vault over it - i.e. if I am being challenged and have to learn to succeed, not bored out of my mind).

If DDO had more of an RP feel, I would completely waste loads of time exploring and levelling even more slowly than I already do which is pretty slowly by most standards, I have first life characters that are still only mid teens or lower, and a bunch I got to 20 over the eHeart give away by concerted effort by the guild, not by me personally levelling really fast.

But there isn't. So I want to see the yellow glow and make some character advancement choices. NAO!

[danotmano1998]

My objective is to adventure and explore the world of DDO. The levelling requirement is an obstacle to that goal. Since reaching level 8 the majority of my time has been spent questing for new gear to replace obsolete items and not exploring. Where's the fun in that?

So, what is so good about levelling?

Different strokes for different folks..
Me, I enjoy making character progression, trying new builds, new ideas, feeling the power of each level increase, trying out new boosts, playstyles, etc..
Leveling up is fun..
But then again, I've been playing this game for several years now and I've seen most of what there is to see and done most of what there is to do.
The fun for me is in character building and progression.
If you are taking 2 months to level, I wouldn't worry over much about obsolete items.. Getting +1 better on your attack bonus or 1 more point of dex probably won't dramatically increase your fun, so why worry about it? Go exploring!

The most important point is to have fun doing it. If you're doing that, it's all good no matter how you choose to play the game.
Enjoy!

[Waaye]

This is the average DDO player ladies and gentleman. Remember that.

Thanks, jalont, but the vast majority of remaining DDO players seem to be long-time players and not first timers as I am. Six month ago there were many other first-timers around but we are not so common now.

If that's how you like to play then play that way.

Giant's Roar and studded leather armour are not effective in quests like "Invaders!" at level on normal the first time through. There is no choice but to improve gear whether a player likes it or not. It literally takes longer to get the gear than to do the quests and that is not how I really "like to play" but not really all that bad either.

Shiny new character abilities to play with.[...]
if I eTR,[...]
I live for level ups, so i can try the new thing. [...]
being challenged and have to learn to succeed[...]

Thank you for answering the question, dunklezhan. It seems that you have worked beyond the quests and are now in the after-game or meta-game as I call it. One of your 'quests' now appears to be levelling your characters. That makes sense. The guild member that contacted me in-game must have thought I was a meta-gamer trying to rapidly level my character too. Now I understand what they meant. Thanks for clearing things up.

Different strokes for different folks.[...]
enjoy making character progression, trying new builds, new ideas, feeling the power of each level increase, trying out new boosts, playstyles, etc. [...]
The fun for me is in character building and progression.

Thanks for the response, danotmano, It seems that many other DDO players enjoy levelling as you do. Good luck with your builds.

If you are taking 2 months to level, I wouldn't worry over much about obsolete items.

Sorry I did not make myself clear. Advancing 0.5 levels a month would be great but even with throwing out all the EXP boosts my level is still increasing at a dizzying 1.2 levels monthly. My bows become obsolete every other month, like it or no.

Getting +1 better on your attack bonus or 1 more point of dex probably won't dramatically increase your fun, so why worry about it? Go exploring!

Since L8 a few quests were quite difficult for me at level on normal. First try at "Invaders!" with my standard bow and Merrik failed about half way through. After heeding FranOhmsford's advice to take Miranda [with her obvious drawbacks] and upgraded a bow with instructions from Fedora1 and recipe 5 from linshao the quest went very well. Those small plusses made a big difference and now I can go explore some more.

The most important point is to have fun doing it. If you're doing that, it's all good no matter how you choose to play the game.
Enjoy!

Thanks, I am having fun and it did not bother me in the least when that guild member talked to me. Their second question was puzzling, however, and technical problems prevented further communication. Now i know what they meant.

Happy questing!

[Ryan220]

Personally I like levelling. Its a target i like to reach and then take - then get to 20 and TR again.


You dont HAVE to take your level once you have enough Exp though.

[Matuse]

My bows become obsolete every other month, like it or no.

Get the silver bow from The Church And The Cult. It doesn't go obsolete for a long time due to its superior critical profile.

[Ungood]

Yesterday, another player came up to me in-game and inquired why I was not in a guild. I responded that I was too slow to group. They then asked if that meant I was levelling too slow!?

My response to the latter question was that I was levelling waaye too fast at more than a level per month and I prefer to increase level no more than 6 times per year of regular play. [Didn't see the response because the data loss rate had gotten so high I could not move and had to disconnect.]

Half a level per month is a good rate of increase because I can get some use out of my hard-won gear. In DDO my Giant's Roar bow was obsolete before it was even broken-in properly. That is sad because I really liked that bow. [In the original AD&D Gold Box games I managed 30-some levels over about six years of regular play and that levelling rate was just about right.]

My objective is to adventure and explore the world of DDO. The levelling requirement is an obstacle to that goal. Since reaching level 8 the majority of my time has been spent questing for new gear to replace obsolete items and not exploring. Where's the fun in that?

So, what is so good about levelling?

If anything, I would say you are not investing in good quality gear, I normally start a TR with a Twink Weapon, a Nice low ML Icy Burst Weapon and keep using that baby, till 12th, where I get the GS out of the bank and use that till 20th.

One of the great parts of DDO is that some gear has endurance, you can get at a lower ML and, it's just an end slot item, like for example, in a times past, a Minos Legend was the must have helm, get a Torc and you're done with neck slots, etc.

Also, never underestimate situational weapons, items, gear, like a Scarab of Protection is super handy when the need arises, but it's not something to use all the time, and lets not overlook augments, for low level stuff, my rings at level 9 are still a Jade Ring, and a Black Wolf Skin cloak, the Jade ring has my Gift of the Master, so I get +5% from level 1 on up, and given, rings are not that big a deal, I'll keep that for a few more levels, and around 10th or so, swap that out and just use a VoM for the rest of the way up, but that ring allows me to use a Greater Trinket (ML4) and my Charged Gauntlets (ML5), I'll have those on till 12th (depending on situation) for the lighting strike effect, and then swap over to my GS gauntlets.

So investing in enduring gear, is the best way to stop worrying about updating your gear from time to time.

I would say, at level 8, going after the Channith Challenge Gear is a fun, you can do those at a slow pace, get almost no exp, and still work towards getting some sweet level 8 gear that is very handy stuff, that should last you at least 4 more levels, or about 8 months of slowly exploring the game world for you.

[kned225]

What kind of thread is this?

I like playing this way.... Ok?

Yes, its ok.

Next thread: I like to make my character walk everywhere.. It seems more realistic. Whats so great about running?

Responses: i personally enjoy running. It seems to allow me to get where i want to go more quickly

[Dexraven]

I'm glad you enjoy playing DDO your way.

I've always preferred to play the game and let the levels take care of themselves, I don't need to cap to enjoy playing.

[Lonnbeimnech]

What kind of thread is this?

I like playing this way.... Ok?

Yes, its ok.

Next thread: I like to make my character walk everywhere.. It seems more realistic. Whats so great about running?

Responses: i personally enjoy running. It seems to allow me to get where i want to go more quickly

I like teleporting.

And I love wings/abundant step. I often press my wings button on characters that don't have wings, then I look down at my hotbar and it's not there, then I get sad...

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Just play the game and have fun.

The levels will come all by themselves.

[harry-pancreas]

full of gear multi-TR toons that used giant's roar for first time 4 years ago and have been using that (and many other items) for years are bored already. They wan't to hit level 20 and TR for a new feat, or hit 28 and start farming the gear they don't have. It's what happens when you can't improve in heroic levels anymore because you did most of the stuff, or everythinn you wanted.

Not my style, but i understand it. Keep in mind this game is from 2006, 8 years already.

[Seikojin]

For me, all my characters fit a theme or idea. And I want to see how well that idea or theme fits in all the content of the game. Has nothing directly to do with levelling. However, you have to level if you want to try out some of the higher end content.

[Violith]

Get the silver bow from The Church And The Cult. It doesn't go obsolete for a long time due to its superior critical profile.

^ this, not sure how good your bow is, but there are a select few bows that dont go obsolete that quickly.

Silver long bow (church and the cult) lvl 8+ (I've used it up till ~16 on some toons)
bow of sinew (madness chain) lvl 14+ (have used it past epic levels before)


im sure there is more, but havent played an archer recently to really know the newer good bows. but still, Not leveling just so your first named item doesnt go obsolete is rather pointless, Now if its merely to enjoy walking around the quests thats a whole other thing entirely. my first toon probably took awhile to reach 20 too just from exploring around, but I dont see a point in not leveling entiring because of it, With the TR system you can level as you like take your time exploring and such to 20 (rather easy on 1st lifers) TR and then do it again, running different quests and such, and repeat. with the amount of quests, you could be exploring probably for a few lives.

granted, thats not what I done, once I got so far on one toon, I merely played different toons to see different ways to go through quests with different builds. Though after all this time I wish I would've kept to 1-3 toons and merely TR'd them when I wanted to make a new one.

[Waaye]

Get the silver bow from The Church And The Cult. It doesn't go obsolete for a long time due to its superior critical profile.

Thanks for the suggestion, Mateus. I soloed with Burak for that bow at L7. Thirteen tries if you don't count the many times we died. It was sad when I discovered it was L8 and not L6 like i thought. That bow worked well for me from L8 until L10 when I switched to Elements (air). At L12 I switched again to a bow of my own making that works a tiny bit better than the others.

By the way, why does that stupid machine in the harbour insist that a silver longbow is a named bow? It refused to put Icy Burst on my silver bow. Next time I'm there I will kick it right in the crankshaft. That'll teach it.

Anyway, it does seem that some people really do try to level quickly as an objective.

If anything, I would say you are not investing in good quality gear, I normally start a TR with a Twink Weapon,

How are you seeing my gear, Ungood? It is possible in a few other games but I could never figure out how to do it in DDO. If you point out which of my items is inadequate for a first-timer then I will make every effort to replace them. So, where do I get a "Twink Weapon" because I want one even though I do not know what it is?

All players must level to keep doing quests and if they level then they must upgrade their gear. That has been true for more than forty years since the first Written Rules-Based D&D game came out. What has changed over time is the rate of levelling. Today it is about two-and-one-half times faster than before.

Now levelling itself has become a quest which explains what that guild memmber mentioned in the OP meant..

[Livmo]

I just run and have fun. The xp and levels come up along the way. And items too. However, I seldom TR. Not a big fan of that and ship buffs. My focus is on fun and not grind. I'm not impressed by past life feats or how big someones ship and buffs are.

I think the bravery bonus peeps probably scare off allot of new players. I'm so tired of people whining about the BB and their streak. I've only been playing for little over a year and that is a turn off for me.

[IlmethSoultaker]

All players must level to keep doing quests and if they level then they must upgrade their gear. That has been true for more than forty years since the first Written Rules-Based D&D game came out. What has changed over time is the rate of levelling. Today it is about two-and-one-half times faster than before.

Two points on this:
1) You don't technically have to keep leveling. As jalont wrote in the very first response to this thread, you can sit at the exp cap (2 exp levels ahead of your current minus 1 point) for as long as you like. So, if you don't like leveling, or want to level once every 6 months, you can play at a level for 6 months, level your character, and continue. Don't even have to worry about exp that way, can just enjoy questing and gearing up your character.
2) This is an online game loosely based on D&D. They are not the same thing, not even the same as the old Gold Box games you used to play. One of the biggest driving forces in this type of game is keeping people playing, and most people only keep playing for long periods with the illusion of advancements (such as by gaining levels). If the speed at which you gain exp is the problem, there isn't really going to be much that can help you, unfortunately. You can play less often for levels to come slower, but I don't think that is the goal of your post.

[Ungood]

How are you seeing my gear, Ungood? It is possible in a few other games but I could never figure out how to do it in DDO. If you point out which of my items is inadequate for a first-timer then I will make every effort to replace them. So, where do I get a "Twink Weapon" because I want one even though I do not know what it is?

All players must level to keep doing quests and if they level then they must upgrade their gear. That has been true for more than forty years since the first Written Rules-Based D&D game came out. What has changed over time is the rate of levelling. Today it is about two-and-one-half times faster than before.

Now levelling itself has become a quest which explains what that guild memmber mentioned in the OP meant..

Well since they took away MyDDO I can't. LOL.

But: Given you said this:

Since reaching level 8 the majority of my time has been spent questing for new gear to replace obsolete items and not exploring. Where's the fun in that?

I was simply addressing your discontentment on gear grinding, as opposed to your question of what was the value of leveling.

[Waaye]

[...]I think the bravery bonus peeps probably scare off allot of new players. I'm so tired of people whining about the BB and their streak. I've only been playing for little over a year and that is a turn off for me.

That is too funny,Livmo. A long time ago I looked up BB in several MMO dictionarys and the defintition was always Be Back. A BathRoom Break is a form of BB. When a LFM said no BB I thought it meant no breaks so I ignored it. Changing the defintion of commonly used terms is very confusing but thanks for pointing out how the term is being used in DDO.

You don't technically have to keep leveling.

In practical terms I really do have to increase levels. Clicking on some entry points just returns that I need to be level 12, or 15, or whatever. Many quests have a minimum level requirement because they don't scale by level as near as I can tell.

This is an online game loosely based on D&D. They are not the same thing, not even the same as the old Gold Box games you used to play.

To me, DDO seems a lot closer to the original MORPG, Neverwinter Nights, which was also a Gold Box game than to something like SWTOR. Online was never a huge success. The best selling Gold Box game sold 3 million copies but the MORPG version never had more than about 100,000 subscribers. The company lost 97% of their customers when they went online. They made good money though, because they charged $60 for the client and $1 per hour or so.

That was back when there were millions of computers in the entire world. Today, with billions of machines out there a company would need at least 10 million paying subscribers for the same level of success.

Since I was one of the 97%-ers I don't really know how fast characters advanced in the Gold Box NWN but since it used the same Gold Box engine as the others I assume it was at a similar rate.

You can play less often for levels to come slower, but I don't think that is the goal of your post.

My goal was to try to understand why that guild person thought my character's monniker, "Waaye Tou Sloe" meant that I was levelling too slowly. That name, which is well deserved, means I can zip along at a glacial pace that few youngsters could possibly hope to match. At least not without fidgeting and jumping around all over the place like they had ants in their pants.

[...]your discontentment on gear grinding[...]

There a few people in the world that actually enjoy repeating the same quest repeatedly to get gear. That is why the call it "grinding". Why do you make it sound like I am the first person in history to find grinding a grind?