Adding comms to Otto's Boxes is a dirty move turbine. Pathetic and petty.

[Postumus]

Normally by the end of a life going from 1 - 20, running a heroic elite streak, I am around 300 or so by the time I cap, so that's 300+ runs to make around 4 million Exp. Given that very loose math, I would wager that to get 6 million EXP, should take you around 400 runs.

Fewer since the epic xps have a much higher base than heroic quests do. 120kish per normal VoN3 run. 80kish for spies. 80-100kish for normal wizard king.

Using just those types of quests around 60 runs. If you are someone like me who doesn't grind one quest to death, more like 100 runs not including explorers and slayers.

[Postumus]

The difference here is that a TR is 300+ runs of different quests (that's the whole idea of streak), while farming ER is maybe 20 quests at best.

Orrrrrrr there are over 80 L20+ quests and raids, 10 explorer areas, and about a dozen challenges. Even if you are sick of the Eberron epics, that still leaves around 60 quests & raids.

If you run every quest on hard and do some explorers, you'll hit 6 million.

If you want to grind the same 20 quests forever that's on you.

[Ovrad]

Orrrrrrr there are over 80 L20+ quests and raids, 10 explorer areas, and about a dozen challenges. Even if you are sick of the Eberron epics, that still leaves around 60 quests & raids.

If you run every quest on hard and do some explorers, you'll hit 6 million.

If you want to grind the same 20 quests forever that's on you.

Explorers don't give comms, most of the old epics give barely give any comms cause of the low levels, Wheelon gives me migraines cause of the purple-vision. Cut out a few more quests I just don't enjoy, and there's far less than 60 left.

If wiki is up to date, we only got 69 epic quests total counting all of them.

[Jasparion]

Orrrrrrr there are over 80 L20+ quests and raids, 10 explorer areas, and about a dozen challenges. Even if you are sick of the Eberron epics, that still leaves around 60 quests & raids.

If you run every quest on hard and do some explorers, you'll hit 6 million.

If you want to grind the same 20 quests forever that's on you.

This is what I did. All the FR epics on EH with a handful of repeats. I hit level 28 with 1,800 comms - having chosen comms at least 95% of the time.

We were told that if we ran EH to 28 we would have about enough comms to get a free Iconic TR. This has been proven to be completely and utterly untrue over and over and over.

Now we have a DDO producer telling us that the comms drop rate and 4,200 requirement will not be changing.

Make of that what you will. My response would lead to the post being deleted.

[Silverleafeon]

What I do mind however is that to be able to farm coms at a reasonable rate you have to farm EE only or go home and take out your wallet.

I guess the thread is moving off of Epic Otto's Boxes and unto the Heroic Coms themselves.

I have heard two methods of farming hearts lately, and neither one involves EE questing.

This first one, ironically, does not involve epic levels at all, it involves the high + low brothers system.
You have two toons, the one you want to epic reincarnate and another toon which is fairly well equipped:

Big brother toon goes to level 28, earning 20 tokens of the twelve in the process.
Big brother toon passes these tokens to little brother toon.
Little brother TRs back to level 1.
Little brother hits every quest once and done on heroic elite available.
When little brother hits 20, little brother takes a break.
Big brother takes the turbine points earned by little brother and uses them to buy an epic heart.
Big brother epic reincarnates climbing back to level 28, earning 20 tokens of the twelve in the process.
Big brother toon passes these tokens to little brother toon.
Little brother TRs back to level 1.
Little brother hits every quest once and done on heroic elite available.
When little brother hits 20, little brother takes a break.
Big brother takes the turbine points earned by little brother and uses them to buy an epic heart.
Big brother epic reincarnates climbing back to level 28, earning 20 tokens of the twelve in the process.
Big brother toon passes these tokens to little brother toon.
Little brother TRs back to level 1.
Little brother hits every quest once and done on heroic elite available.
When little brother hits 20, little brother takes a break.
Big brother takes the turbine points earned by little brother and uses them to buy an epic heart.
Big brother epic reincarnates climbing back to level 28, earning 20 tokens of the twelve in the process.
Big brother toon passes these tokens to little brother toon.
Little brother TRs back to level 1.
Little brother hits every quest once and done on heroic elite available.
When little brother hits 20, little brother takes a break.
Big brother takes the turbine points earned by little brother and uses them to buy an epic heart.
Big brother epic reincarnates climbing back to level 28, earning 20 tokens of the twelve in the process.
Big brother toon passes these tokens to little brother toon.
Little brother TRs back to level 1.
Little brother hits every quest once and done on heroic elite available.
When little brother hits 20, little brother takes a break.
Big brother takes the turbine points earned by little brother and uses them to buy an epic heart.
Big brother epic reincarnates climbing back to level 28, earning 20 tokens of the twelve in the process.
Big brother toon passes these tokens to little brother toon.
Little brother TRs back to level 1.
Little brother hits every quest once and done on heroic elite available.
When little brother hits 20, little brother takes a break.
Big brother takes the turbine points earned by little brother and uses them to buy an epic heart.



Method 2 involves zerging high level epic quests on hard not elite.



Personally, I would like to see heroic commendations offered thru Sagas.

[Ungood]

Fewer since the epic xps have a much higher base than heroic quests do. 120kish per normal VoN3 run. 80kish for spies. 80-100kish for normal wizard king.

Using just those types of quests around 60 runs. If you are someone like me who doesn't grind one quest to death, more like 100 runs not including explorers and slayers.

Really, it's that easy to go from 20 - 28? Just 100 quests?

Not saying you're wrong, but, that feels.. well, a awful less then I would have expected.

[BOgre]

100 quests is probably close. The average player will likely get around 45-50kxp on average per quest (mostly EN-EH), while the top 25% will get in the 60-70k range (mostly EH-EE). 6.6Mxp / (~60kxp/quest) is 100 quests. I didn't keep track, but I'd guess I ran about 120 quests plus a dozen hours or so of Wildies and Challenges from 20-28.

[Postumus]

Really, it's that easy to go from 20 - 28? Just 100 quests?

Not saying you're wrong, but, that feels.. well, a awful less then I would have expected.

My latest iconic is at L25 (3.3 million xps) and I've only run:

wiz king N X 3
Von 1 H X 1, N X 1
Von 2 H X 1
Von 3 N X 6, H X 2
Von 4 N X 1
Snitch N X 2
Murder by Night H X 1
Mindsunder E X 3
Spies in the House N X 1
Impossible Demands E X 1, H X 1, N X 1
Unquiet Graves H X 1
Lost Thread H X 1
Battle for Eveningstar H X 1
Claw of Vulkoor H X 1
Last Stand H X 1
Fathom the Depths H X 1
Into the Deep H X 1
Highroad slayers (200) & all explorers
King's forest slayers (200) & all explorers
Vale slayers (400) and all explorers

That's like 34 quests and the time it took to get explorers in three adventure areas. No pots.

Normally I wouldn't run VoN 3 that much, but I like that quest (and since they are nerfing the xps I figure I can run it once every other day or so and not get sick of it).

[Icywave]

100 quests is probably close. The average player will likely get around 45-50kxp on average per quest (mostly EN-EH), while the top 25% will get in the 60-70k range (mostly EH-EE). 6.6Mxp / (~60kxp/quest) is 100 quests. I didn't keep track, but I'd guess I ran about 120 quests plus a dozen hours or so of Wildies and Challenges from 20-28.

Seems about right. Even less quests with Von3 + Wiz King twice a day each.

[SilkofDrasnia]

I guess the thread is moving off of Epic Otto's Boxes and unto the Heroic Coms themselves.

I have heard two methods of farming hearts lately, and neither one involves EE questing.
...SNIP....

This kind of proves my point doesn't it though since peep are willing to go through such convoluted hoops.

This is what I did. All the FR epics on EH with a handful of repeats. I hit level 28 with 1,800 comms - having chosen comms at least 95% of the time.

We were told that if we ran EH to 28 we would have about enough comms to get a free Iconic TR. This has been proven to be completely and utterly untrue over and over and over.

Now we have a DDO producer telling us that the comms drop rate and 4,200 requirement will not be changing.

Make of that what you will. My response would lead to the post being deleted.

That is because the drop rate is balanced for EE runs and not for EH like it should be. Sad part of it is that I don't run wizking and only run von3 once a day and even then sometimes I skip my daily von3 run and I also only run EH with some occasional EE. lol

[Postumus]

We were told that if we ran EH to 28 we would have about enough comms to get a free Iconic TR. This has been proven to be completely and utterly untrue over and over and over.

Now we have a DDO producer telling us that the comms drop rate and 4,200 requirement will not be changing.

Make of that what you will. My response would lead to the post being deleted.

I agree that the 4200 is too high. I agree that one of the devs had said something to the effect that the 4200 was based off of what they thought someone would earn in a typical run to 28 and that they miscalculated.

[Ungood]

My latest iconic is at L25 (3.3 million xps) and I've only run:

wiz king N X 3
Von 1 H X 1, N X 1
Von 2 H X 1
Von 3 N X 6, H X 2
Von 4 N X 1
Snitch N X 2
Murder by Night H X 1
Mindsunder E X 3
Spies in the House N X 1
Impossible Demands E X 1, H X 1, N X 1
Unquiet Graves H X 1
Lost Thread H X 1
Battle for Eveningstar H X 1
Claw of Vulkoor H X 1
Last Stand H X 1
Fathom the Depths H X 1
Into the Deep H X 1
Highroad slayers (200) & all explorers
King's forest slayers (200) & all explorers
Vale slayers (400) and all explorers

That's like 34 quests and the time it took to get explorers in three adventure areas. No pots.

Normally I wouldn't run VoN 3 that much, but I like that quest (and since they are nerfing the xps I figure I can run it once every other day or so and not get sick of it).

Live and Learn.

That looks a lot easier then I have been dealing, as my highest toon is only 23, and it feels like I have done a lot more then 34 quests...

[Drwaz99]

My latest iconic is at L25 (3.3 million xps) and I've only run:

wiz king N X 3
Von 1 H X 1, N X 1
Von 2 H X 1
Von 3 N X 6, H X 2
Von 4 N X 1
Snitch N X 2
Murder by Night H X 1
Mindsunder E X 3
Spies in the House N X 1
Impossible Demands E X 1, H X 1, N X 1
Unquiet Graves H X 1
Lost Thread H X 1
Battle for Eveningstar H X 1
Claw of Vulkoor H X 1
Last Stand H X 1
Fathom the Depths H X 1
Into the Deep H X 1
Highroad slayers (200) & all explorers
King's forest slayers (200) & all explorers
Vale slayers (400) and all explorers

That's like 34 quests and the time it took to get explorers in three adventure areas. No pots.

Normally I wouldn't run VoN 3 that much, but I like that quest (and since they are nerfing the xps I figure I can run it once every other day or so and not get sick of it).

This is a great example of a first time run thru. But once you have done it and ER'ed, it becomes much, much slower.

No first time bonuses
No Streaks (can't tell how ran them so it may not apply)
No more explorers
Slayers get so high so fast it becomes inefficient at best after about 750 even with slayer boosts.

So yes, the first time around, 20-28 is really fast with no XP pots. Subsequent lives slow down easily by a factor of 3.

[jalont]

It's quite clear that epic hearts were meant to be a premium item with an annoying mechanic so the free loaders can get it for free, just like other premium items. I'm not sure what people don't get about that. You don't like that Turbine made it a premium item? Of course you don't. Everyone wants everything for free. Why should anyone care that there's this new thing that everyone wants for free?

[jalont]

So people are finally understanding "profiting irritation grind"? Its not surprising as they have been doing this for the past few years and a couple of us have been saying this all this time. They just make it more obvious now and you know people will buy them.

You have it completely backwards.

They are meant to be premium items. They are not meant to be free items. Turbine is a business.

Turbine hasn't implemented an annoying mechanic so that people have to bypass it. They've made a premium item and given freeloaders a way to bypass it if they wish. Think of it as a gift. The alternative is no free option.

[zwiebelring]

Nope, the alternative is: no ETR. And that's totally fine.

[jalont]

Nope, the alternative is: no ETR. And that's totally fine.

Well yes. People are free to pick that choice as well. I'm all for people living within their means.

[toaftoaf]

I agree that the 4200 is too high. I agree that one of the devs had said something to the effect that the 4200 was based off of what they thought someone would earn in a typical run to 28 and that they miscalculated.

i 100% think tirbine has not a clue how people play the game. its too bad there isnt something like a computer that could keep stats for them to read.

[jalont]

i 100% think tirbine has not a clue how people play the game. its too bad there isnt something like a computer that could keep stats for them to read.

I'm sure there is. And I'm sure the "average" DDO player is the complete opposite of 99 percent of the people on these forums.

[zwiebelring]

But who is the benchmark for the obviously miscalculated typical run to 28 then? The typical hardcore grinder? Or the weekend warrior? The approach for an ETR has to be either opportunistic or dedicated grind. Well, people don't play in only those 2 mindsets. In fact, heroic past lives are used in character planning.

Then ED twists/fate points were used in planning. And now ETR is used, but it is more annoying than heroic/ED grind since you just need those rewards, there is no big lvl. progress and for sure even less ED progress (ee in off destiny... yeah, sounds like fun). That grind bores the hell out of many players.

Switching between heroic TR and ETR just means more timesink. That all may be planned for business sake but the effect stays: boring boring grind. Yeah well, or pay way too much money for that stupid box. Of course there are more impatient players than patient and too many will buy it. That accelerated leveling heroic till ETR.

I think that's tedious. CoVs have to be as fast gathered as former Epic Tokens and have to drop for higher amounts and in all epic chests and epic raids. This micro tarnsaction bs has to stop somewhere.