Pure Clieric Divine Disciple that can also heal raids/parties

[slarden]

I am currently working on some iconic past lifes and filling in missing heroic past lifes at the same time. I plan to be done with iconics in 1-2 weeks and then will ITR to what hopefully will be a long-term divine build. I've been on the fence between FVS and Cleric but decided to try cleric. I originally thought I would choose morninglord as my final build, but after playing one I came to the conclusion the racial tree investment is too high and not worth the loss of a feat and enhancements from other cleric trees.

Goals of this build:

Prmary Goals
- Effective healer in raids
- Able to contribute both DPS and healing to an EE party
- Evocation spells are effective in EE content
- Able to solo EH content and limited EE content
- Epic TR about once per week
- Run the new raids at least twice per week. Run FOT and Zawabi's Revenge when time permits.

Secondary Goals
- Necromancy DC is useful for most EH quests
- No investment in Spell Pen - it's good enough for EH and for EE it is only really used for power word stun and energy drain. If the spell pen isn't good enough for a specific enemy I won't use those spells.
- Using the gear I have - I don't want to start farming now with 2 level 30 raids coming out soon.

I would appreciate any feedback on the build that is consistent with the goals.

I am not looking to solo EE with this character. The trade-offs aren't worth it in my opinion and I prefer grouping.

Leveling strategy:
- Before each ETR I will bank all 6 epic sagas for the next life so I start at or close to level 22 each life.
- Quickly level to 24 by running high xp quests. This gets me ready for higher level EEs. (typically less than half a day)
- Once I get to 24 start focusing on raids, higherlevel EE quests and coms for the remainder of the week.

Level 1 stats:

STR 8
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIS 18
CHA 12

All leveling points will be distributed to Wisdom.

Selectable Feats:
1: Maximize
1: (Bonus Human Feat) Empower
3: Completionist
6: Arcane Initiate Past Life
9: Quicken
12: Empower Healing
15: Spell Focus Evocation
18: Heighten
21: Greater Spell Focus Evocation
24: Epic Spell Focus Evocation
26: (ED) Spell Power 20 - Light
27: Ruin
28: (ED) Guardian Angel


Skills:

Spellcraft
Heal
Jump
UMD
leftover points TBD

Tomes:
STR +4
DEX +4
CON +5
INT +4
WIS +5
CHA +4

Enhancements:
TBD

The gear varies by level so I won't list it all. For weapons I use red-slotted random loot whenever possible.

Twists:
+3 Evocation DC (Magister)
+2 Evocation DC (Draconic)
Boulder Toss (Fury of the Wild


Wisdom (varies from level 22-28)
18: Starting
5-7: Level Ups
7-11: Item (Standard Wisdom modifier)
1: Exceptional item
2-3: Insightful item
7: Enhancements
6: Epic Destiny
5: Tome
2: Completionist
-------------------
53 - 60 Total Unbuffed and without temporary effects

Evocation DC (Varies from level 22 - 28):
10: Base
9: Spell Level with Heighten
21-25 Wisdom Modifier
5: Epic Destiny twists
2: Enhancements
1-2: Yellow Augment
3-5: Item
2-3: Evocation Feat line
1: Past life wizard selected feat
3: Past life sorc passive feats
----------------
57-65: Total unbuffed and without temporary effects

Necromancy DC (Varies from level 22 - 28) - only useful in EH:
10: Base
9: Spell Level with Heighten
21-25 Wisdom Modifier
1-2: Yellow Augment
3-5: Item (situational)
1: Past life wizard selected feat
----------------
45-52: Total unbuffed and without temporary effects

Spell Penetration (Varies from 22 - 28) - only useful in EH and situationally EE for energy drains etc.
20: Base
0-3: Item
3: Enhancements
9 Past Lifes passive feats
-----------------
32-35: Total unbuffed and without temporary effects

Enhancements
----------------
TBD - will be filled in later, but about 80% of it is fairly straight-forward and obvious. Investing in divine disciple and getting some other goodies and more wisdom from the other trees.

[slarden]

[placeholder for enhancements and spell list after I have some time to think about it more]

[firemedium_jt]

Twisting Cocoon might save you spell points for dps casting especially if you decide to go all in for Tier 5 DD instead of Aura.


__________________________________________________ _-

How come all the feats for Spell Focus? Why not some feats in Spell Penetration, so you can add both through EDs. Epic Spell Focus does not seem worth it for just +1. You only need SF for EDs, and not GSF I think too. Free up some feats for Spell Pen? There are so many ways to get SF and SP up through enhancements it seems best to just take the required feats and up them manly with heroic and epic enhancements.

I never played a caster though. I also notice many going Necro instead of evocation for epic. Energy drain and such they like it in Epic.

[SirValentine]

Twisting Cocoon might save you spell points for dps casting especially if you decide to go all in for Tier 5 DD instead of Aura.

I didn't see where OP specified which destiny/destinies they plan on running in.

How come all the feats for Spell Focus? Why not some feats in Spell Penetration, so you can add both through EDs. Epic Spell Focus does not seem worth it for just +1.

DC is more important than Spell Pen. Why? Because lots of mobs just don't have Spell Resistance at all.

Though you make a good point about having 1 Spell Pen feat just to allow situational twisting-in on an additional +6 Spell Pen when needed.

I also notice many going Necro instead of evocation for epic. Energy drain and such they like it in Epic.

Well, not for Energy Drain...you don't need to Necro-spec at all for that. For Destruction & Slay Living.

Evoc has a couple advantages: easier to get good enough DCs & able to get higher DCs (Sorc Past Lives, Draconic twist); also synergy with various nuking spells/abilities.

[slarden]

Twisting Cocoon might save you spell points for dps casting especially if you decide to go all in for Tier 5 DD instead of Aura.

This idea has alot of merit especially for raids. I will definitely look at making better use of cocoon.

How come all the feats for Spell Focus? Why not some feats in Spell Penetration, so you can add both through EDs. Epic Spell Focus does not seem worth it for just +1. You only need SF for EDs, and not GSF I think too. Free up some feats for Spell Pen? There are so many ways to get SF and SP up through enhancements it seems best to just take the required feats and up them manly with heroic and epic enhancements.

I never played a caster though. I also notice many going Necro instead of evocation for epic. Energy drain and such they like it in Epic.

SirValentine answered alot of these questions already. My thinking may evolve as I get more experience with it.

Since part of my goal is gaining epic past lifes I will only be at level cap towards the end of the week. So for most of the week my DC will be low 60s range even with past life benefits. That won't be a no-fail dc so I decided to focus on maxing that out rather than being more of a generalist. I have 2 twists tied up in my evocation DC so this only gives me 1 twist spot to work with. The only spells in my rotation on EE that are subject to spell penetration are energy drain, power word stun and situationally bestow curse. In EE quests where my spell pen isn't no-fail, I don't need to rely on those 3 spells to be effective - they are lower level epic quests anyhow. I just didn't feel it was worth the investment to focus on spell penetration at all. Everything is subject to change once I have more experience in my final build. For now my experience has been with a shadar-kai 19 fvs/rogue 1 and morninglord cleric 20.

EH is a different situation entirely. I was spamming destructions in EH and it rarely failed below stormhorns EH even with no investment in the necro line- just my investment in wisdom and past lifes. It wasn't working too well in stormhorns EH. For EE I tried going dark divine disciple line with necro focuses and more spell pen (morninglord) and what I found was that my necro still wasn't good enough while epic leveling and with a lower evoc DC some enemies were evading my backups too often. The only thing that was effective was healing - so this is why I decided to focus mainly on Evocation DC for now. When I switched to evocation I was much more effective in wheeloon and stormhorns. The reason I listed boulder toss as my possible third twist is that I don't have enough fate points for energy burst and even if the enemy makes their save I am still seeing around 2k damage on average for 0sp and a reasonably fast recharge considering it's a 0sp clickie. This was a nice help to have against enemies with improved evasion that are either evading or taking half damage. This is also why I chose Ruin as the level 27 spell - expensive but with no saves it can be useful in some situations.

[SirValentine]

This idea has alot of merit especially for raids. I will definitely look at making better use of cocoon.

I'm happy to entirely switch my twist set for different content. For FoT, I take Cocoon and Energy Sheathe, for example. For easy content where my DCs are already good enough, Energy Burst, Boulder Toss & Wild Shots help kill stuff even faster. For max DCs, Precise from Draconic, Specialist from Magister, same as you, plus Acute Instincts from Fury for +1 more to all DCs (via +2 Wisdom).

I have 2 twists tied up in my evocation DC so this only gives me 1 twist spot to work with.

Which ED were you planning on running in? Other than it's super-long range coming handy in FoT, I don't miss Cocoon at all if I have Renewal from EA. Cheaper, and much faster cool-down.

The only spells in my rotation on EE that are subject to spell penetration are energy drain, power word stun and situationally bestow curse.

Wait, no Implosion? CASTING Implosion doesn't have a Spell Pen check, it always grants you your Implosion Aura even if YOU have high Spell Resistance. But when the Implosion Aura then attempts to kill an enemy, that DOES have to check to penetrate any mob Spell Resistance. The spell description saying not subject to spell resistance is technically true, but very misleading.

[slarden]

I'm happy to entirely switch my twist set for different content. For FoT, I take Cocoon and Energy Sheathe, for example. For easy content where my DCs are already good enough, Energy Burst, Boulder Toss & Wild Shots help kill stuff even faster. For max DCs, Precise from Draconic, Specialist from Magister, same as you, plus Acute Instincts from Fury for +1 more to all DCs (via +2 Wisdom).

Which ED were you planning on running in? Other than it's super-long range coming handy in FoT, I don't miss Cocoon at all if I have Renewal from EA. Cheaper, and much faster cool-down.

Wait, no Implosion? CASTING Implosion doesn't have a Spell Pen check, it always grants you your Implosion Aura even if YOU have high Spell Resistance. But when the Implosion Aura then attempts to kill an enemy, that DOES have to check to penetrate any mob Spell Resistance. The spell description saying not subject to spell resistance is technically true, but very misleading.

Thank you - these are excellent points. I do switch in energy burst and swap out -2 DC for EH runs. I was not aware of acute instincts, but that might be the way to go.

Since I am working on epic past lifes my ED will change based on the sphere I am in. Right now my thinking is:

Divine: Exalted Angel
Arcane: Draconic (lose 3 DC but gain some nice damage abilities)
Primal: Shiradi immediately comes to mind but Primal Avatar also has some potential. With both I can take +6 wisdom
Martial: Grandmaster of Flowers is the only one that makes sense here - +6 wisdom and save bonuses basically

With this build I don't have any horrible destines, Even though draconic works off stat bonuses I don't have (cha / int) I was still seeing nice damage numbers in the druid chain EE which is the only time I used it so far. I didn't run draconic in wheeloon or stormhorns yet - but I expect it to be less effective there.

Thanks for the tip on renewal and cocoon. I need to try out both to get familiar with them. All my characters are self healing so I haven't made use of either yet except when in the destiny.

I appreciate the info about implosion. The tool tip says no spell resistance check but I did suspect that was wrong just based on experience. Now I understand it better and may revisit spell pen.

[slarden]

The build has been about what I expected it to be. It's an absolute killing machine in lower level EE and EH content. With no feat/ED investment in necromancy the mid 50s Destruction is no-fail on most enemies in eberron EEs (except GH). It does reasonably well in motu EE It works great on EH everywhere except stormhorns and some high fort enemies in a few other areas.

On higher level EEs most of my kills come form implosion which makes sense since that is where feat/ed investment is- averaging about 3 kills per cast in places like wheeloon. Energy bust isn't as good on this character since it's Wisdom-based, but it's still a useful spell in EE since it can hit so many enemies at once.

It's easy to switch to healing mode. Healing EE FOT was no problem. The lack of evasion is a non-issue with spell absorption.

This build is not effective at soloing higher level EE. I did try a few and although I was able to finish, I went through alot of pots to do it. Aside from implosion, energy burst and the SLAs the dps is very expensive. The character is an effective party-member in those same quests on EE.

The character is effective in exalted angel, grandmaster of flowers and shiradi champion. All 3 have the ability to boost wisdom and offer other benefits that are usable. It will take me a while to finish ETR in those spheres, but once I am done I would like to try a cha-based fvs focusing on draconic and light spells without a save. I think that is how I will finish off the arcane tree- but it will be a long time before I get there.

[lowfuel1]

Is there somewhere I can learn what the abbreviated terms mean? I am looking at creating a cleric but about 75% of what is being said in the comments is like trying to read a foreign language.

[SirValentine]

Is there somewhere I can learn what the abbreviated terms mean? I am looking at creating a cleric but about 75% of what is being said in the comments is like trying to read a foreign language.

Hmmm....I don't know off-hand any master list. But let me try to get the ones in this thread for you.


ITR = Iconic True Reincarnation, when an Iconic character starts over from level cap back to a beginning character, acquiring class-based and race-based Past Lives


FVS = Favored Soul, a class


DPS = Damage Per Second, ability to hurt enemies quickly


EE = Epic Elite, a difficulty (really just "Elite" for Epic-level quests)


EH = Epic Hard, a difficulty (really just "Hard" for Epic-level quests)


TR = True Reincarnation, when a character starts over as a beginning character, acquiring a class-based Past Life


ETR / Epic TR = there is no such thing. People sometimes erroneously say this when they really mean "ER" = Epic Reincarnation, when a character goes from level cap to level 20 to acquire an Epic Past Life


FOT = Fall of Truth, a level 25 raid in Gianthold


DC = difficulty class; how high one must roll to acheive something; typically, for player spells, how high enemies must roll to avoid the negative effects of the spell; also, for traps, locks, etc., how high the player must roll to disarm/unlock it or such


STR = Strength, a basic ability score
DEX = Dexterity, a basic ability score
CON = Constitution, a basic ability score
INT = Intelligence, a basic ability score
WIS = Wisdom, a basic ability score
CHA = Charisma, a basic ability score


ED = Epic Destiny, a special type of enhancement that can be earned by characters of level 20 or higher


UMD = Use Magic Device, the most useful skill in this game


TBD = To Be Determined


DD = Divine Disciple, a Cleric enhancement tree


OP = Original Post; in some contexts, can mean "over-powered"


EA = Exalted Angel, an Epic Destiny

[unbongwah]

Is there somewhere I can learn what the abbreviated terms mean? I am looking at creating a cleric but about 75% of what is being said in the comments is like trying to read a foreign language.

There's this old thread; hasn't been properly updated in ages, but a lot of the old terminology still applies.

[lowfuel1]

I'm an old P&P player (1st & 2nd editions) and a little slow on picking up on the slang. I played for a while back a couple of years ago but left it to Champions Online with a couple of old friends and have come back. I've deleted all of my old toons and starting over. So far I only have a fighter but was thinking my 2nd might be a cleric. I downloaded the planner and have used it on my fighter and would like to plan out a cleric. I'm leaning toward a healer type. What kind of suggestions do y'all have for planning an effective healing cleric?

[Ancient]

I'm an old P&P player (1st & 2nd editions) and a little slow on picking up on the slang. I played for a while back a couple of years ago but left it to Champions Online with a couple of old friends and have come back. I've deleted all of my old toons and starting over. So far I only have a fighter but was thinking my 2nd might be a cleric. I downloaded the planner and have used it on my fighter and would like to plan out a cleric. I'm leaning toward a healer type. What kind of suggestions do y'all have for planning an effective healing cleric?

I'd recommend the build in this thread (take toughness instead of completionist). Just about any cleric can heal just fine, being able to survive and help kill also contributes to keep the party alive and finishing the task faster.

[lowfuel1]

I'd recommend the build in this thread (take toughness instead of completionist). Just about any cleric can heal just fine, being able to survive and help kill also contributes to keep the party alive and finishing the task faster.

I will give that a try

[unbongwah]

Also have a look at Ellis's Necro cleric and sirgog's Radiant Titan