Cetus: The Supreme Bladeforged Fighter

[Takllin]

At the time you posted that Deverlin hadn't decided Holy Sword was a competence bonus, oh to be honest, you posted that in the very first day of the Dev Diaries, thus you would be able to roll this as 14/5/1 Pal/Ftr/Monk and, in DPS terms, give up 4 STR mod for a critical multiplier.

4 STR or a critical multiplier?

I'm sorry but it is a lot more than just that trade off...

[Nayus]

I'm sorry but it is a lot more than just that trade off...

You asked if it would do more DPS :P

[Takllin]

You asked if it would do more DPS :P

There is a lot more that adds to this builds DPS than 4 damage is my point. If you think that is the only difference, well then...

Point still remains, that Holy Sword isn't more DPS. One crit multiplier outside of 19-20 does not do more DPS than a Cetus build with the same setup.

[Cetus]

At the time you posted that Deverlin hadn't decided Holy Sword was a competence bonus, oh to be honest, you posted that in the very first day of the Dev Diaries, thus you would be able to roll this as 14/5/1 Pal/Ftr/Monk and, in DPS terms, give up 4 STR mod for a critical multiplier.

4 STR or a critical multiplier?

This is so wrong.

14/5/1 pal/ftr/mnk = Losing 7 feats versus the 12/6/2 centered kensei build

- You lose ranged (unless you gimp your DPS)

- You lose the ability to get centered with weapon of choice

- You lose shadow fade

- You lose evasion

- You lose fists of iron

- You lose ninja poison

- You lose tier 2 + 3 SA from Ninja spy

- You lose dance of flowers as a result of being uncentered with chosen weapon, unless you confine yourself to a monk weapon (i.e., quarterstaff, in which case you're better off with rogue due to the stacking speed boost)

Try again maybe?

[Nayus]

Taklin, why are you not like him? He posts a lot of uncounterable intelligent stuff.

And I agree Cetus, this build, contrary to what the title says, is nothing without monk, it's shambed to bits, reduced to a big mass of gimp. The monk levels are the build itself and putting some random fighter levels to be a Greatsword-wielding monk was a great idea like Carpone and you showed us. Thus, it's correct, the best way to do Monk DPS is being a fighter.

[Cetus]

Taklin, why are you not like him? He posts a lot of uncounterable intelligent stuff.

And I agree Cetus, this build, contrary to what the title says, is nothing without monk, it's shambed to bits, reduced to a big mass of gimp. The monk levels are the build itself and putting some random fighter levels to be a Greatsword-wielding monk was a great idea like Carpone and you showed us. Thus, it's correct, the best way to do Monk DPS is being a fighter.

This build would be weaker without monk. But not nothing. You can substitute the monk with bard and the pally levels with favored soul, place all levelups into charisma, start with a 18 strength / 18 cha, pickup quicken and drop ranged.

You'd have a low-mid 70's strnegth with like a 50-52 charisma translating into a low 70's spinning ice attack, retention of the same multiplier benefit earth stance gave, and 6% extra damage + doublestrike.

You lose some defenses such as shadow fade, but you gain back quicken and some decent DPS

[Nayus]

This build would be weaker without monk. But not nothing. You can substitute the monk with bard and the pally levels with favored soul, place all levelups into charisma, start with a 18 strength / 18 cha, pickup quicken and drop ranged.

You'd have a low-mid 70's strnegth with like a 50-52 charisma translating into a low 70's spinning ice attack, retention of the same multiplier benefit earth stance gave, and 6% extra damage + doublestrike.

You lose some defenses such as shadow fade, but you gain back quicken and some decent DPS

This is so wrong.

- You lose ranged (unless you gimp your DPS)

- You lose the ability to get centered with weapon of choice

- You lose shadow fade

- You lose evasion

- You lose fists of iron

- You lose ninja poison

- You lose tier 2 + 3 SA from Ninja spy

- You lose dance of flowers as a result of being uncentered with chosen weapon, unless you confine yourself to a monk weapon (i.e., quarterstaff, in which case you're better off with rogue due to the stacking speed boost)

- You lose Glancing Blows

Try again maybe?

[Maelodic]

This is so wrong.

- You lose ranged (unless you gimp your DPS)

- You lose the ability to get centered with weapon of choice

- You lose shadow fade

- You lose evasion

- You lose fists of iron

- You lose ninja poison

- You lose tier 2 + 3 SA from Ninja spy

- You lose dance of flowers as a result of being uncentered with chosen weapon, unless you confine yourself to a monk weapon (i.e., quarterstaff, in which case you're better off with rogue due to the stacking speed boost)

- You lose Glancing Blows

Try again maybe?

You aren't listening at all, are you?

These things are made up by other options that people have. I know you're on a crusade against centered builds but this is not the place to fight it.

[Spoonwelder]

I hate you Cetus......I used this build on my main. I have done a different life every time I TR'd and once I got completionist this is the build I went with for 'final life'......now I want to TR again to try something new but I can't - I know it will be substandard compared to this..... and the gear investment (though I am nowhere near to getting to where you are) to make any significant change in build makes me shudder.

I guess I can keep ETRing but that's getting boring.

You've ruined me for all other men...i mean builds....sob.

Seriously - awesome build - so good a gimp like me can make it work.

[LargoKeyWest]

Any chance of getting a level by level progressive list of what skills/feats/stats to enhance/take each level?

[Spoonwelder]

Any chance of getting a level by level progressive list of what skills/feats/stats to enhance/take each level?

Read the first post - pretty much says no to that in the post.

But to actually help
Levelling - Pa/Mo/Mo/Pa/Fi x12/Mox4
Feats - as he said main thing is first Two Monk Levels PA and THF - the rest is pretty basic and set by pre-reqs (ie. manyshot needs PBS and Rapidshot first - Greater Weapon Spec needs Fighter 8). Then Monk level 6 is Zen Archery. It leaves you with some feats to take in Epics at 21/24/27 - I like them in the order Master of forms, Manyshot, OC but you may want to mix that up at your pleasure.

Enhancements- only takes plat to respec those so do what you want but really you want to climb the Kensai tree as fast as you can to get to using your swords - then get Communion of Scribing for healing - the rest is incremental improvement.

Skills - I take UMD at every level, then as points allow - repair in fighter levels, balance in monk levels - that gets me to 11 UMD, 20ish repair, 10ish balance probably don't need that much balance but 3 more repair isn't gonna do too much.

Stats - reread the first post. All level ups to strength.

[Zer0AcmE]

Cetus have you considered/experimented with any of the following:

THF Thunderforged Maul (15-20 x3)
TWF Mornh's (X2) (13-20 x3) - (What I've played in since first seeing this build and thanks for posting it) *Note - Opens ring slot, +10 Stunning from hammer
TWF Thunderforged Warhammers + Mornh's (15-20 x3/13-20 x3) *Note - Opens ring slot, +10 Stunning from hammer
TWF Khopeshs (13-20 x3)
*Didn't edit the multipliers to save time

I've experimented a little with replacing the 2 Paladin levels with 2 Ranger levels when I go the TWF route, opens up a few feats (Rapid Shot/TWF/Bow Strength for free) and with PTWF you'll be at 100% Offhand. This version is wicked fast.

For those who've asked, best level progressions are:

Range Build
1-5 Monk
6-7 Paladin
8-19 Fighter
20 Monk

Melee Build
1-6 Monk
7-8 Paladin
9-20 Fighter

[Nodoze]

Cetus have you considered/experimented with any of the following:

THF Thunderforged Maul (15-20 x3)
TWF Mornh's (X2) (13-20 x3) - (What I've played in since first seeing this build and thanks for posting it) *Note - Opens ring slot, +10 Stunning from hammer
TWF Thunderforged Warhammers + Mornh's (15-20 x3/13-20 x3) *Note - Opens ring slot, +10 Stunning from hammer
TWF Khopeshs (13-20 x3)
*Didn't edit the multipliers to save time

I've experimented a little with replacing the 2 Paladin levels with 2 Ranger levels when I go the TWF route, opens up a few feats (Rapid Shot/TWF/Bow Strength for free) and with PTWF you'll be at 100% Offhand. This version is wicked fast.

For those who've asked, best level progressions are:

Range Build
1-5 Monk
6-7 Paladin
8-19 Fighter
20 Monk

Melee Build
1-6 Monk
7-8 Paladin
9-20 Fighter

I am also interested in TWF versions of this build and those ideas though IIRC I think that technically:

• - The build can currently already get +10% offhand attacks from shifting some AP to Monk level 1's Shinto tree;
• - Getting +10% offhand from Ranger requires splashing 3 ranger levels (+20% requires level 12);
• - Perfect TWF actually gives +10% offhand double strike (&+5% mainhand doublestrike) which is a little different than +10% offhand attack procs.

[Cetus]

Cetus have you considered/experimented with any of the following:

THF Thunderforged Maul (15-20 x3)
TWF Mornh's (X2) (13-20 x3) - (What I've played in since first seeing this build and thanks for posting it) *Note - Opens ring slot, +10 Stunning from hammer
TWF Thunderforged Warhammers + Mornh's (15-20 x3/13-20 x3) *Note - Opens ring slot, +10 Stunning from hammer
TWF Khopeshs (13-20 x3)
*Didn't edit the multipliers to save time

I've experimented a little with replacing the 2 Paladin levels with 2 Ranger levels when I go the TWF route, opens up a few feats (Rapid Shot/TWF/Bow Strength for free) and with PTWF you'll be at 100% Offhand. This version is wicked fast.

For those who've asked, best level progressions are:

Range Build
1-5 Monk
6-7 Paladin
8-19 Fighter
20 Monk

Melee Build
1-6 Monk
7-8 Paladin
9-20 Fighter

Yep, TWF is a great way to go - but keep in mind that you'd need to sacrifice completionist or stunning blow to pick up GTWF. But, the attack speed is kinda screwy when you twitch around - I just don't like the way TWF plays right now. SWF seems quite a bit stronger.

The maul is a great idea too - I think it is fairly balanced against the falchion, since you're weighing the multiplier against 2 extra threat expansion. The extra destiny point expenditure on pulverizer and anvil results in a sacrifice somewhere though, albeit not a large one.

Either of the choices will work fine, it's really just preference at that point.

[Eth]

The maul is a great idea too - I think it is fairly balanced against the falchion, since you're weighing the multiplier against 2 extra threat expansion. The extra destiny point expenditure on pulverizer and anvil results in a sacrifice somewhere though, albeit not a large one.

It's been some updates since I last checked but pulverizer used to be competence bonus and therefore doesn't stack with one with the blade. Anything changed?

Blunt weapons are a great way to go though. U21 raids and HH are full with skeletons and we have Epic orchard in U23 coming.

[Cetus]

It's been some updates since I last checked but pulverizer used to be competence bonus and therefore doesn't stack with one with the blade. Anything changed?

Blunt weapons are a great way to go though. U21 raids and HH are full with skeletons and we have Epic orchard in U23 coming.

You might be right actually

[Wormfood]

I'm about to reincarnate into something like this, but can't help wonder how it will be affected by paladin changes, especially capping the bonus to saves from Divine Grace. What do you think?

Might it be worth taking more paladin levels at the expense of either fighter or monk levels?

[Nodoze]

I'm about to reincarnate into something like this, but can't help wonder how it will be affected by paladin changes, especially capping the bonus to saves from Divine Grace. What do you think?

Might it be worth taking more paladin levels at the expense of either fighter or monk levels?

Personally I don't worry too much about future changes that may happen "soon" (TM) as it takes time to develope/test/deploy and LRs are easy and it may be time for a TR by that point anyway... That being said I don't think the proposed changes ruin this build by any means and think it will still be very powerful/viable.

[Chimeran1]

Yep, TWF is a great way to go - but keep in mind that you'd need to sacrifice completionist or stunning blow to pick up GTWF. But, the attack speed is kinda screwy when you twitch around - I just don't like the way TWF plays right now. SWF seems quite a bit stronger.

The maul is a great idea too - I think it is fairly balanced against the falchion, since you're weighing the multiplier against 2 extra threat expansion. The extra destiny point expenditure on pulverizer and anvil results in a sacrifice somewhere though, albeit not a large one.

Either of the choices will work fine, it's really just preference at that point.

Your SWF vs my Bladeforged dual khopesh centered kensai in grand master earth stance..... You be dreamin.

[Wormfood]

Personally I don't worry too much about future changes that may happen "soon" (TM) as it takes time to develope/test/deploy and LRs are easy and it may be time for a TR by that point anyway... That being said I don't think the proposed changes ruin this build by any means and think it will still be very powerful/viable.

Yea... I went with standard 2/6/12 split. I will try without ranged feats first and see how much I miss them, then might get them after ER. So far at level 18 it's fun

Edit: At 20 there sure are a lot of 30-60 second boosts and a lot of cleaves and other special attacks to cycle... will take a little while getting used to.