LRing into a DM'ed Ranger/Rogue

[A3oN95]

I have a low level alt I haven't played with for quite some time. However, after looting a DEX Upgrade tome (+1»+2) with a different character, I thought about rebuilding the alt with the LR+20 stone.

Current alt's info:
- First-life (32pt) Female Halfling
- Rogue 5/ Fighter 1/ Druid 1 (Progression: RDFRRRR)
- Alignment: Neutral Good
- Tomes: +2CON, +2INT, +1DEX
- Agony from raider's box

I tried playing with her in a couple quests yesterday, and I changed one of her feats to fit the healing dragonmark. It turned pugging into a far more enjoyable experience. However, I'd like to change the play-style a little, in order to learn more about ranged combat and stealth. I'm basically looking for an Assassin/Archer mix (something like the mechassin, but a bit more focused on ranged combat) who can finish off the enemies quickly and safely (on heroic levels at least) from any distance (including melee), while keeping the utility (trapskills) and self-sufficiency (dragonmarks) she currently has. Perks like high dodge and high saves would make it even better.

Monk/arty are unavailable on this account. I've read some good things about Ranger/Rogue TWF builds somewhere in the forums (mostly 14-15Ranger/6-5Rogue high-dodge Tempest builds), and tried a ranged-combat approach to the idea. However, I have some doubts, mostly related with me lack of experience with ranged characters and mid/high-level rogues.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

ShadowArcherin 
Level 28 Neutral Good Halfling Female
(6 Rogue \ 14 Ranger \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 260 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 25
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            18                    24
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         18                    28
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               8                    27
Bluff                 3                    12
Concentration         3                    33
Diplomacy             2                    33
Disable Device        8                    43
Haggle               -1                     9
Heal                  1                    35
Hide                  8                    25
Intimidate           -1                     7
Jump                 -1                    10
Listen               -1                    10
Move Silently         8                    29
Open Lock             8                    41
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                4                    20
Search                8                    41
Spellcraft            4                    17
Spot                  3                    31
Swim                 -1                     7
Tumble                5                    16
Use Magic Device      3                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 4 (Ranger)


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Healing


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Ranger)


Level 18 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Ranger)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Jorasco Dragonmark Focus (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Greater Dragonmark of Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sniper Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Empathic Healing (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Skill Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Skill Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Aimed Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Crossbow Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Shiv (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Venomed Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Killer (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife Specialization (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Toughness


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot

Level progression: most Ranger/Rogue builds I found were Rgr15/Rog5. However, I think the INT-to-damage w/repeaters and +1% Dodge from Rog6 would be more beneficial than 1 lvl4 spell slot + 1 FE from Rgr15, in my case. Had to grab 2 rogue levels first due to reincarnation class limit, then went for Rgr6 for the ranged goodies, then Rog6 for Targeting Sights, and finally Rgr all the way to cap.

Stats: Tomes are really rare nowadays, so I distributed the stat points in such a way that I'd be able to achieve 21 DEX (for Combat Archery) with only a +2 DEX Tome. The 18 starting INT was a little expensive, I don't know if I need that much to insta-kill as an assassin (and if I didn't, where should I put those points? CHA? CON?)

Feats: I managed to fit all the core feats I wanted into the build, although some of them are acquired a little too late maybe. I'm not sure if Empower Healing by its own is enough to boost the dragonmark numbers enough, and that SP pool is not exactly large, but I couldn't fit MT anywhere (maybe if I use Light Repeater (feat-free) instead of Heavy, I could fit in MT or a metamagic...?)

Skills: with this INT and class combo, I had a lot of skill pts available. I maxed Search, Spot, DD, OL, UMD and Diplo (leftovers into Balance and Move Silently). I didn't know if I should level Diplomacy, Bluff or both (reading the forums on that subject got me even more confused :s)

Enhancements: Here I simply don't have a clue, I can't find a balance between TWF and Ranged... I want the DM healing stuff, the DWS sneak and positive spellpower bonuses, the mechanic targeting sights, the assassin knife spec and sneak attack enhancers, the tempest dodge and damage goodies, the AA SP and crossbow-compatible powers... I can't make it all fit, and I don't know what to drop...


How can I make a build like this viable?


Thanks in advance.

[A3oN95]

I don't like bumping threads, but... any help/input is appreciated (hmm... does the lack of monk levels make this thread/build unworthy of attention/answering? )

[mna]

I don't like bumping threads, but... any help/input is appreciated (hmm... does the lack of monk levels make this thread/build unworthy of attention/answering? )

More like there just isn't much to add or not enough experience to refine things yet?

I mean, I do have two dragonmarked halfling rogue/rangers started, but they're 28pt all-f2p so no Druid either... there's a thread somewhere around here I think... and they're not far enough along to have any experience on whether or not they'll be any good at higher heroic levels even, much less epics.

BTW, does 1 Druid qualify for Empower Heal and do they get Magical Training autogranted? Because it looks like my planned 13rog/6ranger/1cleric works quite well so far (up to 11 = 5/5/1 now), and I suppose Druid could be better there than Cleric.

The other one mostly differs in the 1-splash, taking it as Wizard instead, so no self-healing from Echoes till the cows come home but otherwise more flexible (1 sp Invis SLA, bonus metamagic feat, and now also Eldritch Strike). No Emp Heal for Cocoon in epics but I think I'll be starting in Shadowdancer anyway with this one... maybe even during 2014 already, heh...


Oh and 18 Int most of the time at 13/6/1 was the minimum for all the skills I wanted to get, taking half ranks only when absolutely necessary, IIRC. So that either starting or by level 8 at the latest. Fortunately Ram's Might stacks with items and Bull's Strength, a 28-pointer especially with no tomes will want to use all of those in this kind of a build...

BTW, the Tempest core enhancements let you use Dex mod for both attack and damage in melee with any light weapons and also scimitars after Ranger 6, yes. But, that also happens (with the addition of rapiers) with both Assassin and Tempest level 3 cores if you have Weapon Finesse.


The main problem I have with these is that Conjure Bolts scrolls are still bugged and I don't have the packs yet to get enough Deneith favor for the sturdy bolts... so maybe I should respec the ranged option for thrown, I'd even get to choose between int and dex to damage there in this kind of a build... most ad-hoc quest-chain groupings don't want to wait for me to run back to the crafting hall, make, say, 3x 400 bolts, and run back. (Besides that also eats up lots of essences and +1 juice.) Of course, this would be much less of a problem if you happen to have, ... Sentinels, was it?, already...

[A3oN95]

More like there just isn't much to add or not enough experience to refine things yet?

I mean, I do have two dragonmarked halfling rogue/rangers started, but they're 28pt all-f2p so no Druid either... there's a thread somewhere around here I think... and they're not far enough along to have any experience on whether or not they'll be any good at higher heroic levels even, much less epics.

BTW, does 1 Druid qualify for Empower Heal and do they get Magical Training autogranted? Because it looks like my planned 13rog/6ranger/1cleric works quite well so far (up to 11 = 5/5/1 now), and I suppose Druid could be better there than Cleric.

The other one mostly differs in the 1-splash, taking it as Wizard instead, so no self-healing from Echoes till the cows come home but otherwise more flexible (1 sp Invis SLA, bonus metamagic feat, and now also Eldritch Strike). No Emp Heal for Cocoon in epics but I think I'll be starting in Shadowdancer anyway with this one... maybe even during 2014 already, heh...


Oh and 18 Int most of the time at 13/6/1 was the minimum for all the skills I wanted to get, taking half ranks only when absolutely necessary, IIRC. So that either starting or by level 8 at the latest. Fortunately Ram's Might stacks with items and Bull's Strength, a 28-pointer especially with no tomes will want to use all of those in this kind of a build...

BTW, the Tempest core enhancements let you use Dex mod for both attack and damage in melee with any light weapons and also scimitars after Ranger 6, yes. But, that also happens (with the addition of rapiers) with both Assassin and Tempest level 3 cores if you have Weapon Finesse.


The main problem I have with these is that Conjure Bolts scrolls are still bugged and I don't have the packs yet to get enough Deneith favor for the sturdy bolts... so maybe I should respec the ranged option for thrown, I'd even get to choose between int and dex to damage there in this kind of a build... most ad-hoc quest-chain groupings don't want to wait for me to run back to the crafting hall, make, say, 3x 400 bolts, and run back. (Besides that also eats up lots of essences and +1 juice.) Of course, this would be much less of a problem if you happen to have, ... Sentinels, was it?, already...

thanks a lot for the answer mna (the "unworthy" sentence was just me joking about all the monk builds scattered thorough every section of the forums xD). I was simply looking for some insight, since it's this is the first build of this kind I'll play, and I can't afford another heart to fix things if I screw something up. I was mostly looking for heroic-level tips, although I may level it to epics somewhere in the future if I have fun with it.

To answer your questions:

- druids do get magical training at level 1, and are eligible for empower healing. In my case, I already get it from Ranger8, so no need to splash druid or any other 3rd class for that;

- I was looking to get high INT because of mechanic's insightful strike (int-to-dmg with x-bows) and assassin's killing abilities. I found out I had enough skill points to cover every skill I wanted with 18 INT (you can check on the build above the ones I leveled. I could probably achieve better total skill numbers with a different leveling order). Fortunately, both Rangers and Rogues get a lot of skill points to spend;

- I think I don't need the DextoHit/Damage from Tempest, because with knife spec in the assassin's tree, dual knives seem to be the way to go, and I already get DextoHit/Damage with knives and kukris anyway (again, assassin tree);

- I have no experience with ranged combat, but I (want to...) believe that, with those deneith quivers, it is perfectly possible to stash enough bolts to run an entire chain without having to pause to restock. As you pointed out, you need deneith favor to get them (Sorrowdusk pack helps a lot with that, 117 deneith favor)