Let's Talk About Update 21 XP Changes

[Grizzt14]

Overall, I like the rebalance of quest experience, even with a decrease to VoN3 (Which like it or not, was needed.). I particularly like the focus on Stormhorns and Wheloon, which while being the newest content to DDO, I think is largely avoided for xp due to the accessibility and/or xp per quest of the VoN chain and Epic Gianthold.

All around, well done. Looking forward to more news about U21!

[Teh_Troll]

The Shadowfail content should have the XP doubled, at least.

[nibel]

Jungle of Khyber isn't run so much simply because it's worth a giant pile of exp, but also because it's a fairly straightforward quest. There's no annoying hoops to jump through, no puzzles, no back and forth running. Just a more or less straight line to the end with a boss fight. It's just a simple standalone quest, worth good exp, that's right next to the Airship.

The airship port is the ONLY thing that makes it different from your average FR quest. Tracker's Trap, Break in the Ice, WGU, Detour, Lost in the Swamp, End of the Road, Disciples of Shar, Escape Plan, Shadow of a Doubt, Friends in Low Places, A Lesson in Deception, and The Thrill of the Hunt are basically a straight line, with maybe some optionals in a side way, no puzzles, and no back and forth running.

Out of FR, we also have TTT, Snitch, Big Top, Phatom the Depths, Claw of Vulkoor, VoN 1, VoN 4, OoB, Lords of Dust, Servants of the Overlord, and Beyond the Rift. All simple and straight and without puzzles.

The main reason people run Von 3 so much is the XP. Plain and simple. It is a simple and fun quest, but is hardly the only epic one with those characteristics.

[rayworks]

No to nerfing VON3. Why is it you - the Devs - always pull out the nerf bat instead of just buffing the others? People whined about sorcs being OP, so you nerfed them a bit. But you didn't buff Pallies or Bards.

In other words, don't "fix" what isn't broken. Fix what is broken.

[rest]

I should mention that we're thinking about a content change to House of Death Undone (where/how you get the key) that would affect its XP/minute. That will not make it into Update 21, though.

There's a key in Death Undone?


Huh.

[Jasparion]

No to nerfing VON3. Why is it you - the Devs - always pull out the nerf bat instead of just buffing the others? People whined about sorcs being OP, so you nerfed them a bit. But you didn't buff Pallies or Bards.

In other words, don't "fix" what isn't broken. Fix what is broken.

To date they have buffed about 30 dungeons, and nerfed 1.

And how can you say VON3 isnt broken? Please explain in great detail, because I cant wait.

At least be honest and say "dont nerf it because I love chain farming it for super fast levelling". Then they can add your feedback and decide whether it really is appropriate for some dungeons to provide massively more XP than other dungeons on a per minute rating.

[voodoogroves]

Just going to put this out there.

With COMMS where they are, XP isn't what you should focus on at all. The VON XP is nice - but at this point a red herring. You guys are about 3 moves back from where the board is now.

I wouldn't bother with too much XP increasing or decreasing until you straighten out comms. Of course, maybe you guys are working on it and just not communicating that - but it looks like another left-hand/right-hand miss the mark things ... similar to your loot pass a while back.

[Havok.cry]

My feedback:
Increased XP for the druid's curse quests will not make up for the mind numbing boredom of the quests themselves unless it is a very very large increase.

Increased XP will not make up for the real life health hazards of running any quest with the shadow fell's purple haze, no matter how large that increase is. Your quests here are causing real actual pain to people, not figurative eye bleeding but actual real pain. Why is turbine okay with this?

[Cyr]

We also wanted to give people time to get familiar with the Shadowfell Conspiracy quests before we started changing their XP values.

Okay sorry, but that is backwards. Pretty much every person commenting upon shadofail quests noted the horrible xp/min. You guys should have put out reasonable numbers to start with. There is no reasonable reason to wait to make adjustments to new content when players have clearly made their opinions heard in every step of the process already.

[Cyr]

Just going to put this out there.

With COMMS where they are, XP isn't what you should focus on at all. The VON XP is nice - but at this point a red herring. You guys are about 3 moves back from where the board is now.

I wouldn't bother with too much XP increasing or decreasing until you straighten out comms. Of course, maybe you guys are working on it and just not communicating that - but it looks like another left-hand/right-hand miss the mark things ... similar to your loot pass a while back.

Agreed.

Comms are a mess.

[Kasiddy]

<snip>
For other quests we're evaluating what the right fix is. Should we adjust the base XP? Change the optional XP? Alter the contents of the quest itself? Or some combination of the three? Given the sheer number of unique quests in DDO, it will be a while before can we give every one the full attention it deserves.
<snip>
Knockback
Senior Content Designer

In general, alter optional XP and give XP during the quest for completing significant objectives. Adjust base XP down if this would bloat the total XP for a completion.

Examples most people should be familiar with:
Give XP after each wave of attacks in The Last Stand in the Fens.
Give XP after defeating each apprentice necromancer in Black Loch in Sentinels Chain.
Significant XP for each mini-boss in Offering of Blood in sands (OK to adjust base XP down with a change like this).
Ditto Detour.
Big XP bump for high striker games in Big Top, with more random and creative encounter results after "winning."

Part of the reason quests like Von 3, Deleras 2, Gwylans, Redwillow, and (I would add for myself personally) Desert Caravan is not just the base XP but the rewards you get along the way for optionals. Even if you don't complete for some reason you still have some modest XP reward. I've added Desert Caravan as it is the only timed or protect-type quest that comes to mind where you gain XP for staying in the quest and protecting. Every two minutes, I think, plus orange-named that pop along the way. If a certain quest in Threnal was made more like this I suspect it would generate slightly less forum rage. Or maybe not.

[Trillea]

To date they have buffed about 30 dungeons, and nerfed 1.

And how can you say VON3 isnt broken? Please explain in great detail, because I cant wait.

At least be honest and say "dont nerf it because I love chain farming it for super fast levelling". Then they can add your feedback and decide whether it really is appropriate for some dungeons to provide massively more XP than other dungeons on a per minute rating.

VON 3 is *not* broken. Every other quest in the game is. Bring the XP/min up to the levels of VoN 3, triple comm output (or cut the number needed to 1400-ish) and make ETR the new revolving-door that heroic TR used to be.

[Sebastrd]

I, too, am more interested in seeing optionals get a boost. Optional XP should be based on time of completion relative to the main quest objectives and difficulty.

For example, in House of Death Undone most of the optionals are only worth 5% of the base XP even though some of them can more than double the time it takes to complete the quest. How does that make any sense? In House of Broken Chains the optional to preserve the slaves during the end fight may not take long, but it's so difficult that 5% bonus XP isn't remotely worth the effort.

[Huascarino]

Hold for Reinforcements needs the base XP increased by about 1000%!!!

maybe 10.000%. And a easy solution for Von 3? Make the 2 final fights (3 named and final fight) as hard as on elite on normal. And scale it up on different difficulty.

If your way of thinking is this, the Pit should give 300.000 xp, but for the few of us that knows it, this will be so overpowered...

[rayworks]

And how can you say VON3 isnt broken? Please explain in great detail, because I cant wait.

VON3 works. No bugs, no issues with spawns not appearing when they should. It works. If the devs "fix" VON3 its more likely they'll screw it up. Fix what is broken first.

[Rhysem]

VON 3 is *not* broken. Every other quest in the game is. Bring the XP/min up to the levels of VoN 3, triple comm output (or cut the number needed to 1400-ish) and make ETR the new revolving-door that heroic TR used to be.

This.

With the daily repetition penalty, I don't see a problem with von3 being high. So what? Casuals who have family/life/whatever obligations can keep up? Oh noes! Gotta keep the rabble down.

Also this is 100% worthless without knowing what the adjustments were.

[PsychoBlonde]

Yep, Wheloon and Storm Horns have some of the most godawful XP values in the game, even with first-time bonuses and all that jazz. I'd like to see the optional XP increased in Trial By Fury, personally, I like to *do* that quest instead of skipping 95% by hopping past barriers, but most people don't even want to THINK about doing it that way. It's actually a pretty neat quest and it doesn't take all that long, it's just that the "get X stones" optional XP is SO low that there's precious little incentive to bother.

When you're tweaking quest xp, please consider not just how long it takes to do the quest but how long it takes to get TO the quest--and don't assume that everyone is going to have the teleporter to get out there quickly. The Demonweb, Wheloon, and Storm Horns quests, along with Unquiet Graves, The Lost Thread, Chains of Flame and Against the Demon Queen are all a LONG run through an outdoor area that eats time on your XP pots and ship buffs and whatever else you might have going on. That, and a LARGE percentage of people who join LFMs have NO IDEA where these quests are, meaning you either leave them to fend for themselves because they've never heard of Google or you take even longer handholding them.

This is also an important thing to consider for the forthcoming Epic Three-Barrel Cove because some of the quests (Scoundrel's Run and Ghost of a Chance specifically) are WAY WAY WAY OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE and, at present, there are NO teleporters out there, either.

[Huascarino]

Comms are a mess.

agreed.

[murf201]

Im assuming they feel as the newer quests and raids come out , There will be quests with 80 comms on end rewards on EE and so on !!

Plus with more levels you will be needing to wait longer and run more content to reach 4200 comms .

They have a window frame in there planning for you to earn comms and its playing all the epic quests till you cap , When the new quests and raids come out this year and even further you will be alot more close when running all this content to reaching 4200 comms

Now i really don't care about the number right now , Just as long as that number don't change when there's an abundance of new content spilling 100 comms a popp on EE

[PsychoBlonde]

To date they have buffed about 30 dungeons, and nerfed 1.

And how can you say VON3 isnt broken? Please explain in great detail, because I cant wait.

At least be honest and say "dont nerf it because I love chain farming it for super fast levelling". Then they can add your feedback and decide whether it really is appropriate for some dungeons to provide massively more XP than other dungeons on a per minute rating.

Von3 nerf doesn't matter, people will just go farm the first 4 optionals in Crucible more.

I generally do a couple of Von3 runs daily to "warm up", pretty much, but they're hardly necessary for leveling and the comm return is poo. I'd probably just run slightly more sagas.