Quivering Palm nerf

[DrawingGuy]

I will add to my horror of this possible change to Quivering Palm. The old base against the boosted DDO saves made it utterly useless. I understand that adding a boost on fails would make it eventually useful, but having to expend 30 Ki on a move that is useless for the first 5-10 clicks is just inane. I for one wouldn't waste my time and Ki - I'd just go with an elemental move that actually does something.

So obviously the concern here is how to bring it to something that you CAN build for, but make it where you actually have to take effort to reach reliable QPs.

One option is to have it as just a "combat" skill with no sundering - that automatically shaves off 10-12 DC. You can still get it into the 60 to 70 range with max investment, but it takes effort rather than the light investment it does now.

Another option (as suggested by Andoris), is to give more ways to boost Monk moves in general, as Quivering Palm was far from the only move that was useless outside of low level quests. ToD, Dismissing, Jade, etc are all moves that face low DCs as they have nothing to boost them. Putting QP at full level and making things like Henshin Mystic training apply to all monk moves instead of just finishers as well as having Grandmaster of Flowers apply to it all could be a nice overall fix. My only issue with this solution is it loses a bit of the "work" type investment with things like PLs into Fighter. It also forces being in GMoF for effective DCs as you can't twist and stat invest in other trees.

Then there is the third option - increase the timer and/or Ki cost. Also possibly bring it back to unarmed only.

That said, I also do think QP SHOULD be more successful considering it already has weak points.

Quivering Palm can only hit one target, costs Ki, requires you to be in melee range, requires you to successfully hit. It has a short cooldown, but you're stymied against groups of targets. If you can just face tank it, then you can slowly QP them through. If not, kiting could work for a bit, but you won't have the Ki to quickly dispatch them. Doesn't work on orange names+.

Assassinate has no cost, but you must be in stealth, easily hits two targets as it triggers on both the forward and back action of your swing and can hit more with double/offhand strikes, does 10d6 bonus damage on a save. Works on orange names, but not red names+ (though you still get the bonus 10d6, so worth first hitting from stealth). It doesn't reveal you from stealth, so you can slowly assassinate through everything assuming you have high enough sneak. Stealth has been greatly improved in the U19 pass, so even if you do get discovered, you can escape notice and continue on.

Death spells are ranged (other than Slay Living), Wail is PbAoE and works on even untouchable targets (suck it earth elems), cost SP. They also have rather long cooldowns, but with multiple death options, handling large groups is easy assuming you have your DCs in place. Anything your Wail doesn't kill, you just finish off with Fingers and Power Words. There's a reason they're "god mode" once they reach no fail DCs. SP is a "limiting" factor, but with so many clickies and regen options, lasting between shrines is not difficult. Of course there are always SP pots for infinite SP if you are so inclined.

Wiz/Sorc should have the most difficulty reaching DCs due to their multitude of insta-kill options that include AOE kills. Assassinate does indeed need a little love on their DC options - more items (instead of only two, one an Iconic only and the other an old Epic) including ones that reach +5. Also the possibility of Rogue past lives adding +1 would be welcome. Quivering Palm Monks is actually the weaker kill option, but as it's easily reached, anyone can do it, and thus everyone does. So the key term is to either take it out of easy reach, or make it have a heavier price... however the u21 proposed solution is not the right one.

[Epitome]

QP is not a tactical feat,
not on lama, so nothing is added to it. No idea what it is on live. my monk is on a fighter life so.....
made a test on lama 18 monk 2 fighter.

fighter enhancement tactics- no
LD tactics - no
GMOF tactics - no (really)
Epic feat tactics- no
I did not check racial or fighter past lives, but doesn't look promising.
So it more than a -10 - 12 or so, its way more.

This is what I was afraid of, nerfed into the dirt if that is how it acts on lama with the change.

[Meat-Head]

Currently QP is equivalent to Power Word Kill -- make the cool down 3 minutes and we can talk

This is not remotely true. Getting the DCs we're talking about is NOT easy. Currently there are very few who do it. I'm the only one in my guild/alliance/vent crew that has a serious DC monk like this. Mine's a completionist with 3 ftr lives, EE shadowsight, etc.. I'm still at 75-- not 80+

Also, AGAIN, you have to be in a mob's face to QP.

Also, PW:kill's CD can be reduced.

[Violith]

This is what I was afraid of, nerfed into the dirt if that is how it acts on lama with the change.

sadly, I'd have to retract pretty much all of my previous statements and agree. I wouldnt have thought it possible, or rather hoped it wouldnt be. that they'd remove so much from a DC ability.

however, since the notes only refers to sundering. I'd still have to say that it 'Should' still be a tactical feat, and thus should get the bonuses from everything else still so I'd consider it a bug currently, granted, it may as well be WAI for them. still, going to bug report it.

[Meat-Head]

QP is not a tactical feat,
not on lama, so nothing is added to it. No idea what it is on live. my monk is on a fighter life so.....
made a test on lama 18 monk 2 fighter.

fighter enhancement tactics- no
LD tactics - no
GMOF tactics - no (really)
Epic feat tactics- no
I did not check racial or fighter past lives, but doesn't look promising.
So it more than a -10 - 12 or so, its way more.

0



THis is absolutely horrible.


You're supposed to what build it up over half a quest so you can QP 1 mob, then build it up again to qp 1 more mob before the end fight?

Time to TR my main to a monkcher.

[Grizzt14]

Here we go again another nerf gone way way too far... A DC that starts out far too low to be useful in EE or even EH (and not even remotely close to PM areas) and requires the monk to consistently burn a considerable amount of ki by firing off Quivering Palm in the hopes it eventually gets enough +4 DC stacks to work once, and then rinse repeat. Not only does this make no sense from an instakill standpoint, the ki would be much better spent on consecutive Fists of Iron and other dps abilities. This is a lazy fix (not even a fix really, returning an ability to uselessness) at best Devs, rework the nerf to leave Monks with a truly functional DC and none of this stack nonsense or leave Quivering Palm DC where it is on Live and increase the cooldown and ki cost to make it a highly successful but fairly uncommon instakill ability.

[Arianka]

0

Time to TR my main to a monkcher.

i will do the same.

[Willan]

I can confirm when they removed sundering it has removed every single thing that could add to the DC.... time to cancel my subscription again. Hope you guys enjoy never taking more than 6 or 12 monk again.

[Correlan]

The nerf wouldn't have been quite so bad if they'd just taken away the bonus from sundering items. As it stands, running around with a 45 dc to QP makes it pretty much a useless bonus feat for monk, to make it anywhere near useful with this change, you'd have to use it around 6-7 times to build it up to a decent dc that will land. When it could have done with a slight touch of a feather, the devs have waded in with a cricket bat and smashed it to a pulp. Way to go.

[Arianka]

the mor i think about this the more it bugs me.

they buffed QP cuz it stunk and was never used. now they nerf it allmost all the way back to its former uselessness. end result is it will never be used......again!

doesnnt make any sence at all.

[Ovrad]

the mor i think about this the more it bugs me.

they buffed QP cuz it stunk and was never used. now they nerf it allmost all the way back to its former uselessness. end result is it will never be used......again!

doesnnt make any sence at all.

What do you mean almost? It is going back to the totally useless state it was before.

[Arianka]

What do you mean almost? It is going back to the totally useless state it was before.

not quite, ur forgetting the +4 to dc if mob makes its save on an earlier attempt. it keeps building up so eventualy u will get a good dc. using it only twice in a dungeon is slightly better then not using it at all....i guess.

[Teh_Troll]

Time to TR my main to a monkcher.

Good. Hopefully Turbine will nerf that next.

[Wipey]

yea. I can say for certain that a necro DC caster is nothing like a monks DPS. my necro can barely make it through ANY EE wheloon quest since saves are high yet alone any higher lvl quest

Necro is borderline God mode in EE Wheloon.
I do Mirror, Tracker's or Break in Ice or whatever with a palemaster friend almost every day, both enchant and necro is very effective on trash, and I don't think one should have SP to take down any EE bosses alone anyway.
Necro only loses a bit of steam in Stormhorns, enchant still almost no fail.

Work on your DCs

[oweieie]

QP was perfect the way it was, difficult to get to be useful in EE stormhorns, took a lot of character development and a lot of sacrifice of DPS and flexibility and survivability, but you could get it high enough to be worth using. Just.

Now it won't even work in EN.

I swear Turbine is even dimmer than Teh_Troll.

[muder]

I think QP is not monk's all,monk is bad at boss battle.
and rangers Adrenaline is the great bug , but tubine dont nerf it at all

[ValenGodspeed]

I think QP is not monk's all,monk is bad at boss battle.
and rangers Adrenaline is the great bug , but tubine dont nerf it at all

If your monk sucks at boss battles then you are doing it wrong. Most FoTs I participates in have monks tanking both bosses usually with remarks like "no I dont need heals, I can handle this alone".

[Munkenmo]

Implementing this change by itself is poor.

If the devs were serious about balance, they'd kill furyshot and blitz whilst rebalancing hp.

This particular change is just a poorly thought out reaction thanks to forum whining.

The first point of balance should have been to simply remove the 1/2 monk level from the dc calculation.
Second would be to boost the dc on assasinate.

Why spend time thinking though.

[PrimalConcreteSledge]

Yes, it's a nerf.

Did you take a risk and roll a character based on an obviously broken ability, hoping to exploit it for months before turbine does anything about it? I feel your pain but i don't feel sorry for you. You took the risk, you have had your fun and now you can reroll.

[muder]

If your monk sucks at boss battles then you are doing it wrong. Most FoTs I participates in have monks tanking both bosses usually with remarks like "no I dont need heals, I can handle this alone".

FOT is easy, can u handle the boss in "The Thrill of the Hunt" on EE mode? rangers can and without any drangerouse .(by the way I only do EE differcult with friends)