Let's Talk About Update 21 XP Changes

[Powerhungry]

By raising the experience in epic quests means characters will level faster and have even less time to earn commendations of valor with each life. By lowering the comms to exp ratio players will have to farm even more while capped or buy even more hearts from the store. Every epic player knows the 4200 comms is way to high and this will only exacerbate this issue.

[Eth]

And how do you determine which quests takes longer to walk?

For example, I can get to WGU in less than 2 minutes with just 30% striding (not counting loading screens, as they're different for everyone), but there are people that takes 5 or more.

Also, someone said that belly takes few minutes of running. Indeed, I saw quite few people lost in underdark, but for me, it takes longer to run from eveninstar well to underdark portal, than from portal to quest entrance.

It would be really hard to balance time spent at wilderness to quest XP, especially, that while far from entrance some quests are close to each other.

For epic lvls? 30% striding. Most direct way. Shortcut teleports included (except those paid with astral shards). Measure the time. Translate into xp/min. Done.

[Stonemerge]

What you need to change, if you want us to run those quest is the reachability of the quests. They have to be less than 2 minutes and at worst at 2 loading screen from the Guild Ship.

agreed 100%

i play GH 1 time per life ... to much running around

i play 3rd ES chain 1 time per life ... i usually need an hour to find the quests

i play Menech 1 time per life ... running

i play Rusted daily ... but the other 2, 1 time per life - running

-

but eVoN - daily, Snitch - daily, Tide - daily, LoD daily ... shorter quests without running 20 mins until im near the quest entrance

[FranOhmsford]

There is ONE Quest in this game that I'd like to see Nerfed XP Wise - And yes I know I'm gonna get flak for this BUT:

SHADOW CRYPT!!!

Maybe a First time Per Account XP Boost could be added for Quests like this when the possibility of your 1st run taking forever makes it a good idea to give out a &$£"load of XP.
BUT
This quest is STILL Farmed to Death {On 8 Gear runs so NOT for the Loot either!} because it's XP is simply INSANE!

The only difficult part is the Vamp Himself {And then Only if you have 6 Melees - And NO DR Breakers!}.


Suggestion:

-NERF the Base XP by 33%!
-Add 25% Base XP Boost to 12 Gear Optional!
-Up the Drop Rate on Named Items to Sane Numbers!
-And IF Two {or more} Rooms are activated at the Same time APPLY HARRIED DEBUFF!!!


Actually this Last Point should be considered in quests like Wiz King too - Might FINALLY Stop the Solo a Tower Cr@p!!!


There are other anomalies BUT Shadow Crypt really takes the Cake as the Most Insane XP Quest in the game!

As for Other Quests:

At Lvl 7-8 we have a Number of High BASE XP F2P Quests like:
Gwylan's Stand
Tear of Dhakaan
Stormcleave Outpost

Then we have a Quest that is just as long as these but is nowhere near as popular:
Caverns of Korromar

Caverns has very Low BASE XP for it's duration YET makes up for this with a LOT of Easy to get {and NOT REALLY...} Optional XP in it!

Boost Caverns BASE XP by say 10%
AND
Nerf the BASE XP of Gwylan's, Tear and Stormcleave WHILE Boosting their Optional XP so as to make Shortcutting thru them less Popular!


At Lvl 6:
-Redwillow's Ruins could do with maybe a 10% BASE XP Boost

At Lvl 10-11:
-Chamber of Rahmat and Offering of Blood are BOTH the Wrong Level in the Compendium!
You did it with Cabal for One!
Now do it for Other Quests!
Move CoRahmat to Lvl 11 along with the REST of the Sands Walkups!
AND
Move OoB to Lvl 12 along with CoF and Wiz King!!!!!

Also Chamber of Rahmat and Chamber of Kourush have absolutely terrible XP - Add a 50% BASE XP Boost for Clearing Optionals!

BTW The Gnolls at the start of these quests are by far the hardest part - Does there REALLY have to be quite so many Casters {and Healers} amongst them?


At Lvl 15-16:
OK Lords of Dust is NOT a Lvl 16 Quest!!!
AND
In the Flesh is Way too Difficult relatively to it's "Supposed" Level!!!

Swap these two around for Goodness Sake!!!!!

Move Lords of Dust to Lvl 15 Base
Move In the Flesh to Lvl 16 Base

No Need to Change ANYTHING in these quests APART from their Lvl!!!!!

Also:
-Reduce the Hezrou Respawn Spam in Spinner of Shadows - It gets Ridiculous at times and Seems Random too!
-I do Like Random Traps BUT Beyond the Rift takes it to Extremes!
Sometimes there's NO SpellWards in there at ALL!
Sometimes they're Everywhere!
I haven't seen the one by the 1st Shrine {2nd Part of Quest} since the week the quest came out!


FINALLY
--------

Nerfing or Buffing Base XP or Buffing Optional XP is OK BUT The Biggest Issue for Me with Quest XP in this game IS Lvl based!

We have a HUGE amount of Lvl 2-5 Quests Currently - Many of Which are simply the Wrong Level for the Current Game!

The Solo Quests should ALL be Moved to Lvl 1 {And optionally also moved to Korthos!}

Butcher's Path, Stealthy Repo and Garrison's Pack could do with being Upgraded to Lvl 3

Swiped Signet, Sacred Helm and Pt 1 of STK Should be Upgraded to Lvl 4

Proof is in the Poison, Freshen the Air and Irestone Inlet feel like Lvl 5 Quests

Phiarlan Carnival could be moved to Lvl 6 in it's ENTIRETY so long as The Snitch was Made Significantly Harder on Heroic!

Delera's Pt 1 would also Benefit from a Move to Lvl 6 so as to be better aligned with the rest of the Chain.

Lair of Summoning and Chamber of Insanity could both be Upgraded to Lvl 6 too!

Waterworks Pt 3 and 4 could be downgraded to Lvl 3

Catacombs Final Quest could be downgraded to Lvl 3

The Depths of Doom and Discord could be downgraded to Lvl 4

Halls of STK could be downgraded to Lvl 4

Dead Predators could be downgraded to Lvl 5

Tangleroot Gorge
----------------
Upgrade Pt 1&2 to Lvl 4
Downgrade Pt 9&10 to Lvl 6
For a 3 Level Range rather than a FIVE Lvl Range!!!
{Btw The Same thing could be done For Sorrowdusk too!!!}


AND For Goodness Sake Upgrade the Max Level for Cerulean Hills Slayer to Lvl 5!

[zaphear]

You couldn't increase Wheloon enough to make it desirable.. It's one of the most, if not THE most, painful chains to do in the game. All the mobs in there have cheap nobrainer annoying difficulty checks, uncurable howler quills are a joke, Shadar Kai chains of annoying death are another. And the Exp, even if increased 100% is STILL abysmal.

Could really care less about VoN3, it does need to be reduced. It's ridiculous how much experience that quest gives for how easy it is.

[zaphear]

There is ONE Quest in this game that I'd like to see Nerfed XP Wise - And yes I know I'm gonna get flak for this BUT:

SHADOW CRYPT!!!

Maybe a First time Per Account XP Boost could be added for Quests like this when the possibility of your 1st run taking forever makes it a good idea to give out a &$£"load of XP.
BUT
This quest is STILL Farmed to Death {On 8 Gear runs so NOT for the Loot either!} because it's XP is simply INSANE!

The only difficult part is the Vamp Himself {And then Only if you have 6 Melees - And NO DR Breakers!}.


Suggestion:

-NERF the Base XP by 33%!
-Add 25% Base XP Boost to 12 Gear Optional!
-Up the Drop Rate on Named Items to Sane Numbers!
-And IF Two {or more} Rooms are activated at the Same time APPLY HARRIED DEBUFF!!!


Actually this Last Point should be considered in quests like Wiz King too - Might FINALLY Stop the Solo a Tower Cr@p!!!


There are other anomalies BUT Shadow Crypt really takes the Cake as the Most Insane XP Quest in the game!

As for Other Quests:

At Lvl 7-8 we have a Number of High BASE XP F2P Quests like:
Gwylan's Stand
Tear of Dhakaan
Stormcleave Outpost

Then we have a Quest that is just as long as these but is nowhere near as popular:
Caverns of Korromar

Caverns has very Low BASE XP for it's duration YET makes up for this with a LOT of Easy to get {and NOT REALLY...} Optional XP in it!

Boost Caverns BASE XP by say 10%
AND
Nerf the BASE XP of Gwylan's, Tear and Stormcleave WHILE Boosting their Optional XP so as to make Shortcutting thru them less Popular!


At Lvl 6:
-Redwillow's Ruins could do with maybe a 10% BASE XP Boost

At Lvl 10-11:
-Chamber of Rahmat and Offering of Blood are BOTH the Wrong Level in the Compendium!
You did it with Cabal for One!
Now do it for Other Quests!
Move CoRahmat to Lvl 11 along with the REST of the Sands Walkups!
AND
Move OoB to Lvl 12 along with CoF and Wiz King!!!!!

Also Chamber of Rahmat and Chamber of Kourush have absolutely terrible XP - Add a 50% BASE XP Boost for Clearing Optionals!

BTW The Gnolls at the start of these quests are by far the hardest part - Does there REALLY have to be quite so many Casters {and Healers} amongst them?


At Lvl 15-16:
OK Lords of Dust is NOT a Lvl 16 Quest!!!
AND
In the Flesh is Way too Difficult relatively to it's "Supposed" Level!!!

Swap these two around for Goodness Sake!!!!!

Move Lords of Dust to Lvl 15 Base
Move In the Flesh to Lvl 16 Base

No Need to Change ANYTHING in these quests APART from their Lvl!!!!!

Also:
-Reduce the Hezrou Respawn Spam in Spinner of Shadows - It gets Ridiculous at times and Seems Random too!
-I do Like Random Traps BUT Beyond the Rift takes it to Extremes!
Sometimes there's NO SpellWards in there at ALL!
Sometimes they're Everywhere!
I haven't seen the one by the 1st Shrine {2nd Part of Quest} since the week the quest came out!


FINALLY
--------

Nerfing or Buffing Base XP or Buffing Optional XP is OK BUT The Biggest Issue for Me with Quest XP in this game IS Lvl based!

We have a HUGE amount of Lvl 2-5 Quests Currently - Many of Which are simply the Wrong Level for the Current Game!

The Solo Quests should ALL be Moved to Lvl 1 {And optionally also moved to Korthos!}

Butcher's Path, Stealthy Repo and Garrison's Pack could do with being Upgraded to Lvl 3

Swiped Signet, Sacred Helm and Pt 1 of STK Should be Upgraded to Lvl 4

Proof is in the Poison, Freshen the Air and Irestone Inlet feel like Lvl 5 Quests

Phiarlan Carnival could be moved to Lvl 6 in it's ENTIRETY so long as The Snitch was Made Significantly Harder on Heroic!

Delera's Pt 1 would also Benefit from a Move to Lvl 6 so as to be better aligned with the rest of the Chain.

Lair of Summoning and Chamber of Insanity could both be Upgraded to Lvl 6 too!

Waterworks Pt 3 and 4 could be downgraded to Lvl 3

Catacombs Final Quest could be downgraded to Lvl 3

The Depths of Doom and Discord could be downgraded to Lvl 4

Halls of STK could be downgraded to Lvl 4

Dead Predators could be downgraded to Lvl 5

Tangleroot Gorge
----------------
Upgrade Pt 1&2 to Lvl 4
Downgrade Pt 9&10 to Lvl 6
For a 3 Level Range rather than a FIVE Lvl Range!!!
{Btw The Same thing could be done For Sorrowdusk too!!!}


AND For Goodness Sake Upgrade the Max Level for Cerulean Hills Slayer to Lvl 5!

Holy cow.. really? You hate solo'ers don't you? People don't play YOUR playstyle so screw them huh. Why stop the solo towers for Wiz King? It's extremely efficient and an enjoyable quest designed just like that.

[danotmano1998]

1. Please fix commendation drops. Either reduce the number required for a heart or increase the number awarded from quests.

2. Make the teleporter guy in wheloon able to teleport you to the quest FREE after the first time you do them.
That wilderness area is painful in so many ways.

3. Increase every raid's xp significantly.

Thanks for increasing the xp in shadowfell and the druids curse finally!
Von3? Meh. Put the values back to what they were pre-xp rebalance and it'll be fine.


Thanks for your communication, Knockback.

[Teh_Troll]

LOLz . . . tripling the XP of Shadowfail won't make people run those quests any more.

Explorer areas are too much of a pain. Stormhorns is too big, Wheloon gets quadruple spawns and lags out entire parties. They are too difficult to run fast, if at all, in off-destinies needed for the ridiculous karma farming on EE.

Another dumb idea.

[CaptainSpacePony]

So, here's what I'd like the devs to do:

1) Add up all the xp someone would get from running all the epic quests on EN and EH and taking xp as saga rewards:

2) Adjust epic xp and make it so that that number = 6,600,000...

I disagree. There should not be such a strong relationship between content and advancement. Although you didn't say it, I could infer from your suggestion that as more content is released, all XP should be reduced to that there's just enough to cap.

[Uidolon]

optionals should be boosted:

why=zerging should leave the option if to run the optionals or skip them up to the players as both options should give roughly the same amount of exp. this enables the player to play as he wants to.

my own point of view is that its basic economics a matter of balancing incentives to give players the most amount of choice. doing optionals as a standard right now as i calculate it on a average more then cuts the exp/time in half or more. the choice in quests if to do optionals should be based on if you enjoy that quest design not on a math calculation.

this being said id like to caution you that most quests are not suited to become the new "flavor of the month 1once-a-day quest" like von3 was there is always going to be such a quest if you don't wildly alter the exp to cap you have basically made sure of this with your game design.
while players should be given the choice on what quests to run to get exp certain quests are better designed to be zerged*1.



*1 zerged= way of running a quest for its exp in a manner close to perfection in relation to exp/time since repeated so many times

[Acaios]

if you nerf the xp of von3 too much, imo people will turn to the next thing for quick daily xp, which probably is von5. it`s been done to some extension in my server (argo), but not too often. but if that`s the next big thing, then i see that people will prefer to never run von6, so that they`ll be always offtimer for their daily von5s. and since you cant redbox von5 like adq1, you`ll be killing von6 raid, one of the few raids that is being run kinda regularly.

i agree too about the coms not being offered in the end reward list. make them drop in the end chests, just like epic tokens do -even if they cant be shared between players if u want to discourage dualboxing farming. also, if 4200 is a good number for you, for eTR, keeping in mind that it`ll stay the same when it`ll be required the toon to be lvl 30, i`d propose that 4200 should be then. and now that the cap is 28, to be reduced to 3000-3500.

i also agree with the guy who wrote about xp distribution between quest and optionals to be like tear of dhakaan.

also something needs to be done about the dizziness from transition between standar colors and purple environment in WGU. and perhaps the duration too, coz for 2-3 seconds you dont see where you`re going. resulting to potential deaths from mobs if you stay still or falling from the cliffs if you keep moving around.

edit: a guild portal/planescaler should be added for e-star

[happybaby]

You can zerg for your XP. Someone else can do a full explore for their XP. Both should be totally viable options.

+1

[CaptainSpacePony]

Blasting through level 20 quests have more to do with toons with maxxed out destinies than level.

Try running EH VON3 with a fresh group of level 20s vs a group of level 20s decked out in ED. Guess which group is going to blast through everything?

Sure, it's great fun for you to blitz your way to level 28. Sadly, the new guy without any ED experience basically has to pike his way to 28 watching others blitz and furyshot everything.. that's just wrong.

It's sad, but ED's should be level banded. Epic level questing is just so messed up unbalanced thanks to EDs.

Very true, but that boat sailed a long time ago.

[Cordovan]

Thank you, everyone, for your feedback. Keep it up! Just chiming in to say I've now read all of the posts to this point. Much appreciated.

[CaptainSpacePony]

Hi,
...
What Goes Up is a good one, but seriously, putting the shadowfell effect on top of a white surface at the end fight? I don't like it when it becomes a hassle to complete a quest because some game designer thought it was a good idea that I not be able to see what I'm doing. Tell me again why you are making it unpleasant and uncomfortable to play your game, because I don't understand.

On top of that, I wonder if it has occurred to someone at home office that building the current amount of inaccessibility of these quests into the wilderness area design... Seems like that might be shooting yourself in the foot.
...
Thanks.

A couple of important points there.

I don't like what goes up because I can't see anything in the end fight. I'm told if I turn my video down it gets better. I haven't tried that because I don't want to and feel I shouldn't have to. A purely emotional response, but I play for fun and that is not fun for me.

I personally thing travel to quests is a good part of game design. BUT the travel hassle (time and difficulty) should be factored into the reward design (Loot, xp, comms, etc). This does not seem to be done in DDO. I also think travel design should be balanced. DDO has a LOT of no hassle to get to content. A lot of the Shadowfell expansion's content has a high hassle to get to factor. I personally think that was too much at one time.

[Mryal]

This is all fine and good but.Why are we even discussing and rebalancing epic xp when the true xp bar for epic lives is not 0-6,600,000 exp, but 0 - 4200 comendations.When are we getting a rebalance to comendations, so that you dont have to get enough 'exp' to TR twice before you get 4200? Focus guys.focus

[FranOhmsford]

Holy cow.. really? You hate solo'ers don't you? People don't play YOUR playstyle so screw them huh. Why stop the solo towers for Wiz King? It's extremely efficient and an enjoyable quest designed just like that.

You missed the Point!

I Solo all the time {yes with a Hireling!}.

I have NOTHING Against someone Soloing {with or without Hireling} Wiz King {Obviously this is the ONLY part of my post you actually read!}.

My Suggestion would simply cut out the Solo a Tower Cr@p!

You want to Solo all 3 Towers go right ahead!

Heck grab Ransack, Conquest and Ingenious while you're at it!!!

BUT

If you're gonna Group Up - GROUP UP!

It's NOT a Race!



Wiz King would be a GREAT Quest if the Devs had made it so you couldn't enter Tower 2 or 3 till the Previous Tower/s were Done!

As it is It's possibly my least favourite quest in the Game!

Simply because of the Elitism of the Be able to Solo a Tower or Don't Join LFMs that have been Ubiquitous for as long as I've been playing this game {Going on for 4 years now!}.


Heck I have characters who I know Could Solo Wiz King at Level on Elite BB - I Won't Join Solo a Tower LFMs though!


And I don't see why ignoring Ransack, Conquest, Ingenious etc. Should give NOT ONLY a Faster Completion BUT More XP too!!!!!

Running Two Quick Completions SHOULD NOT give as Much XP in ANY Quest as Grabbing EVERY Optional Does!


And yes I can see that the Be able to Solo a Tower LFMs would also start requesting you have Rogue/Arti Levels and KILL/SMASH Everything!!
SO
Simply Upping the Optional XP is NOT going to make the Difference!

So - Apply the Harried Debuff if TWO Rooms of Mobs {In different Towers} are Active at the Same time {No Matter HOW MANY Mobs are Active!}!!!


The Only reason Players fight for their right to "Solo in Groups" is because of the Meta-Game and their Knowledge of the Quests!

The Devs Simply CAN'T Randomise the Quests well enough to Stop this from Happening so other means of Keeping Parties together must be Looked at!


Soloists can always Solo - Heck I solo all the time myself!

But when I join {or make} a Party I'm NOT Looking to SOLO!

[SilkofDrasnia]

No one forces anyone to employ cheese like you suggest. There are/were plenty of cheese int he old content as well. Shrug. Personally I melee fight karleth in thrill, stay visible in Mirror Darkly, run up and fight the melee in Tracker's trap. You see I choose to actually play the game I pay for rather then looks for ways to avoid the game. I kind of wonder why people that cheese out DDO even play. I figure that they usually quit rather quickly and move onto something else.

And most of us don't care how you play the important thing is that your having fun, isn't that the point? Maybe try it out sometime, stop caring how others are playing and having fun cause really it isn't really any of your business and nerfing other peoples fun for some kind of moral imperative like you seem to want to do is getting old, tedious and stupid.

Get you own circle of of like minded friends in game and play as you wish. Allow others to do the same instead of playing the forum "you should play my way" game.

But when I join {or make} a Party I'm NOT Looking to SOLO!

Use the lfm and put up your own with no zerging or flower sniffers only? Simple. This whole malarkey of trying to get people to play one specific way whether it's to zerg or not zerg needs to stop. There is no right way to play the game and trying to force people to play a way you "feel" is "right" is just wrong.

Have fun your way and let others have fun their way.

[Lifespawn]

You missed the Point!

I Solo all the time {yes with a Hireling!}.

I have NOTHING Against someone Soloing {with or without Hireling} Wiz King {Obviously this is the ONLY part of my post you actually read!}.

My Suggestion would simply cut out the Solo a Tower Cr@p!

You want to Solo all 3 Towers go right ahead!

Heck grab Ransack, Conquest and Ingenious while you're at it!!!

BUT

If you're gonna Group Up - GROUP UP!

It's NOT a Race!



Wiz King would be a GREAT Quest if the Devs had made it so you couldn't enter Tower 2 or 3 till the Previous Tower/s were Done!

As it is It's possibly my least favourite quest in the Game!

Simply because of the Elitism of the Be able to Solo a Tower or Don't Join LFMs that have been Ubiquitous for as long as I've been playing this game {Going on for 4 years now!}.


Heck I have characters who I know Could Solo Wiz King at Level on Elite BB - I Won't Join Solo a Tower LFMs though!


And I don't see why ignoring Ransack, Conquest, Ingenious etc. Should give NOT ONLY a Faster Completion BUT More XP too!!!!!

Running Two Quick Completions SHOULD NOT give as Much XP in ANY Quest as Grabbing EVERY Optional Does!


And yes I can see that the Be able to Solo a Tower LFMs would also start requesting you have Rogue/Arti Levels and KILL/SMASH Everything!!
SO
Simply Upping the Optional XP is NOT going to make the Difference!

So - Apply the Harried Debuff if TWO Rooms of Mobs {In different Towers} are Active at the Same time {No Matter HOW MANY Mobs are Active!}!!!


The Only reason Players fight for their right to "Solo in Groups" is because of the Meta-Game and their Knowledge of the Quests!

The Devs Simply CAN'T Randomise the Quests well enough to Stop this from Happening so other means of Keeping Parties together must be Looked at!


Soloists can always Solo - Heck I solo all the time myself!

But when I join {or make} a Party I'm NOT Looking to SOLO!

no

I'd be all for randomized quests but i'm not looking to go slow through a dungeon i've run a bazillion times because people like you decided a group should do 1 tower at a time i simply won't run it and if they changed all the quests to be like that i simply wouldn't play.

[Guanmagi-1]

LOLz . . . tripling the XP of Shadowfail won't make people run those quests any more.
Another dumb idea.

Quadrupling?