why are Shadar-kai so gimped

[tapster]

Just give them the free Human feat already and make them a desirable race for anyone who either:-

Splashes rogue or
Like the look or
Is feat starved or
Doesn't plan to spend any AP's on race

Simple

[Violith]

Just give them the free Human feat already and make them a desirable race for anyone who either:-

Splashes rogue or
Like the look or
Is feat starved or
Doesn't plan to spend any AP's on race

Simple

well devs already said they arent humans, even though they are considered humans for gear options.

since their chain was the real marketed reason for getting them, it should do what the mobs can do, in heroics it is ok but do to mob hp its not all that great either from 16+ aside from the whirling chain.
*add their sneak attack to the chain (both versions)
*Vicious Chain should be 1 ap, and slashing chain should either be 1 ap or the dmg should be per level.
*have the Whirling Chain last indefinately until they move just like the mobs chains. abit more prr wouldnt be bad either.

[Banker]

I like my Shadar-Kai type people!

Shadar-kai
STR 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
DEX 10 to 16 = 1, 17/18=2 19/20=3(Max)
CON 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
INT 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
WIS 8 to 14 = 1, 15/16=2 17/18=3
CHA 6 to 13 = 1, 13/14=2 15/16=3(Max)


Suckie point spread but I rolled quite a few of them.

"SneakySlime" I think his name is lol

He will be a 10 Rogue/8 Wizard/2 Fighter type person.
LevelUp: 1 level rogue (given) then 2 Fighter, then 8 Wizard and 4 more Rogue.

Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Power Attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, mental toughness, extend spell(?) at current level. Next feat will be Combat Expertise and then Whirlwind Attack!!!

Can you say: "Cleave" ( +1[W] damage) and then "Eldritch Strike" (+1[W] damage) then "Greater Cleave" (+2[W] damage) and then "Eldritch Tempest" (+2[W] damage to all nearby enemies and knocking them prone for 1 second) and then "Whirlwind Attack" (+4[W] damage)? That's +10[W] damage in a few seconds!

My problem is that "I can't get the timing" just right at the moment since I haven't had a lot of time and 'he' doesn't have whirlwind atm either lol But with those first 4 it's pretty tough as it is for the mobs! Trying to use AutoAttack and clicking on all that didn't work for me as I thought it wouldn't; as it didn't work in the past either. OH! Switching to Light Pick's really helps!

Imagine this: "+150 Damage with a skull icon" looks sweeter than grandma's Sweet Iced Tea! LOL OH! I forgot - Weapon Finesse too!

I still like "Exploiters" (Ranger/Monk/Rogue) because I found that by remaining Centered with weapons is a good thing - especially since it gives you another 'attack' option! UMD is GOOD!

Thinking about it - I've been rolling so many Icon's this maybe on a BladeForged (Fighter/Eldritch Knight), or maybe the PDK (Fighter/Eldritch Knight)...

[tapster]

Slightly off piste but has anyone tested to see if melee power affects any of the chain attacks?

[Sebastrd]

Slightly off piste but has anyone tested to see if melee power affects any of the chain attacks?

I'd bring that up on the lama forums. It'd certainly get me to give them a second look.

[Oliphant]

I wish the chain would scale with character level

[SealedInSong]

Lower the cost of the chain line.

Lower it.

Lower it all.

+Melee power benefits.

In epic levels, the damage should scale up considerably. Look at how much damage epic shadar-kai enemies do with their chains even on Epic Normal. We should do at least that damage because we're players, not 1/10 of it as we do now.

[Oxarhamar]

I found it quite a good base for Artifcer hybrid

The lesser fear duration allowed me to ignore proctecting myself from fear (I know GH but, just one less buff annoyance)

Lots more sneak attack dice

I liked the auto searchie thingy bobby

I did not use the chain not once in 3 lives, did not even put 1 AP in it.

[tapster]

Now U23 is live can anyone comment on the chains attacks and if they're affected by melee power?

[redoubt]

The chain is weak. Not worth taking.

The sneak attack and super jump are good.

[StormKnight]

I have looking again at the Iconic Heroes, and I just wonder why Shadar-kai are so gimped ?

they lose the extra Human feat at level 1, and they only get one ability enhancement when all other races get 2. What makes them worth taking ?

Can't see it myself atm


Clarice

Splash it with 19 monk levels , ninja spy synchronizes with its racial abilities quite well. At least that's my plan , I am just giving this a try now.

[LuKaSu]

Splash it with 19 monk levels , ninja spy synchronizes with its racial abilities quite well. At least that's my plan , I am just giving this a try now.

I put 1 Ranger level at level 15, too, to top off the trapper abilities significantly and to give him infinite arrows, bow strength, and cure wand usage also (all for a total of 2 AP). You keep just as many core enhancements with 18 monk levels, and the 1 ranger level really helps.

[Thescalybard]

I put 1 Ranger level at level 15, too, to top off the trapper abilities significantly and to give him infinite arrows, bow strength, and cure wand usage also (all for a total of 2 AP). You keep just as many core enhancements with 18 monk levels, and the 1 ranger level really helps.

I'm actually about to roll a Shadar-Kai to try for myself, and this sounds like an interesting build. Do you have an actual build for this? If so, might you have a link to it?

[FranOhmsford]

Just give them the free Human feat already and make them a desirable race for anyone who either:-

Splashes rogue or
Like the look or
Is feat starved or
Doesn't plan to spend any AP's on race

Simple

Not gonna happen unless the Devs also get off their high horse and give Shadar-Kai some PROPER Hair Styles!

Currently they're worse than H-Elves!

EDIT: About the only HALF-decent look currently is the Sinead O'Connor!

[fmalfeas]

Not gonna happen unless the Devs also get off their high horse and give Shadar-Kai some PROPER Hair Styles!

Currently they're worse than H-Elves!

EDIT: About the only HALF-decent look currently is the Sinead O'Connor!

What, Fran, you don't want to look like a 70's London punk that got super drunk and became a Rastafarian, but didn't /quite/ want to change hairstyles completely? Punker dreadlocks, you know you want them! (My Shadkai are bald too, yes.)

[DrWily]

Shadar-kai are also the only non-Warforged race that can't use hair style tonics. ***

[HuneyMunster]

Ive been leveling a Shadar-kai assassin for the past life and shadow jaunt is great for a shadowdancer. It was an ability that was missing from the destiny that a lot of people wanted when they were developed. Though I do not know why Shadow Phase shares the same cooldown as Shadow Jaunt which makes it almost useless and a waste of 2 action points. Would be better if it was replaced with an option for a 2nd int, dex or wis similar to elves. Even so, I may change my Drow assassin to a Shadar-kai, but will lose 3 int from doing so or 1 feat if I changed to human.

[Ametrine]

I don't think Shadar-kai are particularly gimp but as a purchased iconic they should be better.

what I'd give them at a minimum
1) racial bonus to hide and sneak
2) nightvision, basically they have undersun goggles built in
3) racial bonus against poison
4) racial bonus against fear
5) diehard feat

extras that would be cool
1) invisibility racial spell
2) teleport racial spell
3) ghostly essence built in, not something you have to spend points on

[kmoustakas]

I made a shadar kai mule and suddenly I'm stuck loving playing him.

The jump is the main bonus. So far I only played in gh and had little problem assasinating everything.

+1 for letting us know chain doesn't break stealth. I didn't know that, looking forward to trying it out now.

[JOTMON]

There is plenty of junk in the Shadar-kia tree.
And they don't get a bonus feat due to not being human (sorta)

From wiki: Shadar-kai Do Not receive a bonus feat at level 1 since they are Extraplanar, Outsiders from the Plane of Shadow.
I do hope that they cant be banished, but who knows.

Now there are a few gems in the tree, if you look hard.
The shadow phase and jaunt, excellent for hit and run tactics, and losing agro. (even solo)
Improved dodge.
Guile.
Gloom stalker, love this ability, as it triggers first so you can assassinate mobs even if you have agro.

Tried the chain and thought, would have been faster to have just stabbed them.

As for Nothing is hidden, if it didn't need both spot and search to work I would use it as well but as is, I cant think of a way to get BOTH
high enough.

Pro's
Phase and Jaunt are nice, .. Jaunt is like having wings or abundant step.
Pastlives for the dodge is a nice perk.
not bad effects for gile/gloom except for point cost to get to them.

Con's
Tier 1 stuff is mostly useless, wasted points.
Improved dodge for the 1,2,3% is in tier 2 and requires dodge as a prerequisite ... weak compared to Monk's Tier1 that gives Acrobatic: +1/+2/+3 Balance, Jump, and Tumble. +1%/+2%/+3% Dodge. with no prerequisites.
Screwed on 2nd stat that all the other racial enhancements give.
Chain I found worthless, slow, comparatively low damage, nowhere near as powerful as the mob version.
Nothing is Hidden is too high up the tree and expensive. 15 to get there and another 6 to tier it up.

For TR lives Shadar-kai is decent, don't see myself taking this as an endgame life choice. The stuff I want is too high up the tree cost wise vs useful stuff in other tree's.