Pure Fighter Stalwart Defender

[Mahalko128]

Before you have a look on this build, consider the fact that this was made with the intention of creating the best 32 pt human pure fighter that focuses on the Stalwart Defender enhancement tree. For tanking, you would use Unyielding Sentinel with a sword and board of your choice (probably EH or EE Wall of Wood for it's 30% heal amp), and a two-handed weapon and in the Legendary Dreadnaught for when DPS is in order. You would be using medium armor and a large Shield starting at mid levels on to take advantage of the dodge bonus you'll achieve. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Mahalko 
Level 28 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Fighter \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 561
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 8
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             17                    27
Dexterity            14                    14
Constitution         16                    23
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               4                    23
Bluff                -1                     7
Concentration         3                    17
Diplomacy            -1                     7
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    10
Heal                 -1                    18
Hide                  2                    10
Intimidate            3                    41
Jump                  7                    24
Listen               -1                     7
Move Silently         2                    10
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair                0                     9
Search                0                     9
Spellcraft            0                     9
Spot                 -1                     7
Swim                  3                    25
Tumble                n/a                  15
Use Magic Device     n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 3)


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Whirlwind Attack
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 3)


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 2)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Human - Athletic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human - Athletic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stand Fast (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 2)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 3)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Defensive Sweep (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Last Stand (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Bulwark of Defense


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Guardian Angel


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

If you'd like to splash a couple of monk levels into it to obtain evasion (improving the tanking ability), it should look something like this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 554
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 11
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             17                    28
Dexterity            14                    14
Constitution         16                    21
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               4                    27
Bluff                 0                     8
Concentration         3                    16
Diplomacy             0                     8
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                    11
Heal                 -1                    18
Hide                  2                    10
Intimidate            4                    44
Jump                  7                    26
Listen               -1                     7
Move Silently         2                    10
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     9
Search                0                     9
Spellcraft            0                     9
Spot                 -1                     7
Swim                  3                    27
Tumble                n/a                  16
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Item Defense (Rank 3)


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Heavy Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 2)


Level 4 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Inciting Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Tenacious Defense (Rank 3)


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 2)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Overbalance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Stalwart Defensive Mastery (Rank 3)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Sunder
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Swift Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 1)


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Reinforced Armor (Rank 3)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Block and Cut (Rank 3)


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strong Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 2)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 2)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Hardy Defense (Rank 3)


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Human - Action Surge: Strength (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Shield Striking (Rank 3)


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human - Athletic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Athletic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Extra Action Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human - Athletic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Stalwart Defender (Ftr) - Threatening Countenance (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Toughness


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Bulwark of Defense


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Guardian Angel


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

[FranOhmsford]

What is the point of taking Exotic Weapon Prof Khop on this build exactly?

Khops don't benefit from Two handed Fighting Feats so taking it at 16 then the three Two Handed Fighting Feats at 18-20 is even more confusing.

Feats to consider instead:

Shield Deflection
Imp. Crit Bludgeon {for the Shield}
Great Cleave
A Second Toughness
Shield Bash

Heck if you're going to be Cleaving and Using Whirlwind Attack whenever off Cooldown I believe the Two Handed Fighting Feats aren't actually needed at all as you are already doing FULL Damage to everything around you!

With Great Cleave on top of those two you should ALWAYS be off cooldown on at least one!

And remember certain Epic Destinys give you even more Cleave style attacks!

Then you also have Imp Sunder - You won't be using this as much as you think either.

[Mahalko128]

I do hear what you're saying and I can understand where you're coming from, so allow me to ellucidate on a couple of things.

1. Khopesh feat: The reason that Khopesh was taken was because it has single-handedly the highest single-target DPS for a slashing weapon in the game. Sure, there aren't that many good Khopesh rares around, but the high level loot-gen, at least in my opinion, will definitely make up for this.

2. Two-handed proficiencies: Since this build will switch between Unyielding Sentinel and Legendary Dreadnaught, the 2 hander would be used for when being in the latter since your main focus would no longer be tanking, but pure DPS output. More used for when you're being used as a back-up tank or no tank is needed for whatever it is you might be doing. A two hander (like eSoS) combined with Legendary Dreadnaught makes a very powerful melee DPSer indeed. It also helps for when you're using a bastard sword + a shield since the glancing blows proc with that combination as well as with a two hander.

3. Improved Sunder: As much as this might seem like an odd addition, the Master's Blitz Epic Moment in the Legendary Dreadnaught ED requires that you have a Tactical Feat and use it fifty times before it can be activitated, so out of all the tactical feats that could be used, I figure this one would be most useful. Not only does it work well with Epic Chimera's Fang, but since most end game bosses currently have higher Fortitude saves than any other this could really bring them down to size!

Do you believe this logic isn't sound? And also, I can dig your feat suggestions, but those would be more for bashing which you shouldn't really have time to do when you're constantly attacking to gain and keep aggro, ya know?

[Xianio]

Bashes have been updated since U19.

Now you gain bashes in between your attacks properly. That +20% chance (+15 shield striking) applies in addition to your main attacks, not in spite of them.

It won't beat 2-handed dps but you can add a sizable chunk to your dps total if you pick up one of the offensive shields (Madstone Aegis being the strongest but having few other benefits other than damage).

These will apply with one-handed weapon. The real question is "how much damage do glancing blows add." Once you figure that out you'll know if Khopeshes (sp?) are worth it, as glancing blows can hit your main target.

[Mahalko128]

Bashes have been updated since U19.

Now you gain bashes in between your attacks properly. That +20% chance (+15 shield striking) applies in addition to your main attacks, not in spite of them.

It won't beat 2-handed dps but you can add a sizable chunk to your dps total if you pick up one of the offensive shields (Madstone Aegis being the strongest but having few other benefits other than damage).

These will apply with one-handed weapon. The real question is "how much damage do glancing blows add." Once you figure that out you'll know if Khopeshes (sp?) are worth it, as glancing blows can hit your main target.

I find what you've said about shield bashing to be very interesting! But my problem is that I can't seem to find any mention of an auto shield-bash in between attacks on the wiki. Would you be so kind as to find out where this information is posted and to post a quote of it here? Would be awesome if you could!

EDIT: On second look, it's Improved Shield bash that allows you to do so every six seconds automatically. Thanks for the hint! I'll look into if Shield bash is worth the two extra feats and what may be removed as a result. I'll put an update on here when I've figured out if it's alter it, and if not, why not!

[Krelar]

I find what you've said about shield bashing to be very interesting! But my problem is that I can't seem to find any mention of an auto shield-bash in between attacks on the wiki. Would you be so kind as to find out where this information is posted and to post a quote of it here? Would be awesome if you could!

It's part of the improved shield bashing feat as well as the shield bashing enhancement on some shields. (In the descriptions for both)

[Mahalko128]

It's part of the improved shield bashing feat as well as the shield bashing enhancement on some shields. (In the descriptions for both)

Right, yeah, saw that a little afterwards lol.

[Xianio]

You have to ignore the wiki's shield bashing content outside of a very basic "this is what the feat says." The wiki was never updated to properly reflect the fix.

It still says stuff about needing to wait/it not proc'ing during normal combat animations or it slowing down the combat animation. None of that is true anymore.

It used to be useless. Now it adds a sizable amount to dps.

[Mahalko128]

Is the shield bashing feat granted automatically as a fighter? Because I don't recall taking it, but I am able to bash while attacking, and not defending, just like if I had Improved Shield Bashing.

EDIT: Nevermind, after testing a shield with Shield Bashing +20% to a shield with no such effect, it was that effect that allowed me to bash as if I had Improved Shield Bashing. This is interesting because if you can get a shield with it, it essentially means you do not need to take the two corresponding feats. Can anyone confirm this for me?

[sirgog]

Not looked at all of the build, but given that you have the THF feats, a bastard sword or dwarven axe will outclass a khopesh in damage. It's not even close.

The numbers, assuming hitting on a 2 and confirming crits on the same (which isn't exactly accurate but makes the maths easier)

- Khopesh:
19 hits per 20 swings
2 3x crits per 20 swings
2 4x crits per 20 swings

= 29 effective hits per 20 swings from hits

+ 0 glancing blows

= 29 effective hits


- Bastard Sword:
19 hits
2 2x crits
2 3x crits

= 25 effective hits per 20 swings

+ 18.75 glancing blows at 50% base damage = 9.375 effective hits

Total: 34.375 effective hits.



D-Axe is potentially even better if you spec into Headsman's Chop. Khopesh does get more from Seeker effects and on-crit weapon procs but this isn't close to enough to make up for 16% less effective hits.

[Xianio]

EDIT: Nevermind, after testing a shield with Shield Bashing +20% to a shield with no such effect, it was that effect that allowed me to bash as if I had Improved Shield Bashing. This is interesting because if you can get a shield with it, it essentially means you do not need to take the two corresponding feats. Can anyone confirm this for me?

Need to? No, you wouldn't need to. However it's kind of like not needing to take power attack. You don't "need" that extra 5 damage to do damage, but it's still "more."

Shield bashing is a proc. rate and increasing the likelihood of proc'ing indirectly increases the damage. The easy example being that with full feats and the +20 shield you end up with a 55% chance to proc. shield bashes on attacks that CAN proc them. Without those feats, a 20% chance. So you're more than doubling your proc rate.

Which more than doubles the damage output of your shield.

[Mahalko128]

Not looked at all of the build, but given that you have the THF feats, a bastard sword or dwarven axe will outclass a khopesh in damage. It's not even close.

The numbers, assuming hitting on a 2 and confirming crits on the same (which isn't exactly accurate but makes the maths easier)

- Khopesh:
19 hits per 20 swings
2 3x crits per 20 swings
2 4x crits per 20 swings

= 29 effective hits per 20 swings from hits

+ 0 glancing blows

= 29 effective hits


- Bastard Sword:
19 hits
2 2x crits
2 3x crits

= 25 effective hits per 20 swings

+ 18.75 glancing blows at 50% base damage = 9.375 effective hits

Total: 34.375 effective hits.



D-Axe is potentially even better if you spec into Headsman's Chop. Khopesh does get more from Seeker effects and on-crit weapon procs but this isn't close to enough to make up for 16% less effective hits.

Alright, for the better part of a day now I've been trying to grasp your math, but it just didn't make any sense to me. With the khopesh, you say that 19 out of 20 swings was a hit, and 2 of those were 3x crits, and 2 of those were 4x crits? Doesn't that equal 23 and not 25 hits? I'm very confused on what you meant by all of that, could you explain it a little clearer? And Xianio, I've been thinking quite a bit about what you've said with Shield Bashing, and I can see where you're coming from with it being useful, but it comes down to rather thf or bashing will give more damage, which all depends on sirgog hopefully coming back here to explain his math, or somebody else who understands it better than me. Does anyone have a clue how his math worked?

[Krelar]

Alright, for the better part of a day now I've been trying to grasp your math, but it just didn't make any sense to me. With the khopesh, you say that 19 out of 20 swings was a hit, and 2 of those were 3x crits, and 2 of those were 4x crits? Doesn't that equal 23 and not 25 hits? I'm very confused on what you meant by all of that, could you explain it a little clearer? And Xianio, I've been thinking quite a bit about what you've said with Shield Bashing, and I can see where you're coming from with it being useful, but it comes down to rather thf or bashing will give more damage, which all depends on sirgog hopefully coming back here to explain his math, or somebody else who understands it better than me. Does anyone have a clue how his math worked?

Maybe explaining it slightly differently?

- Khopesh gets 19 hits per 20 swings

15 of these hits are normal so we only count them once (+15)
2 of these hits crit for x3 so we count them 3 times (+6)
2 of these hits crit for x4 so we count them 4 times (+8)

15+6+8 = 29 effective hits

[Wipey]

Does anyone have a clue how his math worked?

Hi, khop and bastard with IC both crit on 17, rolling 1 is auto miss, everybody has overwhelm crit now
Khop
2 - 16, 15 hits
17 and 18 , x 3 crit .. 6
19 and 20 , x 4 crit ...8
29

Bastard
2 - 16 15 hits
17 and 18 , x 2 crit ...4
19 and 20 , x 3 crit....6
25
It's rough comparison, like every MATH ™ in ddo ( more like average hit in ideal situation ).

[Mahalko128]

Okay, so I looked over everybody's math and I've finally figured out where this was coming from. Thing is, I never took Great Cleave so I never took Overwhelming Critical, either. So if you redo the math you'll be getting 27 with a Khopesh and 31.625 with a Bastard Sword, which is a difference of 14.6%. The thing is, without Overwhelming Critical you'd be doing 50% more critical damage with a Khopesh than with a Bastard Sword. And with Improved Critical which would mean both crit for 20% of the time, that would mean that for 80% of the time with a Khopesh you're doing 14.6% less damage, and for 20% of the time you're doing 50% more damage. Can somebody verify this for me?

[sirgog]

Okay, so I looked over everybody's math and I've finally figured out where this was coming from. Thing is, I never took Great Cleave so I never took Overwhelming Critical, either. So if you redo the math you'll be getting 27 with a Khopesh and 31.625 with a Bastard Sword, which is a difference of 14.6%. The thing is, without Overwhelming Critical you'd be doing 50% more critical damage with a Khopesh than with a Bastard Sword. And with Improved Critical which would mean both crit for 20% of the time, that would mean that for 80% of the time with a Khopesh you're doing 14.6% less damage, and for 20% of the time you're doing 50% more damage. Can somebody verify this for me?

Both Great Cleave and Overwhelming Critical are among the best feats in the game for melees, even defensively specced ones. You need to sacrifice something to take them. Jumping into a pack of mobs, hitting 'Intim, Cleave, Great Cleave' will lock those mobs onto you HARD.

But even if you do not (which would be a mistake; leaving aside the merits of a tank at current endgame, even a tank needs to hold aggro), the numbers aren't changed that much. Just reduce the effective hits per 20 swings by 2 to account for not having OC - this will not make any difference to the comparison.

[WilliamBraveheart]

why would you not use Bastard swords when sword and boarding or dwarven axes. as they benefit from the 2 handed fighting feats in that situation.

[Mahalko128]

Both Great Cleave and Overwhelming Critical are among the best feats in the game for melees, even defensively specced ones. You need to sacrifice something to take them. Jumping into a pack of mobs, hitting 'Intim, Cleave, Great Cleave' will lock those mobs onto you HARD.

But even if you do not (which would be a mistake; leaving aside the merits of a tank at current endgame, even a tank needs to hold aggro), the numbers aren't changed that much. Just reduce the effective hits per 20 swings by 2 to account for not having OC - this will not make any difference to the comparison.

I sacrificed Great cleave because it's only a 2w attack that's only required to obtain Overwhelming Critical, but I still have Cleave! Whirlwind on the other hand gives you 4w, and the pre-reqs boost the dodge count to respectable amounts. A tank in this instance therefore would benefit more from not having Great Cleave than with it, if you see where I'm going with this? Also, the difference between a Khopesh and a Bastard sword is 1d8 and x3 for a Khopesh while you have 1d10 and x2 for a bastard Sword, so as I said, you're getting 14.6% more hits with a Bastard sword in the same time you'd hit with a Khopesh, but ~50% less critical damage. So I think really that it comes down to your preference of rather you'd like to have a higher crit profile or would prefer to use that feat somewhere else, such as Improved Shield Bashing. I'll have to look over the different Shields available and figure out exactly the benefit of shield bashing compared to a Khopesh, and get back to everyone on that. Will post here when I've figured it out!

[Xianio]

I'll have to look over the different Shields available and figure out exactly the benefit of shield bashing compared to a Khopesh, and get back to everyone on that. Will post here when I've figured it out!

I'll start you off.

Lets hold some constants: I'm giving you 60 strength and 7 Deadly with power attack, shield striking and improved shield bashing and 7 seeker. I'm also giving you Madstone Aegis for a shield with full upgrades.

With that setup shield is going you;
30 = 2[2d10]+8 base
7 = deadly
25 = strength
5 = power attack
7 = madstones 2d6 on-hit
------------
74 damage per hit
86 = damage with critical hits ((74+7)*3*0.05) + DPH

Then you multiply by proc. rate. Shield bashes are kind of like glancing blows so they can only proc. 3 out of 4 hits in a chain so;
0.75*0.55 = 0.44 or 3 out of 4 swings multiplied by the chance to proc, giving 44% total chance to proc "per swing"

Take your 86*0.44 = 38 damage (rounding) per swing.
----------------------------------------------------
Shield damage = 38
----------------------------------------------------

So, that's a start. Your next steps are to figure out: Glancing blows AND 8% doublestrike (or if you plan to go into ED's you can make that 15%). Add all those up and you'll have an accurate representation of how much damage a shield setup is giving you.

I'm going to give you an easy for me to work with weapon: A bastard sword, 2[1d10] + 5 17-20x2

Glancing blows
16 = bastard sword damage
25 = strength
7 = Deadly
5 = power attack
4 = greater weapon specialization
------------------
57 damage

Then you multiply by 50%, then multiply by 3 then divide by 4 to get damage per swing. This assumes you have greater two-handed;
-----------------------------------
Glancing blow damage = 21
-----------------------------------

Doublestrike
57 = damage *see above*

Then you add crit damage by adding seeker (7) multiplying by 2 then multiplying by the chance to crit and add it all to the base damage;
82 = damage with critical hits (57 + (64*2*0.2))

Then you multiply that by chance to doublestrike to find how much damage doublestrike is providing you.
------------------------------------
Doublestrike damage = 7 (rounding)
-------------------------------------

So, your total "damage from shield" equals all that added up;
------------------------------------------
Total damage from shields per swing = 66
------------------------------------------

PS: That makes your average damage per swing = 148
(for comparison purposes)

Now it's your turn to figure out the alternative setup.

[Mahalko128]

Okay, so all morning long I've been plugging numbers into this little calculator you've got set up. Interesting, though I will say that the 3/4 possible proc rate for Shield bashing is incorrect (guessing you used the wiki for that, shields are now able to bash on first attack in sequence as of U 20.1), so it'd be a straight 55%. I also used only optimal (highest damage possible) numbers with each calculation, and used an EE Wall of Wood, Alchemical Bastard Sword and Alchemical Khopesh for comparison purposes. In terms of Shield Bashing, with the Feat and enhancement, you gain about ~28 damage as if you only had the 20% given by the shield itself.

As for Khopesh and Bastard Sword, when the Bastard Sword receives all three of the THF feats (and removed Greater weapon specialization for both since it's not a part of this build), you deal 8% more damage than you would with a Khopesh. For note, I also plugged in +10 to both Seeker and Deadly for optimization purposes. Understand though that that 8% can easily be overcome with any abilities on the weapon that are affected by a x3 crit multiplier compared to a x2.

Going off of all of this, (took me all morning just to plug everything in multiple times for confirmation), I'd say that you're correct: Improved Shield Bashing is an improvement over the Khopesh Feat! At least for now, until they instill better Khopeshes in further updates. Without the THF feats however, Khopesh would have been the clear winner in this decision. As for Enhancement changes, I've decided to remove one Athletic from the Human Tree, and one Tactics from the Kensei Tree. This should give enough room for three ranks in Shield Striking inside the Stalwart Defender Tree. As well, you'll see Khopesh exchanged for Improved Shield Bashing at level 16.

Does anyone have any more suggestions they would like to make, or thoughts they might have? Any of either would be fantastic!