Wyrm-wrought Crafting System Details

[Scraap]

nightmare the fallen moon was built around more 2wf to kill trash when they nerfed it, it was not so good anymore. What do bastard swords give that other weapons dont? Glancing blows with S&B or with a rune arm if your going to go 2wf dps why not just use a khopesh or if you cannot spare the feat a rapier or scimitar over a bastardsword? Unless you just want to duel wield bastard swords cause you think it looks cool.

Speaking of interesting mechanics as mentioned up-thread: I could see them get a lot of legroom out of some on-glancing-blow tech when it comes to trying to balance out some interesting utility for thf vs twf on the non-caster front.

[Mahalko128]

I apologize if this has been asked before, but do we need any pack to use this system?

Yes, this will most likely be a pack that you need to pay for.

[Krelar]

Now, I don't know about you guys, but if you ask me, it's pretty obvious that this will make by far the greatest bastard swords the game has ever seen by a long shot. Not sure how this affects other weapons, but the bastard sword will really get it's day however this system comes out.

How great is it going to be in the new end game raid against two red dragons?

[Mahalko128]

How great is it going to be in the new end game raid against two red dragons?

One is supposed to be frost based (don't ask me how a red dragon is frost based), so that sword would work wonders against it. As for the other red dragon, there are some nice negative energy alternatives that still put the damage over that of Nightmare or First Blood.

-Touch of Shadows: On Hit: 8 to 48 Negative Energy Damage.

-Dragon's Edge: Passive: Armor-Piercing 35%. On Crit: 33 to 105 Bleeding Damage.

-Burning Emptiness: On Vorpal: 55 to 110 Fire Damage every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. On Crit: 108 to 260 Negative Energy Damage.

[droid327]

Repeating Heavy Crossbow (BDR: 30.80, 3.5[1d10] + 9 Pierce 19-20 x2)
Blinding Fear: On Hit: 10% Chance Blind 3 sec (DC 55 Will Save vs. Fear), 5 sec cool down.
or
1st Degree Burns: On Hit: Applies a stack of Vulnerable (1% more damage for 3 seconds. This effect stacks up to 20 times, and loses one stack on expiration.) This effect may only occur on-hit once every two seconds. Also 5 to 30 Fire Damage.

2nd Degree Burns: On Hit: 10% chance to slow 50% (No Save) for 10 sec (non-bosses only).

Leg Breaker: On Hit: 5% Chance Reflex Save -5, Trip Attempt.

This could make a pretty awesome CC repeater for an Arti or Mechanic...DC55 is probably not enough for a reliable Will save at endgame, though - most of the DCs seem completely untenable for at-level content, in fact. But a 50% slow for 10s? And ranged trip (no save? whats the save?)? And does the Reflex -5 stack? So basically permaslow with +20% damage and occasional trips. That's some serious kite-ability. And then potentially ruin their defense to Evoc spells.

Probably for a Monkcher with the corresponding longbow too, as if they need more kiting power

[Nestroy]

anyway YAY!!! another crafting system, how long till this one is abandoned?

It get´s abandoned when 1st time a major bug in beta testing is discovered that takes a lot of time to fix. Then the beta gets life and we live with a half-baked system where several key elements do not work properly. The forums get filled with bug complaints, until the non-working feature gets removed and the system is declared WAI. We never get the fulll working system for one single day.

Alternatively, to our astonishement the system works. We get new contend and the system gets outdated.

Anyway, with the day the system goes life, the development on the system is abandoned for eternity.

And again we get a new system instead of reworking ALL crafting systems into one universal system that works. Count me most critical and unimpressed.

[FlaviusMaximus]

1.) the stock crit ranges and multipliers doom these weapons to being mediocre and uninteresting

The WW system has powerful on-crit damage dealing weapon effects that aren't balanced out like a lot of the existing on-crit weapon effects, at least as far as I know (different damage for a x2 multiplier than a x3 sort of being the norm now for on crit damage), which kind of creates an interesting weapon dynamic on its own.

Figuring out how the weapons compare at this point wouldn't require a ton of math (still more than I'm willing to do atm), but the on crit damage features that the weapons can have make larger crit range weapons like rapiers, scimitars, and falchions appealing without resorting having to changing their crit multiplier until they don't really resemble the weapons that they are supposed to be (Balizarde). The on crit damage kind of sucks for weapons like the Dwarven Waraxe, but it's nice that some of those larger crit range weapons that are traditionally considered a bit weaker could be getting a boost if some of this stuff makes it to live. I kind of hope they don't balance out the on-crit stuff for once.

[lyrecono]

Dear dev's?
Do you actualy play the game?

sight, here we go:

The base damage & critprofiles are far too weak for their lv (see ESoS and deathnip) add a +1 crit mod per tier, we need it in EE
We're missing too many options, where are the shields or are you sugesting we don't use those for bashing?
The slots, 1 red and 1 colorless? are you serious? lv 20 weappons have those, try this or this. Add non colerless slots with upgrade 2&3
Why ML 28? who stays there? why was greensteel such a succes? was it the power at end game or the ml 12 (or 8 for some) during a tr life? lower the min lv by 2 for each upgrade.
Why are there so little melee upgrade dps options?
Cost: coms of vallar? realy? howmany pages did we have about this crapy droprate?
Your suggested solution is a item we buy in the cash shop to increase the number in end rewards? Comms of failure indeed.
2 handed fighting gets the short end of the stick again, all these things help ranged and 2wf builds more.
And again still doesn't beat the ESOS
From wiki:
Welcome to the Release Notes for Update 3. These release notes were updated Wednesday, February 3rd 2010.
Not even discussing the (too high) placeholder data, this entire system needs to be redesigned from the core

I apologize if this has been asked before, but do we need any pack to use this system?

In order to get in you might have to run another pack (wich is p2p)

[Shaatan]

So, you use Commendations of Valor (BTC) but not Seeds (BTA) for this system? Oh, the joy of BTC upgrade mats. Also, I bet people will be very happy to realize that they can't use an already accumulated Comms in form of Seeds to buy/upgrade their new shinies. Why they even implemented those Seeds instead of making Comms BTA is a total mystery to me too lol.

[Wizza]

So, you use Commendations of Valor (BTC) but not Seeds (BTA) for this system? Oh, the joy of BTC upgrade mats. Also, I bet people will be very happy to realize that they can't use an already accumulated Comms in form of Seeds to buy/upgrade their new shinies. Why they even implemented those Seeds instead of making Comms BTA is a total mystery to me too lol.

Because they did state that they wanted Hearts to be BTA but the new future upgrades to be BTC. Also, why people have Seeds? Just turn them when you are actually going to ER..

[Shaatan]

Also, why people have Seeds? Just turn them when you are actually going to ER..

Because it saves up a lot of space? 2500 Seeds > 2500 Comms.

[Wizza]

Because it saves up a lot of space? 2500 Seeds > 2500 Comms.

Yeah but you (not you specifically) knew that they were coming up with a new upgrade system that uses CoVs sooner or later. Or at least you should have known it since they said it I agree with the point you are making about BTC and BTA and how the mats should be BTA (with the exception of 1 item, like Shroud) but can't blame them if you turned your comms into seeds.

[droid327]

So, you use Commendations of Valor (BTC) but not Seeds (BTA) for this system?

I imagine because they see these as "endgame" weapons, considering they're L28+. Presumably, at some point you're going to finish ETRing and be looking for "something to do" with your maxed-out endgame final-life character.

[lyrecono]

like what?
once you're geared out the only viable option is (E)TR-ing
It has been DDO's saving grace for the mmo players (instead of the flower sniffers, play once every forthnight, never get out of the harbor&market place types).

[Shaatan]

I imagine because they see these as "endgame" weapons, considering they're L28+. Presumably, at some point you're going to finish ETRing and be looking for "something to do" with your maxed-out endgame final-life character.

Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see any point or logic here lol.

They want to keep mats that upgrade "endgame" weapons BTC, because what? Because they are "endgame"? Well... maybe, but they didn't do it for other items that were considered "endgame" at their time, so why would they want to do it now?

So, people who are done with ETRing and/or people who consider ETRing or TRing in general a major waste of time (like me) should have their bags and inventories overflown with thousands of Comms? What if you are done with BOTH - ETRing and upgrading your weapons for the time being? Do you keep collecting Comms as they are and fill your whole inventory and bank with them over time or change them into Seeds, which saves space but makes them useless if you ever want to make another weapon?

If they really don't want Comms to be BTA, then something that turns Seeds back into Comms would be a good idea. A simple turn-in mechanic similar to Comm -> Seed but the other way around would be ideal, but if they want to complicate our lives a bit, they could make something funky with it. Be it a rare item that you need to farm (like yellow dopant) or just something free or easy to obtain but it would give back let's say 50%-70% of Comms that you used to make those Seeds.

[droid327]

Maybe I'm dumb, but I don't see any point or logic here lol.

They want to keep mats that upgrade "endgame" weapons BTC, because what? Because they are "endgame"? Well... maybe, but they didn't do it for other items that were considered "endgame" at their time, so why would they want to do it now?

So, people who are done with ETRing and/or people who consider ETRing or TRing in general a major waste of time (like me) should have their bags and inventories overflown with thousands of Comms? What if you are done with BOTH - ETRing and upgrading your weapons for the time being? Do you keep collecting Comms as they are and fill your whole inventory and bank with them over time or change them into Seeds, which saves space but makes them useless if you ever want to make another weapon?

If they really don't want Comms to be BTA, then something that turns Seeds back into Comms would be a good idea. A simple turn-in mechanic similar to Comm -> Seed but the other way around would be ideal, but if they want to complicate our lives a bit, they could make something funky with it. Be it a rare item that you need to farm (like yellow dopant) or just something free or easy to obtain but it would give back let's say 50%-70% of Comms that you used to make those Seeds.

The logic is that if you're still on the ETR train, then you save your Comms up towards a Heart when you hit cap. If you're done with the ETR train, then you use your Comms to gear up your endgame char for endgame content. Like others have pointed out, there's little point in investing too much in gear that's only usable at level cap, if you're only at level cap a relatively short while before you ETR again.

And, I guess to answer your question, if you're finished ETRing, and you're finished gearing up, and you have all the Comms saved up for the future that you want, and you have no alts that you want to convert Comms to Seeds for, then you just stop taking Comms in your end reward and take something else instead..,i mean, yes, at some point your character is "done" and there's nothing else to improve, that's just a reality of any MMO

I don't know what the max stack of Comms is (someone said 2500?) but a stack of 2500 would be well more than enough to create two fully upgraded WW weapons...I cant imagine that saving just one full stack of Comms wouldn't get you at least most of the way towards any future Comm-based purchases, when they're released, so its probably overkill to save up so many that you'd want to convert them to Seeds simply for storage efficiency.

[JOTMON]

The unique +1 DC bonus on 2-handlers seems a bit clunky. It's also not clear if it stacks with the +2 bonus at the next tier, and if that +2
bonus stacks with other DC bonuses.

I'm guessing that the +2, and +1 each stack individually with everything and that it's best to wield 2 caster sticks still for max DCs in the school you care about most, since you can't slot both the +2 bonus and the +6 bonus to a single school on one staff. Especially with necro-spec, for which no +5 focus non-weapon currently exists, there's no reason to make a two-hander under this system.



The implementation for 2-handed caster weapons here just seems awkward. The issue with caster staffs is that none exist with all the key stats you need to slot on weapons, thus you're forced to mix and match 2 caster sticks that do.

Look, what's going to get me to wield a two-hander instead of two caster sticks is actually getting at least two hands worth of needed effects, or something truly impressive for the sacrifice of another stick's worth of effects. As designed this system seems to go out of its way to give two-handers a bonus that is strictly inferior to what you can get by making 2 sticks.

^ pretty much this.

Dev's really need to recognize that a staff has to be as good as 2 single handed weapons. otherwise it will always fail. a 50% boost over a single hander doesn't cut it, or even some other minor increase.

A pidgeon-holed one trick pony caster could opt for a staff for the minor bump, but this is rarely the case..
Staves don't have Arcane boosts to affect all schools with a decent enough value to ever come close to equivalent dual wielding sticks.
Every caster I have has pretty much completely ignored every staff reward option in lieu of single handers... 2 handers are scrap compared to dual wielding.

Cant even use an orb with a staff...cant use a scroll with a staff,.. all fail mechanics The entire staff system needs to be revamped to accommodate these things.
Rework the staves so they are twice as good as single handers, allow them to be used with orbs and scrolls...

Until they do...caster staves = scrap...


Even after perusing these worm wrought staves... meh... kind of ok... junk compared to single handers....
I can already see these are so inferior to two single handers that even as a place holder without a drastic improvement I wont even bother to even think about crafting one.


Lets compare.. a Necro Wiz

Staff
T1
Wyrmic Nullification: Passive: +150 Equipment Bonus to Negative Energy Spell Power.
Wyrmic Minor Focus: Passive: +1 Unique Bonus to the DC to resist your spells. (DC Boost Available on Two Handers Only)

T2
Wyrmic Focus: Passive: +2 Bonus to all Spell DCs.
or
Wyrmic Necromancy Focus: Passive: +6 Equipment Bonus to the DC to resist your Necromany spells.
~ have to choose one or the other and depending on whether I can find a +5 Necro gear item and if the +2 stacks with slotted augment.

T3
Eternal Chilling Darkness: On Negative / Cold Spell Damage: +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once per 45 seconds).
or
Wyrmic Void Lore: Passive: Your Negative Energy spells gain a +22% Equipment Bonus to their chance to Critical Hit.
(not sure if it works with aura)
or
Wyrmic Lore: Passive: All your spells gain a +17% Equipment Bonus to their chance to Critical Hit.

T3 Bonus - colourless slot... a colourless slot...really... that is just sad....



Two single handers..

Stick 1
T1
Wyrmic Nullification: Passive: +150 Equipment Bonus to Negative Energy Spell Power.

T2
Wyrmic Necromancy Focus: Passive: +6 Equipment Bonus to the DC to resist your Necromany spells.

T3
Wyrmic Void Lore: Passive: Your Negative Energy spells gain a +22% Equipment Bonus to their chance to Critical Hit.

T3 Bonus
colourless slot...

Stick2

T1
Wyrmic Potency: Passive: +100 Equipment Bonus to Universal Spell Power.
or
Wyrmic secondary class: Passive: +150 Equipment Bonus to whicherver 2ndary class you choose...

T2
Wyrmic Focus: Passive: +2 Bonus to all Spell DCs.
or
Wyrmic Secondary Focus: Passive: +6 Equipment Bonus to the DC to resist your Secondary class choice

T3
Eternal Chilling Darkness: On Negative / Cold Spell Damage: +50 temp SP 30 seconds (triggers once per 45 seconds).
or
Wyrmic Lore: Passive: All your spells gain a +17% Equipment Bonus to their chance to Critical Hit.
or
Wyrmic secondary class Lore: Passive: Your secondary class Energy spells gain a +22% Equipment Bonus to their chance to Critical Hit.

T3 Bonus
colourless slot...


One hander.. any combination of the above at the same time. and extra sticks for more varying combinations.
only advantage to a 2 hander is the +1 unique bonus which is trumped by any dual wield combination easily...

Substitute elemental stuff for any Sorc with primary and secondary elements and ... still no comparison.. dual wield trumps single hander every time...

[Yalinaa]

I imagine because they see these as "endgame" weapons, considering they're L28+. Presumably, at some point you're going to finish ETRing and be looking for "something to do" with your maxed-out endgame final-life character.

I know when I finish my ETRing on multiple characters, I will farm sentient weapons instead!

[harry-pancreas]

Really all i play is my ranger , That bow will never be as good as a pinion , Crit range says all !!!!! + planar sets .

Im really more happy with non crafted named weapons at this point from what im seeing

i agree, we need more customizable armors IMO, and shields (but i don't expect much support on shields cause they're not being used a lot). If i recall correcntly, the only thing simillar to a craftable armor we got is DT and the cormiryan randomness

[Thrudh]

That epic bane of dragons is wimpy.

I shouldn't be using my esos on dragons when I have a fully upgraded WW Greatsword.

this is what the final tier upgrade should look like:

Epic Bane of Dragons: Your critical multiplier and critical threat range (after all other effects have been applied) on this weapon are increased by +1 when fighting dragons. Additionally, this weapons enhancement bonus increases by an additional +8, deals an additional 5d10 damage per successful hit, and has a 2% chance of producing a dragon slayer effect (manyshot or ten thousand star abilities cannot produce this effect on individual arrows, but instead may produce it each time a new set of arrows is fired). Glancing blow effects may trigger this bonus as a special effect.

Dragon Slayer: For the next 5 seconds, every attack you make versus a dragon is considered a critical hit, gains +5W and rolls the highest dice possible. You gain DR 100/-, bypass any dodge, incorporeal, or blurry draconic enemies, and your chance of producing an additional dragon slayer effect increases to 10% while benefiting from dragon slayer.


Hey, now that is kind've epic.

This why you're not in charge of designing MMOs.

Yeah that weapon is kind of epic... Now you've just made any boss dragon you face with that weapon about as scary as a giant rat, which isn't very epic.... OR, the devs will have to boost the dragons to be strong enough to withstand a weapon like that (or 6-12 weapons like that at the same time) for a decent amount of time, which means that fighting the dragons without that weapon will be a horrible horrible grindfest.