Cetus: The Supreme Bladeforged Fighter

[Choopak]

What are the destiny enhancements you took? Figures you went LD, but after that...

[painkiller3]

What are the destiny enhancements you took? Figures you went LD, but after that...

from first post

Twists:

Bane Of Undeath (if you plan to shrine, if not then pin)
Dance of Flowers
Sense Weakness / Pin

the bane of undeath is to get turns for divine might since you don't get any turns (despite picking extra turning in enhancement tree) until level 4 for paladin

[Cetus]

What are the destiny enhancements you took? Figures you went LD, but after that...

Oh, I can include that I suppose -

I run LD/Fury depending on what I'm doing. Blitz isn't always useful - I know, shocking for the nerf callers! =D

[Andoris]

If you're willing to put the time in to get these: Titan's Grip you only end up losing 2 strength while opening your toon up to a different twist.

If that twist was Primal Scream, you're gaining +3 strength and +5 constitution for no particular loss - unless you hate clickies.

\/ Yup, but it's an option.

That is only 3 minutes per rest of +6 str. Power surge is 11-13 minutes (depending if I remember to put on the Veriks) of +8 Str.

Titan's grip is okay if you are only planning on using it for a single fight or two. I prefer to be running in full dps mode nearly all the time.

[Andoris]

1.) For me I dumped my EE goatskins because there are higher fort numbers available and without Brace for Impact 10% maks a big difference and if have some iconic pls can get to 185% fort easily so I picked up blinding speed and have a 125% fort with +40HPS and Colorless Slot. It works nice for me.

3.) What about when you are not in LD or off blitz...raiding for example. Dodge is pretty nice. Heck Greater Weapon Specialization would trump PC because then you +2 dmg every swing.

4.) You can qualify it just has to be taken at monk level 1,2 or 6. Can easily be worked in since the reason Cetus took the other feats is because some of the ranged feats had to be taken later after tomes kicked in.

5.) Heck I would take Mental Toughness over PC or IS. More mana for reconstructs is a better bang for your buck IMO.

I am comfortable with the level of fortification I am running with (175%), PRR on this toon is fairly low, imo 10 points of PRR is worth more than 10 pts of Fortification.

I am already running with Greater Weapon Specialization (please read my build), As for not always being in blitz -- true there are times I run in Fury.. Dodge could be an option, but we are really talking about trading marginal offence for marginal defense. Actually I am thinking of picking up Grandmaster of Forms (I know I rejected the idea eariler), which would give me the option to swap to air stance for 10% double strike -- I still need to run the numbers and see how much dps that gets me, but it could be helpful in certain situations. Other option I get with Grandmaster is that I can drop my base fortification down to 150% and free up 3 ap (I can always gear swap for when I need 175% fort).

Deflect arrows has a 13 dex requirement. Base 6 dex +5 tome only gets you to 11 -- Deflect arrows is out of reach with the current stat allocation.

I really have no need for 80 more spell points -- I almost never run out of mana, thanks to a few vile blasphemies, a bauble, twisted talisman, and in worst case there are Mnemonic pots (which I haven't used). I also start the quest with a Rad II Spell point cloak on.. as the spell points get used I swap to the wolf cloak for more dps. Spell points are not an issue.

Currently I have the toon up to level 26, I plan on playing it for a little while at 28 and see how it handles EE Stormhorns before I ETR again -- there will likely be quite a few changes after that.

On a side note -- I have been enjoying weapon attachment quite a bit. Unfortunately, that means that I am rarely using Tenser's (I don't have Cetus's patience for continually reattaching my weapon) -- I need to see how the loss of 2 dc off of stunning blow affects me when running Stormhorns (which is why I am not willing to drop improved sunder just yet).

[Xianio]

While it would take a significant AP reallocation, which could admittedly break the build, couldn't DPS be improved by going Sireth instead of eSOS? - Provided you make your tier 5 the HeS monk tree.

Sireth with that tier 5 has the same crit profile, more attacks per second and stronger "extras" (featherfall, freedom of movement, supreme good etc etc.). I haven't yet looked into if this is possible with the AP available but I'm really just wondering if this has been considered.

[Takllin]

While it would take a significant AP reallocation, which could admittedly break the build, couldn't DPS be improved by going Sireth instead of eSOS? - Provided you make your tier 5 the HeS monk tree.

Sireth with that tier 5 has the same crit profile, more attacks per second and stronger "extras" (featherfall, freedom of movement, supreme good etc etc.). I haven't yet looked into if this is possible with the AP available but I'm really just wondering if this has been considered.

Any stick build that attempts to be viable at endgame, must have a Rogue splash for the 15% alacrity from the Acrobat tree.

Also losing out on GB while cleaving is a big DPS loss.

[Xianio]

Sorry, GB?

Any stick build that attempts to be viable at endgame, must have a Rogue splash for the 15% alacrity from the Acrobat tree.

Also, please validate this. Why does a stick with nearly the same profile as eSOS need 15% alacrity? It already has a faster attack speed than Greatsword naturally.

[Takllin]

Sorry, GB?



Also, please validate this. Why does a stick with nearly the same profile as eSOS need 15% alacrity? It already has a faster attack speed than Greatsword naturally.

Glancing Blows.

First, Sireth;s base damage is far lower than eSoS. Second, it is only x2 multiplier. Third, that 15% alacrity stacks with all other sources currently in the game.

[Xianio]

Oh I see. I think you've misread what I wrote and/or made an error in estimating Sireths damage.

Sireth is 3[1d10]+8 (fully outfitted) -- Average damage: 20.5
eSoS is 2.5[2d6]+10 -- Average damage: 22.5

So, really the average Glancing blow damage should only be marginally different (unless you consider 2.5, before applying glancing blow % damage value, to be meaningful).

Also, perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my HeS tier 5 comment. HeS tier 5 gives +1 competence bonuses to crit range and crit modifier (not just 19-20). This means that Sireth (with HeS) has the same critical hit profile (13-20x3) as eSoS.

Finally, yes 15% alacrity is great and definitely worth the consideration, but I think you've just applied a blanket statement that doesn't really apply here.

- PS: What do you mean "losing out on?" Why would you lose out on glancing blows while cleaving? Do greatswords get some sort of extra glancing blows during cleaves that other weapons don't?

[Takllin]

Oh I see. I think you've misread what I wrote and/or made an error in estimating Sireths damage.

Sireth is 3[1d10]+8 (fully outfitted) -- Average damage: 20.5
eSoS is 2.5[2d6]+10 -- Average damage: 22.5

So, really the average Glancing blow damage should only be marginally different (unless you consider 2.5, before applying glancing blow % damage value, to be meaningful).

Also, perhaps I wasn't clear enough with my HeS tier 5 comment. HeS tier 5 gives +1 competence bonuses to crit range and crit modifier (not just 19-20). This means that Sireth (with HeS) has the same critical hit profile (13-20x3) as eSoS.

Finally, yes 15% alacrity is great and definitely worth the consideration, but I think you've just applied a blanket statement that doesn't really apply here.

- PS: What do you mean "losing out on?" Why would you lose out on glancing blows while cleaving? Do greatswords get some sort of extra glancing blows during cleaves that other weapons don't?

The average damage ratings should be higher, Sireth is 24.5, eSoS is 27.5. Sireth hits 38 highest, 11 lowest. eSoS is 15 lowest, 40 highest.

Qstaffs do not get Glancing Blow damage on any cleave animations. Which is a tremendous loss with how good they(cleaves) are.

How does that 15% alacrity not apply here? That is a HUGE increase in DPS. If your going for the best DPS, why sell yourself short?

It also breaks the build if you switch to Henshin Mystic. You lose out on Haste Boost, Tactics, Power Surge. It becomes a different build entirely, which then begs the question why take 12 levels of Fighter if your not going to use any of the enhancements.

[Xianio]

The average damage ratings should be higher, Sireth is 24.5, eSoS is 27.5. Sireth hits 38 highest, 11 lowest. eSoS is 15 lowest, 40 highest.

You are correct, my mistake. So we're looking at a 3 damage difference.

Qstaffs do not get Glancing Blow damage on any cleave animations. Which is a tremendous loss with how good they(cleaves) are.

I wasn't aware that any weapon got glancing blows during Cleave/Great Cleave. Could you point me towards a resource that says which 2-handed weapons get these bonuses? I was under the impression that glancing blows proc'd when using a 2handed weapon and during normal attacks (1,3,4 with gthf), not during cleaves.

** I looked this up. I never knew cleaves could proc. glancing blows. Is this a bug with Qstaffs?

---

Finally, it's not relevant because I wasn't trying to come into someones thread and tell them to rework the build order. I was simply suggesting an alternative setup of AP's while noting that it might not be viable as I hadn't checked if the AP space "could" be there.

I'm getting the impression you didn't actually read the full post because I said all of this the first time and I'm just reiterating myself now.

[Takllin]

You are correct, my mistake. So we're looking at a 3 damage difference.



I wasn't aware that any weapon got glancing blows during Cleave/Great Cleave. Could you point me towards a resource that says which 2-handed weapons get these bonuses? I was under the impression that glancing blows proc'd when using a 2handed weapon and during normal attacks (1,3,4 with gthf), not during cleaves.

** I looked this up. I never knew cleaves could proc. glancing blows. Is this a bug with Qstaffs?

---

Finally, it's not relevant because I wasn't trying to come into someones thread and tell them to rework the build order. I was simply suggesting an alternative setup of AP's while noting that it might not be viable as I hadn't checked if the AP space "could" be there.

I'm getting the impression you didn't actually read the full post because I said all of this the first time and I'm just reiterating myself now.

Yeah it's been a bug for a very long time now.

I actually did read your full post thank you very much, and I responded accordingly.

[Xianio]

Ah nerts. Suppose that really kills the idea.

PS: The only reason I thought you didn't read it was because you told me it only had a x2 crit profile (which it would have if I hadn't mentioned HeS tier 5) and reiterated that it would completely change the build (as I had already said) if the AP wasn't there. Also that the "base damages" were significantly different, but that could be related to the x2 crit profile thing.

Either way, doesn't matter. I didn't know about the bug and that makes eSoS the -clear- winner.

[Retrodark]

Feats: Passive Past Life: Paladin x3, Fighter x3
ETR: Doublestrike x3
Base: WF: Slashing (1), Stunning Blow (3), Great Cleave (6), Improved Critical: Slashing (9), Greater Two-handed fighting (12), Master of Forms (15), Force of personality (18), Overwhelming Critical (21), Epic Toughness (24), Epic PRR (27),
Fighter: Cleave (3), Toughness (4), Weapon Specialization: Slashing (6), Improved Two-Handed Fighting (9), Greater WF: Slashing (11), Improved Sunder (14), Power Critical (20)
Monk: Power Attack (2), Two-handed Fighting (7), Fists of Light (15), Deflect Arrow (19)
Destiny: Perfect Two-Handed Fighting (26), Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting (28)

Not a big deal, but Toughness is not a Fighter special Feat option. However, it is a Monk martial arts feat, and IMO Deflect Arrow is useless.

[Eth]

Ah nerts. Suppose that really kills the idea.

PS: The only reason I thought you didn't read it was because you told me it only had a x2 crit profile (which it would have if I hadn't mentioned HeS tier 5) and reiterated that it would completely change the build (as I had already said) if the AP wasn't there. Also that the "base damages" were significantly different, but that could be related to the x2 crit profile thing.

Either way, doesn't matter. I didn't know about the bug and that makes eSoS the -clear- winner.

Well, the builds are to different for a direct comparision.
But put more thought into it.
Staff builds can situationally have up to 70% melee alacricity and 55 - 85% doublestrike.

[Nightmanis]

Oh, I can include that I suppose -

I run LD/Fury depending on what I'm doing. Blitz isn't always useful - I know, shocking for the nerf callers! =D

I find it funny when I see people who have copied your build, and they're charging and blitzing in stuff like Von5 en.

I mean, seriously? I don't remember the last time I blitzed (Takes forever to charge it on my build) but why would you even worry in there? It's not like you're running a build that's totally useless outside of it...

[Munkenmo]

IMO Deflect Arrow is useless.

Do you run EE? Have you tried actually using the feat?

Imo deflect arrows is really good.

[omeganeg1]

Do you run EE? Have you tried actually using the feat?

Imo deflect arrows is really good.

Agreed. I run a version of Carpone's build and stacking this on top of all the other avoidance is great.

[Takllin]

I find it funny when I see people who have copied your build, and they're charging and blitzing in stuff like Von5 en.

I mean, seriously? I don't remember the last time I blitzed (Takes forever to charge it on my build) but why would you even worry in there? It's not like you're running a build that's totally useless outside of it...

Because it makes the quest faster?