Quivering Palm

[Willan]

I don't know if you forgot already but... You made sunder affect QP DC so that it would be relative in Epic content, specifically Epic Elite if you chose to build for it.


To change it now to a useless 50 DC max assuming you spent every single point into maxing wisdom.... It would take minutes at +4 DC per use to be able to QP an EE monster in GH.


I just restarted my VIP subscription but it looks like I'll be cancelling again.

[oweieie]

I don't know if you forgot already but... You made sunder affect QP DC so that it would be relative in Epic content, specifically Epic Elite if you chose to build for it.


To change it now to a useless 50 DC max assuming you spent every single point into maxing wisdom.... It would take minutes at +4 DC per use to be able to QP an EE monster in GH.


I just restarted my VIP subscription but it looks like I'll be cancelling again.

Yup, they nerfed void 4 out of existence and monk charming with it. QP was the only reason not to use a bow on Monk. Absolutely ridiculous that the unarmed class is now a splash only class for bow users.

[muder]

Dev tell me ranger and shiradi buildings is still a low rat in the world

[Kalevor]

what do u expect? like half the population of the forums claiming against the OP monks! I know that QP compared to the assassinate of a rogue is far more better, but it's the rogue DC that need a buff, not the QP a nerf!!

minewhile shiradi casters and archers run wild in EE

nonsense!

/rant off

[CaptainPurge]

We knew it was going to happen (QP nerf). We just didn't know how it would happen. So they are basically back-loading a timer instead of the 6s CD. LET'S RE-THINK SUNDERING AND MAKE EVERYONE REGEAR AND RE-SPEC. There goes my sweet shattering +12 shortsword. And also means if you want to be heavily QP based, time to re-spec for a higher level of Monk or up 1 to even out if that is your case.

Reference:
Melee Attack: Deliver a fatal attack by sending waves of vibrations through your target. A successful Fortitude save negates this effect. (DC = 10 + 1/2 Monk Level + Wisdom Modifier). When an enemy saves vs. Quivering Palm, you gain a stacking +4 Perseverance bonus to your Quivering Palm DC until you kill an enemy with Quivering Palm (or 3 minutes pass).

[CaptainPurge]

yep no more level greater than 12 for monks, if you can't get QP why bother. Insta-killing EE oranges in SH was fun, fast, and quickly re-chargeable, but now we'll re-think and re-build. Sick 6 second cooldown. See you March 10th.

[Raoull]

Absolutely ridiculous that the unarmed class is now a splash only class for bow users.

Nonsense!

It's a great splash class for everyone.
Monk is now Paladin's big brother class.


Ah well. I think I'll keep playing mine for a while, but I'm respecing him to strength. CC is great and all, but you've got to be able to kill something on occasion. We'll see if his DPS is enough to keep me interested in handwrap fighting or he needs to change outright....

[Teh_Troll]

I just restarted my VIP subscription but it looks like I'll be cancelling again.

A successful monk-nerf is successful.

Hopefully the first of many.

[RobbinB]

Yeah, not really understanding what the devs are thinking.

Problem 1. QP DC is too low for EPIC content.
Problem 2. Sunder is kinda meh, bonuses to sundering have no good utility.

Solution. Make sunder bonuses apply to QP making it useful again. Yeah.

New problem. QC DC is now too high as monks can instakill almost everything all the time.

Possible solutions:
-- increase the ki cost of QP slightly
-- adjust the formula to reduce the DC slightly eg starting value of 5 or 7 or 8 instead of 10, or DC = 0.85 * old DC or old formula with 0.75 * (tactics + sunder bonuses)
-- new formula with increased base value and maybe greatly reduced ki cost to counter the fact that it wont land all that often (this is not the best approach because it was cool that they actually made sunder bonuses relevant before)

Instead the proposed solution is to make QP useless again with a ki cost that doesn't justify ever using it.

[bartosy]

I don't know if you forgot already but... You made sunder affect QP DC so that it would be relative in Epic content, specifically Epic Elite if you chose to build for it.


To change it now to a useless 50 DC max assuming you spent every single point into maxing wisdom.... It would take minutes at +4 DC per use to be able to QP an EE monster in GH.


I just restarted my VIP subscription but it looks like I'll be cancelling again.

Instead of cancellingi suggest to try to play the 12 other classes might. Isuggest a pure halfling buffbo.. Eh i mean warchanter now they got everything. Songs and haste andit only takes 10 minutes of beating on an ee mob for it to die.

[thakorian]

Kinda feel like this nerf was initiated by a certain crowd of forum-dwelling egoists who can't stand to see others outperforming their preferred style of playing. I foresee this same thing happening to wizards pretty soon after the next patch is launched, as has been the case in the past. Nullifying the gear-grind and past-life buildup required for some builds to function by nerfing is not going to do any good for the already dwindling playerbase.

[edgarallanpoe]

I simply do not understand the rage against QP and Monks.

In every single D&D campaign I was in a well played monk was by-far the most powerful of classes.

Now, I understand that DDO isn't PnP. And the 6 second timer was admittedly silly. But there has to be a way to keep it relevant and extremely powerful. If sundering makes no sense...and I agree with this, then why not just make it DC=10+monk level+wis and make the cooldown longer? End game DC would be around 55 with a modicum of wis and higher if a toon maxes wis and uses yugo pots, etc... Maybe add 1/2 tactics to that if you feel that is too low?

I play several Monks and love the class. QP is not the be all end all of playing a good monk. They are very powerful toons even if their QP isn't insanely high. But the QP is really the quintessential monk move and should remain as such.

[DrakeFury]

I simply do not understand the rage against QP and Monks.

In every single D&D campaign I was in a well played monk was by-far the most powerful of classes.

Now, I understand that DDO isn't PnP. And the 6 second timer was admittedly silly. But there has to be a way to keep it relevant and extremely powerful. If sundering makes no sense...and I agree with this, then why not just make it DC=10+monk level+wis and make the cooldown longer? End game DC would be around 55 with a modicum of wis and higher if a toon maxes wis and uses yugo pots, etc... Maybe add 1/2 tactics to that if you feel that is too low?

I play several Monks and love the class. QP is not the be all end all of playing a good monk. They are very powerful toons even if their QP isn't insanely high. But the QP is really the quintessential monk move and should remain as such.

If cooldown was set to like 15 sec and formula changed to DC=10+monk level+wis i think QP would actually be ok. Adding tactics doesn't seem right, and if you want to make it work, use Sundering wraps or Imp. Sunder or some other way to reduce fort saves. Heck, i could even live with 30 sec cooldown with decent DC.

If you only reduce DC and cooldown remains, it becomes just spam button with procs never, so suppose most ppl will never use it

[Raoull]

Nonsense!

It's a great splash class for everyone.
Monk is now Paladin's big brother class.


Ah well. I think I'll keep playing mine for a while, but I'm respecing him to strength. CC is great and all, but you've got to be able to kill something on occasion. We'll see if his DPS is enough to keep me interested in handwrap fighting or he needs to change outright....

OK... I guess this nerf was alright.

Part of my annoyance with DPS on monks was that the CitW wraps were so horrible compared to other CitW weapons. Everything else had increased W damage, increased die, more damage affixes, etc. (Ok, not everything else, but the ones anyone uses.) And since stun and level drain have such synergy, Grave Wrappings were usually better wraps for the job than Antipodes. Sure, Thunder & Lightning are decent DPS wraps... but all their damage is from affixes, so none of it is multiplied by Fury or Blitz.


The new raids..... the Wraps work exactly like everything else. They not only get the metaline property everything else has (not as useful on monks, but nice) but they also have the exact same increased W that everything else has. Add to that the natural affinity the new weaps have with TWF... and monks can easily survive the loss of QP.

I had simply never taken into account the possibility that Turbine would get wraps right for a change..... Go figure.

[lauhon]

The new raids..... the Wraps work exactly like everything else. They not only get the metaline property everything else has (not as useful on monks, but nice) but they also have the exact same increased W that everything else has. Add to that the natural affinity the new weaps have with TWF... and monks can easily survive the loss of QP


^^^^ this....

The new handwraps have a base 2.5w... not 3.5 as stated.

Where's the increased W ??

[Raoull]

The new handwraps have a base 2.5w... not 3.5 as stated.

Where's the increased W ??

I doublechecked, it sure seems WAI to me.

I got 3 more dice while wearing my new wraps (they that first level of upgrade) than I got with old minlvl 7 TR twink wraps I had lying around.

For wraps, you don't get +dice for every W of a weapon, just every W of a weapon over 1. That initial 1W is included with your normal base dice.