Best Righteous-Focused options

[Nodoze]

Note: Please note that I changed the Title of this First Post but haven't figured out how to change the Title of the thread from "Best Righteous-Focused options" to "Best Righteous Ameliorating Strike builds" so sorry for any confusion to those who come to this thread after the change...

My hope is that people reading this thread will share their thoughts and ideally any fully fleshed out builds. I reserved a few posts after this initial post so that if we have good discussion and people post links or builds (or I find them in other threads) I can add them to the beginning of the thread so people don't have to read the entire thread to get the most important information... I will try to keep this Initial Post (IP) and the other top reserved posts updated with the most important pieces of information...

After discussion/feedback in this thread the purpose of this thread has been refined to be focused on finding the "Best Righteous Ameliorating Strike builds" for those who are also interested in trying to fully leverage Ameliorating Strike in their builds and also don't like not being able to take "Righteous Weapons" while allocating Action Points (APs) in the Warpriest tree to get "Ameliorating Strike"...

Originally this thread was zeroing in on "Righteous-Focused" Ameliorating Strike (AS) builds because I just happened to working with the Kensei tree with my current duo/trio but after more research from other threads and good feedback in this thread (+1s to everyone who contributed!) I broadened the topic as "Righteous AS" could be combined with many interesting combinations from many trees including Kensei, Tempest, Barbarian, Defender, etc and my real initial intent was to try to understand the various combos, document them in one place, and then chose the right ones to fit into my duos/trios as well as document what would be viable Righteous Ameliorating Strike builds to bring to EE parties/raids.

To level set people who haven't studied the trees yet, you can do AS with any weapon but you can get consistent dual-procs when TWF/doublestriking (& can get triple+ procs when double-striking while TWF) but you can only leverage "Righteous Weapons when using a "Deity Favored Weapon". Deity Favored Weapon combinations limits Righteous Weapons to the following racial combinations:

• - Righteous-Greatword: Requires Warforged or Bladeforged races with Bladeforged being better with the SLA and power of the forge; Ideal weapon(s): Epic Sword of Shadows (eSoS)?
• - Righteous-Shortwords: Requires Drow race and can give dual-procs via TWF Ameliorating Strikes from the WarPriest tree. Ideal weapon(s): ? (Celestia loses DR breaking with Righteous Weapons ).
• - Righteous-Scimitars: Requires Elf or Half-Elf races and can give dual-procs via TWF Ameliorating Strikes from the WarPriest tree. Ideal weapon(s): ?
• - Righteous-Focused Maces: Requires PDK, Morninglord, or Shadar-kai races and can give dual-procs via TWF Ameliorating Strikes from the WarPriest tree. Ideal weapon(s): ?
• - Righteous-Longswords: Open to multiple races (maybe all) and can give dual-procs via TWF Ameliorating Strikes from the WarPriest tree. Ideal weapon(s): ?
• - Righteous-Longbow: Open to multiple races (maybe all/most) but not able to leverage the melee Ameliorating Strike with a Bow. Ideal weapon(s): Pinion? If you went this route maybe you could range from Pinion and then jump up and smite and then jump back (credit idea to mna).

After reading the other threads about Rangers and Barbarians doing dual-proc TWF Ameliorating Strikes (with triple+ procs when you get double-strikes) as well as S&B builds maybe also getting an Ameliorating Strike proc on both main-hand double-strikes & shield bashes, I am thinking that really what most people are after is the mana-free healing from Ameliorating Strikes (ideally at least dual-proced). Note that multiple enhancement trees offer similar benefits to the Righteous enhancements though ideally it would be best to have both (hence why I originally called this thread "Righteous-Focused"). I will try to break out them as follows:

- Warpriest: Tier4 Righteous Weapons gives +4hit/+4damage & tier 5 Wrathful Weapons gives +5/+5 with vorpal adding 6seconds of 3d4 light damage. Biggest advantage is you need to spend 20APs anyway to get Ameliorating Strike (AS) so it would be great to get the bonuses while unlocking AS. Thematically it "fits" to be a Deity favored weapon but it doesn't have to be. Other benefits in the tree include Divine Might, Smite Weakness/Vulnerable, Wall of steel, Sacred touch, Inflame, etc. Benefits can be combined with the below trees:

- Kensei: Tier4 Kensai focus gives +5hit/+4damage (+2more damage if THF) & Tier 5 allows you to be centered. The Kensei tree requires feats Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization , & Greater Weapon Focus further increasing your damage with the weapon plus there are some other goodies in the Kensei tree (Power Surge, Meditative Focus, Spiritual Bond, Extra Action Boosts, +Tactics, etc).

- Tempest: Tier4 Whirling Blades gives +4hit/+4damage when TWF, but more importantly, if TWF, Core4 at Ranger level 12 gives you +20% off-hand attacks so 100% off-hand attacks with the full TWF feats while other classes can only get 80% off-hand attacks plus Ranger 11 gives you the TWF feats for "free" plus should allow you to get Many-Shot... Other benefits include essentially Improved Evasion via Evasive dance, Deflect Arrows, Improved Parry, etc. If you don't want to invest too much in Ranger you can get the first +10% off-hand strikes with only 3 levels in Ranger and only 6AP in Tempest.

- Shintao: Level 1 with only 7AP in Shintao gives a +10% off-hand strike via tier 1 enhancement - Deft Strikes which stacks with the Tempest bonuses so Monk1 by itself can get you 90% offhand & adding only Ranger level 3 with 6AP in Tempest will get you the other 10% for 100% off-hand strikes. Monk 2 gives you Evasion and monk splashes in general give you monk stances which now only need feats to improve (no longer need multiple monk levels)...

- Others?: Haven't really studied the barbarian, or other trees much (yet)...

Much more thinking to do on interesting combinations of TWF Ameliorating Strikes (AS) so some class splits that come to mind:

-3+R/4+FvSoC/1+M: 3+ Ranger with at least 4 levels of Favored-Soul or Cleric (FvSoC) and at least 1 level of monk one could get 100% dual-proc AS while centered with Monk weapons or short-swords with any race (Drow also getting Righteous Weapons). Add the Whirling Steel Strike feat and could use longswords centered without having to go into the Kensei tree to get Focus weapons...

-Stalwart Defender T5 can get ~50% sustained Double-Strike & ~72% half of the time with S&B when fully geared.

Lastly, I haven't thought about unarmed monks and Ameliorating Strikes and curious if Unarmed fists with hand-wraps will proc Ameliorating Strikes...

Gotta get going on some other stuff in RL so I will think on this while doing other things...

[Nodoze]

The following is a list of AS builds (tried to denote whether each one was Righteous and whether TWF or not):

Note: This list is roughly in the order I came across them and not a ranking of which ones are subjectively 'better' except I did try to list any F2P builds first out of deference to new players… Also I added a list of abbreviations possibly used at the bottom of the list...

• EllisDee37's un-Righteous-AS Kensei F12/C8 Human THF (Kensei Warpriest F2P for new players build) [Note: not able to be Righteous due to only THF Diety combo is BF/WF with Greatswords]: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...hter-Cleric%29 ;
• Unbongwah's Righteous-AS FvS Tempest F12/6Rn/2M HE TWF Scimitar(Fresh Off the Korthos Boat (28-pt F2P build)): https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5187182 ;
• Unbongwah's un-Righteous-AS Tempest R12/C7/Rg1 Human TWF Khopesh (Whirling Warpriest of Vengeance build) [Note: could maybe become Righteous with Longswords]: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...est-Warpriests ;
• maddmatt70's un-Righteous-AS Barbarian B12/Fv4/Rg4 Human TWF (Battleragers build) [Note: could maybe be righteous with Longswords but maybe not worth it] https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...d-Soul-4-Rogue ;
• Lifespawn's Righteous-AS Kensei F8/C6/M6 HE TWF Longsword (The Divine Vessel build): https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Divine-Vesel ;
• Kalevor's un-Righteous-AS FvS8/Rn6/M6 PDK TWF Handwraps Fists-of-light-backlash (The Akuma build): https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...5008-The-Akuma ;
• Nodoze's Righteous-AS Fv12/M6/P2 Elf TWF Longswords (The Debuffer 1st life melee build): https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nd-friendly%29 ;
• Nodoze's Righteous-AS Fv18/P2 HE TWF (The +100%/50% damage builds - EE HE Frostbite Blade variant): https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5217337 ;
• Nodoze's un-Righteous-AS Fv18/P2 PDK TWF (The +100%/50% damage builds - EE PDK variant) [Note: Could maybe be Righteous with Longswords]: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5217336 ;
• Nodoze's un-Righteous-AS Fvs20 PDK TWF (The +100%/50% damage builds - HE PDK variant) [Note: Could maybe be Righteous with Longswords but the build is built on dual Celestia's for thematic purposes and would lose +100% melee light damage]: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post5217335 ;

List of abbreviations I may have used above:

-Artificer: A;
-Barbarian: B;
-Bard: Bd;
-Cleric: C;
-Druid: D;
-Favored Soul: Fv or FvS;
-Fighter: F;
-Monk: M;
-Paladin: P;
-Ranger: Rn;
-Rogue: Rg;
-Sorcerer: S;
-Wizard: W;
-Bladeforged: BF;
-Drow Elf: DE;
-Dwarf: DW;
-Elf: E;
-Halfling: HL;
-Half-Elf: HE;
-Half-Orc: HO;
-Human: H;
-Sun Elf (Morninglord): ML;
-Purple Dragon Knight: PD or PDK;
-Shadar-kai: SK;
-Warforged: WF;

[Nodoze]

Also Reserved for summarizing any builds, links, etc...

[Nodoze]

The best discussion I have found in other threads thus far was in EllisDee37's good thread: "Kensei Warpriest for new players (Human 12/8 Fighter/Cleric)" which I really liked.

I started to craft a response to the thoughts posted in that thread but felt like I was further Hi-Jacking the thread off the original topic for new players and getting into classes and races that new players may not have... I then realized that I was really wanting to flesh out the best "Righteous-Focused" combos which would obviously involve both Kensei Warpriest but not necessarily in the same splits or choices as listed for new players so decided to start a new thread...

The following are the most relevant quotes from Ellis's thread with my response (note that I put all the related posts together and and in each quote below I added the class abbreviations so I could try keep the class splits straight when re-reading them):

So... I sort of tried a build quite similar to this... only with a lot more gimmick to it. Its basically a WF Lord of The Blades Greatsword wielding kensai centered monk.
What I wanted was the following:
1. Monk for Stances and Evasion
2. Enough Fighter so I could be centered with a Greatsword
3. Enough Cleric to make using my religion's weapon Greatsword actually worth it
The split I originally came up with was Monk3/Fighter8/Cleric9... but now that I've read through this thread I'm pondering if it would be worth it giving up the ability to cast level 5 cleric Spells an Evasion for the +8 Strength boost. What are your thoughts on this? And also... the Warpriest religious weapon enhancements and Kensei Battle meditation stack right?

The biggest reason I want 7 cleric levels is for FOM and DW to keep me immune to holds and level drains. Since you're natively immune to both, you can drop level 4 cleric spells without much concern.

I might toy around with 12F/4M/4C fighter/monk/cleric or 8F/8M/4C fighter/monk/cleric. Heck, even 12F/6M/2C fighter/monk/cleric might be good, though cleric 4 is nice for deity weapons.

An excellent point. But I would also lose quite a bit of healing and buff capability I think. I really like the 12F/4M/4C though because it would get me the +8 strength boost, the super stylish monk feather fall AND another +2% dodge on top. Hm.

EDIT: And I would also lose Bladesworn Transformation... its sort of weird but damage-wise its comparable to the fighter boost although of course it comes at a greater cost.

This is a better split 12F/5C/3M IF you go WF or BF.
Bladeforged really shine here, no pen to CHA, reconstruct as a SLA, good enhancements.
5 cleric open 3rd level spells and all the warpriest enhancements (including weapon of faith)
3 monk is enough for evasion, earth stance, and 2 feats! (level 4 give you what? slow fall?)
You'll loose some healing amp, but gain reconstruct to compensate.
One more thing: one a WF/BF platform, i'll go TWF, cost more feat, but the double proc of ameliorating strike fills your health bar even faster

EllisDee37, Thanks for the Kensei/Warpriest thread and for entertaining variants in the thread & thanks to Lary & Choopak for adding the Greatsword & BladeForged ideas to the thread.

Before finding this thread I also had the idea of building a BladeForged (BF) "Righteous/Focused GreatSword themed Kensei Warpriest" and didn't think that last reply from Choopak recommending 12F/5C/3M should be the final word as I think it is sub-optimal...

For reference I am currently running a duo of a BF 12F/6M/2P (me) & BF 12F/6C/2P (my buddy) and wanted to add some thoughts to the discussion. In the 12F/5C/3M option I don't see what 3rd level of Monk brings to the table but not taking a divine class to level 6 prevents one from getting Bladesworn Transformation which, in addition to fitting the Greatsword theme, is a really nice addition. While the original thread was for new players is that I also want the build to be able to join EE groups and be able to survive to contribute.

With the above in mind, I wanted to throw in the following "Righteous/Focused GreatSword themed BladeForged Kensei Warpriest" options:

-12F/6FvS/2M: Favored Soul (FvS) brings better saves & more spell points & 2 monk still gives evasion and stances and likely would be best overall for EH and below. On EE evasion saves likely wouldn't be high enough to be viable.

-12F/6FvS/2P: Your saves would be much higher but no stances nor evasion. Maybe better for EE due to viable saves.

-12F/6C/2P: This is what my buddy plays as he doesn't have the Monk nor FvS pay to play options. Mana seems OK to keep up Divine Might 100% and use reconstruct SLA as needed though I think FvS would be better.

All 3 options can go into Bladesworn Transformation and all have Righteous/Focused Ameliorating Strikes which help conserve mana. When my daughter joins us (or when I duo with her) she is typically on her full TWF FvS with double-proc Ameliorating Strikes from Celestia and I wish we could somehow mix in TWF Righteous/Focused Ameliorating Strikes but most Racial/Deity mixes seem sub-optimal (and none of them except BladeForged have a built-in self-heal SLA)... I toyed with the idea of a Drow 12F/6FvS/2P to get TWF Righteous/Focused Ameliorating Strikes from dual-Celestias but Righteous stops DR breaking so I chose the BladeForged route instead (may try the Drow or other race with TWF for fun later).

I would appreciate any other thoughts on better splits & races/weapons for "Righteous-Focused Kensei Warpriest" and ideally builds.

[Nodoze]

Found a good thread from unbongwah which links to other threads:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...est-Warpriests

unbongwah's thread is Tempest instead of Kensei and maddmatt70's Battleragers which is Barbarian instead of Fighter.

Going to have to think on it more whether I should make this thread about any builds focused on Righteous weapons [with AS] or just Kensei's using Righteous weapons [with AS]...

Lots to read. Good stuff so far.

[Choopak]

The best discussion I have found in other threads thus far was in EllisDee37's good thread: "Kensei Warpriest for new players (Human 12/8 Fighter/Cleric)" which I really liked.

I started to craft a response to the thoughts posted in that thread but felt like I was further Hi-Jacking the thread off the original topic for new players and getting into classes and races that new players may not have... I then realized that I was really wanting to flesh out the best "Righteous-Focused" combos which would obviously involve both Kensei Warpriest but not necessarily in the same splits or choices as listed for new players so decided to start a new thread...

The following are the most relevant quotes from Ellis's thread with my response (note that I put all the related posts together and and in each quote below I added the class abbreviations so I could try keep the class splits straight when re-reading them):


EllisDee37, Thanks for the Kensei/Warpriest thread and for entertaining variants in the thread & thanks to Lary & Choopak for adding the Greatsword & BladeForged ideas to the thread.

Before finding this thread I also had the idea of building a BladeForged (BF) "Righteous/Focused GreatSword themed Kensei Warpriest" and didn't think that last reply from Choopak recommending 12F/5C/3M should be the final word as I think it is sub-optimal...

For reference I am currently running a duo of a BF 12F/6M/2P (me) & BF 12F/6C/2P (my buddy) and wanted to add some thoughts to the discussion. In the 12F/5C/3M option I don't see what 3rd level of Monk brings to the table but not taking a divine class to level 6 prevents one from getting Bladesworn Transformation which, in addition to fitting the Greatsword theme, is a really nice addition. While the original thread was for new players is that I also want the build to be able to join EE groups and be able to survive to contribute.

With the above in mind, I wanted to throw in the following "Righteous/Focused GreatSword themed BladeForged Kensei Warpriest" options:

-12F/6FvS/2M: Favored Soul (FvS) brings better saves & more spell points & 2 monk still gives evasion and stances and likely would be best overall for EH and below. On EE evasion saves likely wouldn't be high enough to be viable.

-12F/6FvS/2P: Your saves would be much higher but no stances nor evasion. Maybe better for EE due to viable saves.

-12F/6C/2P: This is what my buddy plays as he doesn't have the Monk nor FvS pay to play options. Mana seems OK to keep up Divine Might 100% and use reconstruct SLA as needed though I think FvS would be better.

All 3 options can go into Bladesworn Transformation and all have Righteous/Focused Ameliorating Strikes which help conserve mana. When my daughter joins us (or when I duo with her) she is typically on her full TWF FvS with double-proc Ameliorating Strikes from Celestia and I wish we could somehow mix in TWF Righteous/Focused Ameliorating Strikes but most Racial/Deity mixes seem sub-optimal (and none of them except BladeForged have a built-in self-heal SLA)... I toyed with the idea of a Drow 12F/6FvS/2P to get TWF Righteous/Focused Ameliorating Strikes from dual-Celestias but Righteous stops DR breaking so I chose the BladeForged route instead (may try the Drow or other race with TWF for fun later).

I would appreciate any other thoughts on better splits & races/weapons for "Righteous-Focused Kensei Warpriest" and ideally builds.

You're right, a BF Ftr12/Cle5/Mnk3 is not optimal at all... The thing i haven't figures is the healing amp... or lack of on a BF. So ameliorating strike is not maximize, it will still heal ya (and your party) but being a BF is all about using your SLA: reconstruct.
I'm running a Ftr12/Mkn6/Pal2 right now... and WoW!!! It's a pure killing machine BUT it'S not a WarPrst multiclass
I also TR my old bard into a Ftr12/FvS6/Pal2 (well not fully leveled yet) so far it works fine, saves are much better and with TWF should heal like a maniac with ameliorating strike... I skip monk cause i wanted a character in heavy armor (tired of wearing pajamas, hehe) i feel Cle6 is pretty useless, go Cle7 or Cle5...
If you want evasion, Ftr12/Cle5/Rog3 is good, you get max UMD, better skills, poison option, AND knife spec if you want to go that far in the tree...

[elg582]

9 Monk/8 Fighter/3 FVS Bladeforged Greatsword Kensei Ninja Warpriest

I may try that out.

[Nodoze]

You're right, a BF Ftr12/Cle5/Mnk3 is not optimal at all... The thing i haven't figures is the healing amp... or lack of on a BF. So ameliorating strike is not maximize, it will still heal ya (and your party) but being a BF is all about using your SLA: reconstruct.
I'm running a Ftr12/Mkn6/Pal2 right now... and WoW!!! It's a pure killing machine BUT it'S not a WarPrst multiclass
I also TR my old bard into a Ftr12/FvS6/Pal2 (well not fully leveled yet) so far it works fine, saves are much better and with TWF should heal like a maniac with ameliorating strike... I skip monk cause i wanted a character in heavy armor (tired of wearing pajamas, hehe) i feel Cle6 is pretty useless, go Cle7 or Cle5...
If you want evasion, Ftr12/Cle5/Rog3 is good, you get max UMD, better skills, poison option, AND knife spec if you want to go that far in the tree...

I have tried both of the following (we actually have a duo so I can contrast/compare them):

-BF 12F/6M/2P: Agree total Beast once you grind out Bane of Undeath and good self-healing (but needs mana-pots) and I like being able to play with monk stances with docents (for some reason I just can't get into unarmed/monk/PJs). Most fun was zerging in wind stance with Running with the Wind and then switching to Earth when needed;

-BF 12F/6FvSoC/2P: Also total beast and melee good & still has high saves with heavy-armor/prr; Loses monk stances/evasion but still good saves and thematically the best GreatSword (took all melee & Greatsword feats and ignored ranged as he is not allowed to use any weapon except a GreatSword). More close to a true Paladin in play style... Much more mana for SLA reconstructs...

Agree that Healing amp isn't optimal on BF but you can get it to be close to normal with Healer's Friend and 3 Paladin past lives (increases it from 40% to 70% to 85%) and then add at least 60% from gear (30/20/10) before looking at class enhancements...

The above being said Ameliorating Strikeis just a feature on our current BF and I am not maximizing it (and can't consistenly dual-proc with a Great-Sword). Currently both of our BF only have 1st Progression of Mechanist for 10% repair as APs were to tight otherwise and I didn't like the diminishing returns (only 5% for each progression after that). Both of our BF only have the repair skill (no heal) and reconstruction slotted (no Devotion) so the reconstruct SLA is our self-sufficent mainstay (though the 6FvSoC/2P has a lot more mana than 6M/2P). Even THF the single proc non-enhanced AS does help us use the SLA less but likely helps the fleshies more when we group with them (my fleshies typically have racial and gear heal-amps and Paladin past lives are typically my first)... Our 3rd member of our party is a fully heal/light speced TWF FvS with dual-proc AS and that really helps everyone (even us some with our lack of amp).

If I was going to build for AS I would likely go TWF and if so maybe not be BladeForged and instead do deeper FvS for Heal and/or twist Cocoon. Hard choices make fun jigsaw puzzles...

[mna]

• - Righteous-Focused Shortword: Requires Drow race and can give dual-procs via TWF Ameliorating Strikes from the WarPriest tree. Ideal weapon(s): dual Celestia?
• - Righteous-Focused Longbow: Open to multiple races (maybe all/most) but not able to leverage the melee Ameliorating Strike. Ideal weapon(s): Pinion?

Anyone verified recently if the Righteous enhancements still break Celestia's DR-breaking? Would make that one a bit less optimal... possibly giving some other named shortsword an advantage. (And, at least I don't have MotU so I can't get an augment slot on the Celestia I got from the raid box, which means no implement bonus. Then again there's the off-hand shortsword to consider too...)

Oh and Ameliorating Strike can be used with any melee weapon type, it's not limited to the deity-favored weapons. Silver Flame clerics just are the only ones who have to do their melee smiting with a non-favored weapon.

[Nodoze]

Anyone verified recently if the Righteous enhancements still break Celestia's DR-breaking? Would make that one a bit less optimal... possibly giving some other named shortsword an advantage. (And, at least I don't have MotU so I can't get an augment slot on the Celestia I got from the raid box, which means no implement bonus. Then again there's the off-hand shortsword to consider too...)

Oh and Ameliorating Strike can be used with any melee weapon type, it's not limited to the deity-favored weapons. Silver Flame clerics just are the only ones who have to do their melee smiting with a non-favored weapon.

EDIT: Note that I moved the below information up to the Initial Posts at the top of the thread and only plan to maintain those initially reserved posts... I will leave the following here for historical purposes but if you come to this thread new and started at the top and are reading this post (#7) for the first time I would just skip to the next post (#8) as all of this info has been already moved to post #1 at the top plus info from other posts are also in post #1 so the rest of this post may be out of date...

Very good points. Yes I believe I read that on the other threads that Celestia no longer breaks DR for everything if the Righteous enhancements are taken (by a Drow) so likely not a good choice and, even if you were able to upgrade it to add a slot, the slot that is added is a Green Augment Slot and doesn't help you break DR so it likely would not be a good choice for Righteous enhancements (unless you always have an Artificer in your party to buff you).

After reading the other threads about Rangers and Barbarians doing dual-proc TWF Ameliorating Strikes (with triple+ procs when you get double-strikes) as well as S&B builds maybe also getting an Ameliorating Strike proc on shield bashes, I am thinking that really what most people are after is the mana-free healing from Ameliorating Strikes (ideally dual-proced). Rethinking things a little, multiple enhancement trees offer similar benefits to the Righteous enhancements though ideally it would be best to have both (hence why I originally called this thread "Righteous-Focused"). I will try to break out them as follows:

- Warpriest: Tier4 Righteous Weapons gives +4hit/+4damage & tier 5 Wrathful Weapons gives +5/+5 with vorpal adding 6seconds of 3d4 light damage. Biggest advantage is you need to spend 20APs anyway to get Ameliorating Strike (AS) so it would be great to get the bonuses while unlocking AS. Thematically it "fits" to be a Deity favored weapon but it doesn't have to be. Other benefits in the tree include Divine Might, Smite Weakness/Vulnerable, Wall of steel, Sacred touch, Inflame, etc. Benefits can be combined with the below trees:

- Kensei: Tier4 Kensai focus gives +5hit/+4damage (+2more damage if THF) & Tier 5 allows you to be centered. The Kensei tree requires feats Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization , & Greater Weapon Focus further increasing your damage with the weapon plus there are some other goodies in the Kensei tree (Power Surge, Meditative Focus, Spiritual Bond, Extra Action Boosts, +Tactics, etc).

- Tempest: Tier4 Whirling Blades gives +4hit/+4damage when TWF, but more importantly, if TWF, Core4 at Ranger level 12 gives you +20% off-hand attacks so 100% off-hand attacks with the full TWF feats while other classes can only get 80% off-hand attacks plus Ranger 11 gives you the TWF feats for "free" plus should allow you to get Many-Shot... Other benefits include essentially Improved Evasion via Evasive dance, Deflect Arrows, Improved Parry, etc.

- Shintao Monks: Level 1 with only 7AP in Shintao gives a +10% off-hand strike via tier 1 enhancement - Deft Strikes which stacks with the Tempest bonuses so Monk1 can get you 90% offhand & adding only Ranger 3 with 6AP in Tempest will get you the other 10% for 100% off-hand strikes. Monk 2 gives you Evasion and monk splashes in general give you monk stances which now only need feats to improve (no longer need multiple monk levels)...

- Others?: Haven't really studied the barbarian, or other trees much (yet)...

Much more thinking to do on interesting combinations. Monk stances now being feats adds interesting combinations with TWF Ameliorating Strikes (AS) so some class splits that come to mind:

-12R/4+FvSoC/1+M: 12 Ranger with at least 4 levels of Favored-Soul or Cleric (FvSoC) and at least 1 level of monk one could get 100% dual-proc AS while centered with Monk weapons or short-swords with any race (Drow also getting Righteous Weapons). Add the Whirling Steel Strike feat and could use longswords centered without having to go into the Kensei tree to get Focus weapons...

Lastly, I haven't thought about unarmed monks and Ameliorating Strikes and curious if Unarmed fists with hand-wraps will proc Ameliorating Strikes...

Gotta get going on some other stuff in RL so I will think on this while doing other things...

[mna]

Very good points. Yes I believe I read that on the other threads that Celestia no longer breaks DR for everything if the Righteous enhancements are taken (by a Drow) so likely not a good choice and, even if you were able to upgrade it to add a slot, the slot that is added is a Green Augment Slot and doesn't help you break DR so it likely would not be a good choice for Righteous enhancements (unless you always have an Artificer in your party to buff you).

- Tempest: Tier4 Whirling Blades gives +4hit/+4damage when TWF, but more importantly, if TWF, Core4 at Ranger level 12 gives you +20% off-hand attacks so 100% off-hand attacks with the full TWF feats while other classes can only get 80% off-hand attacks plus Ranger 11 gives you the TWF feats for "free"... Other benefits include essentially Improved Evasion via Evasive dance, Deflect Arrows, Improved Parry, etc.

Well, yes.

From experience (having a 12/6/2/5e drow warpriest currently) I'd say that for the drow cleric/ranger, Silver Flame could be the better deity at the moment. Righteous&Wrathful Pinion on Manyshot sounds like fun... don't need the healing quite so much while doing ranged, and you can get that for when you close for melee anyway. (Run up, Smite, back off and switch to bow, Manyshot, run up and Smite again, back off and...)

And the scorrow neither scales with level nor pulls levers, anyway. But I won't LR any more at this point, anyway... and can't swap two interdependent feats otherwise.

[Nodoze]

Well, yes.

From experience (having a 12/6/2/5e drow warpriest currently) I'd say that for the drow cleric/ranger, Silver Flame could be the better deity at the moment. Righteous&Wrathful Pinion on Manyshot sounds like fun... don't need the healing quite so much while doing ranged, and you can get that for when you close for melee anyway. (Run up, Smite, back off and switch to bow, Manyshot, run up and Smite again, back off and...)

And the scorrow neither scales with level nor pulls levers, anyway. But I won't LR any more at this point, anyway... and can't swap two interdependent feats otherwise.

I haven't tried being slightly back at range and then switching weapons and stepping up and smiting then stepping back. If you have that down it may be a very smart way to avoid damage. Personally haven't tried Vulkoor's Avatar (scorrow) so I can't speak to it but good to know and thanks for sharing.

[mna]

I haven't tried being slightly back at range and then switching weapons and stepping up and smiting then stepping back. If you have that down it may be a very smart way to avoid damage. Personally haven't tried Vulkoor's Avatar (scorrow) so I can't speak to it but good to know and thanks for sharing.

Well, it obivously doesn't always work with enemies that'll follow you... but this is what I usually do in boss fights with that toon nowadays.

And yes, I was quite disappointed that the scorrow doesn't pull levers.

[emptysands]

- Tempest: Tier4 Whirling Blades gives +4hit/+4damage when TWF, but more importantly, if TWF, Core4 at Ranger level 12 gives you +20% off-hand attacks so 100% off-hand attacks with the full TWF feats while other classes can only get 80% off-hand attacks plus Ranger 11 gives you the TWF feats for "free"... Other benefits include essentially Improved Evasion via Evasive dance, Deflect Arrows, Improved Parry, etc.

- Others?: Haven't really studied the barbarian, or other trees much (yet)...

Nice breakdown, something I'm interested in as well.

Monks also get a +10% off-hand strike tier 1 enhancement - Deft Strikes. I've been told it stacks with the Ranger bonus.

So potentially any combination of 3 ranger/1 monk could get 100% off hand.

[Nodoze]

Nice breakdown, something I'm interested in as well.

Monks also get a +10% off-hand strike tier 1 enhancement - Deft Strikes. I've been told it stacks with the Ranger bonus.

So potentially any combination of 3 ranger/1 monk could get 100% off hand.

Good point. 100% is 100%. With only so many AP and levels to spread around listing the options are good. I will try to update the Intial Posts (IP) to denote that.

[kuro_zero]

Hoping this thread isn't dead as its a very good discussion and one I've mulling over for awhile. Original thought was Elf using longswords with Whirling Steel Strike but the feat intensive nature of WSS and lackluster options for Longswords made me rethink it.

Currently I'm thinking about Sun Elf (the what? oh that other iconic that was released). Favored weapon is heavy mace. As such it limits options to Phospher from necro tome page turn in (at work or I'd post a link) but looking at rapier critical range with a nice sun burst proc.

Not sure of class split but thinking rog for evasion and sneak die to make use of Sunburst blindness and +LRing out of cleric for FvS for shield of condemnation and synergy with 50%/100% build idea (search forum, again sry at work or I'd link). Ranger for feats and manyshot option.

Couldn't think of how to bring monk into the build and stay centered as would have preferred monk over rogue for the feats.

EDIT: Looks like sun burst proc has a fairly low save so relying on it to blind not feasible. Maybe splash monk for the feats and forego trying to stay centered - y'know, oldschool.