Bard: Spellsong Vigor now single-target?

[Paleus]

Yey!!!

Now bards can get back to work writing the monks super hero theme music.

""There once was this monk from nantucket....""

the Devs could have balanced the class but naww....

[AzB]

Oh the poetic justice keeps rolling in . . . look what monks got fixed, piling on even more Pay2win goodness . . .


Other Changes

Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm now again properly charge Everything is Nothing.

In the same patch that NERFS BARDS!

This is awesome.

Yes, the irony was not lost on me either.

Although I hear that Turbine is working on a new bard ability achievable only at cap and only by pure bards. It allows bards to do the laundry of monks, giving the monks another +1 in everything they do.

[AzB]

Sustaining song is now bugged as well, only working single target

I noticed that this morning. I was going to post a suggestion in the suggestion area that for epic levels the song would be allowed to scale healing more... maybe a Fatesinger enhancement that pumps up the healing a bit. But if it's only for one toon, it's basically worthless.

But they did shorten the casting time of some of the other songs, and that's pretty nice, even if the cooldowns still prevent singing some songs back to back.

So shorter singing times, and song of heroism affects everyone in range. And two other very popular songs have to be sung seperately for each individual member of the party. Every time Turbine attempts to help bards, they hurt them worse than they help. One step forward, two steps back.

[nichefish]

bards are still very weak obviously, but at least not as *unplayably* broken as before... i see some hope

[Chai]

Yes, the irony was not lost on me either.

Although I hear that Turbine is working on a new bard ability achievable only at cap and only by pure bards. It allows bards to do the laundry of monks, giving the monks another +1 in everything they do.

Aaawwww, you mean I cant multiclass a bard and still get the ability to do monks laundry?

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

- Reduced the singing time of a lot of Bard songs, some by more than half (Including Song of Capering, which was an important one for a lot of Bards. The total singing time on SoC went from five seconds to two, and the effect should be kicking off faster). Most Enhancement-based Bard songs were affected by the reduction in playing times.

- Rebuilt Song of Heroism entirely, turning it into a toggle that provides full Base Attack Bonus at all times. Previously, it was supposed to grant it only for a few seconds when Inspire Courage was used.

- Fixed Musical Studies, which provides much-needed Bard songs in Heroic levels.

- Fixed Song of Heroism to apply in an AOE, as well as give the (much longer) duration it was supposed to.

- Fixed Inspire Recklessness, which was not giving enough Doublestrike in its third rank.

- Cleaned up a variety of bugs and feedback issues with various other Bardic abilities.

We recognize that some of you are unhappy with the fix to Spellsong Vigor; the intent was not to make Bards weaker, but to fix a bug in an existing ability that was not working as intended. Prior to the U19 Enhancement pass, it was single target, and the description has always indicated this, even between U19 and today's patch.

We also recognize that Bards are still in need of additional love, and we thank you for your continued feedback; we are currently weighing some interesting Bard-related things to see if they fit into plans for next year.

With all due respects Steelstar you mainly fixed bugs... the bard community has been asking for more spells, since before "spellsinger" was uttered out of the playerbase's lips. I have a list of 3.5e bard spells missing from DDO floating around these boards somewhere, and I'd like to see you finally take on adding spells to the class. I think mob immunities also need another looksee, which can further boost bard and caster CC effectiveness.

Will you start a new thread asking for player feedback before the new year and commit to this new bard romance the developers are suddenly ... fascinated by?

[Aliss7]

Man, people really hate it when you take their toys away from them even when it's clearly not WAI. :P Queue up the hate when turbine fixes twists of fate!

[Nahiz]

More love to bards, please!

And the thread being moved to "bard" forum only proves Turbine doesn´t want nobody but bard fanbois to read about it. C´mon, we want it to be a general discussion, it´s not like we are debating on specific builds or something.

[Volarr]

My Bard as he was, never had the time to play all his songs before the others in the groups ran off to kill things and I would chase them and try to finish buffing them. Then I might be able to swing my blunt longsword or as I figured out later that it was a waste of time and went to ranging to do some damage. Then my songs would start to wear off and its a real pain to try rebuffing on the fly. no group will stop for bard songs midstream in a quest. un less its a shrine break.

So to help me out my songs get shorter lasting times. Now I get to spend more time running back and forth trying to rebuff.

I love this game, I waited my whole life to be able to play it.
When I started playing Korthos was swarming with new players. There were so many groups listed I remember that there was a problem between the Snowy side and the Sunny side. Its a lonely place there now. you have to solo there now and don't look for groups that are not there.
Just look at thre LFG's there are so few now

Turbine WAKEUP YOUR KILLING US. YOUR KILLING YOURSELF.

[Death_Mystic]

We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

- Reduced the singing time of a lot of Bard songs, some by more than half (Including Song of Capering, which was an important one for a lot of Bards. The total singing time on SoC went from five seconds to two, and the effect should be kicking off faster). Most Enhancement-based Bard songs were affected by the reduction in playing times.

- Rebuilt Song of Heroism entirely, turning it into a toggle that provides full Base Attack Bonus at all times. Previously, it was supposed to grant it only for a few seconds when Inspire Courage was used.

- Fixed Musical Studies, which provides much-needed Bard songs in Heroic levels.

- Fixed Song of Heroism to apply in an AOE, as well as give the (much longer) duration it was supposed to.

- Fixed Inspire Recklessness, which was not giving enough Doublestrike in its third rank.

- Cleaned up a variety of bugs and feedback issues with various other Bardic abilities.

We recognize that some of you are unhappy with the fix to Spellsong Vigor; the intent was not to make Bards weaker, but to fix a bug in an existing ability that was not working as intended. Prior to the U19 Enhancement pass, it was single target, and the description has always indicated this, even between U19 and today's patch.

We also recognize that Bards are still in need of additional love, and we thank you for your continued feedback; we are currently weighing some interesting Bard-related things to see if they fit into plans for next year.

These are awesome to hear. While I am disappointed that vigor in now WAI I can hope you will transfer it back to mass at some point

Also I would love it if there was an Upgraded (ML 25 to 27) Elyd Edge style weapon for bards. Took over 16 months just to get the Shard to epic it that now at level 25 I still refuse to take it off.

[voodoogroves]

Oh the poetic justice keeps rolling in . . . look what monks got fixed, piling on even more Pay2win goodness . . .


Other Changes

Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm now again properly charge Everything is Nothing.

In the same patch that NERFS BARDS!

This is awesome.

The comedic value in this patch is awesome.

My bard is now a monk, so whatever.

[AzB]

Man, people really hate it when you take their toys away from them even when it's clearly not WAI. :P Queue up the hate when turbine fixes twists of fate!

Actually, they went one further and made sustaining song single target only, and it is supposed to be a group thing. And technically, they're not taking my toys away from me, they're taking them away from everyone else in the group. I can always sing to myself, but rarely is a group going to stand there and let me sing individual songs for each person.

And yeah, kinda hard to compare twists at low levels to a freaking bard song. That's like comparing racing a minivan against a formula 1 car.

[Steelstar]

Actually, they went one further and made sustaining song single target only, and it is supposed to be a group thing.

This is a bug, already fixed internally, and targeted for an upcoming patch.

[rest]

This is a bug, already fixed internally, and targeted for an upcoming patch.

Fix challenge XP while you're at it.

[AzB]

This is a bug, already fixed internally, and targeted for an upcoming patch.

Cool, thanks for the info. I won't bother bug reporting then.

[Thar]

elyd edge doesnt effect spell song vigor or any enhancement based songs at all.

it should, it's a pain to get and the other songs were added afterwards so hey dev's a little help here?

[LrdSlvrhnd]

We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

We recognize that some of you are unhappy with the fix to Spellsong Vigor; the intent was not to make Bards weaker, but to fix a bug in an existing ability that was not working as intended. Prior to the U19 Enhancement pass, it was single target, and the description has always indicated this, even between U19 and today's patch.

And once again, a "bug" in the players' favor gets "fixed". If this had been the other way around - if the description had stated AoE and it was proccing as single-target - I guarantee that the "fix" would've been a change in the description. Why couldn't you have done that this time? Bards are not so OP that AoE Spellsong Vigor breaks the game. Now when my bard finally gets flagged for CitW, I suspect she's pretty much going to NEED to both switch out Magical Studies (for that sweet, sweet SP and Echoes of Power - for Musical Studies *and* run in Fatesinger rather than trying to level another ED, simply for the extra songs for SS Vigor.

While I appreciate the faster songs and other bard fixes, this was NOT one that needed doing. Some kind of multi-song, yes. This, no.

[voodoogroves]

We definitely agree that Bards are in need of some love. That was, in fact, a focus of this patch, in which we:

- Reduced the singing time of a lot of Bard songs, some by more than half (Including Song of Capering, which was an important one for a lot of Bards. The total singing time on SoC went from five seconds to two, and the effect should be kicking off faster). Most Enhancement-based Bard songs were affected by the reduction in playing times.

SoC was originally instant, and with a much longer range.

- Rebuilt Song of Heroism entirely, turning it into a toggle that provides full Base Attack Bonus at all times. Previously, it was supposed to grant it only for a few seconds when Inspire Courage was used.

You mean Victory song. This is potentially a good chance, as before no serious player I knew ever freaking bothered with it.

Give the state of to-hit, AC and similar - it maybe is gratuitous. I suppose it does affect attack speed.

- Fixed Musical Studies, which provides much-needed Bard songs in Heroic levels.

Yep, definite bug.

- Fixed Song of Heroism to apply in an AOE, as well as give the (much longer) duration it was supposed to.

k

- Fixed Inspire Recklessness, which was not giving enough Doublestrike in its third rank.

Does it still not stack with items? I don't have a bard currently (as I said, I've TR'd the only one I had into a monk).

- Cleaned up a variety of bugs and feedback issues with various other Bardic abilities.

Good.

We recognize that some of you are unhappy with the fix to Spellsong Vigor; the intent was not to make Bards weaker, but to fix a bug in an existing ability that was not working as intended. Prior to the U19 Enhancement pass, it was single target, and the description has always indicated this, even between U19 and today's patch.

See the above about Song of Capering, if we're saying the standard is Pre-U19.

We also recognize that Bards are still in need of additional love, and we thank you for your continued feedback; we are currently weighing some interesting Bard-related things to see if they fit into plans for next year.

You really need to group songs. I'm a bard-fan, but honeslty waiting for a bard to sing their songs is horrid. They aren't necessary, and don't make anyone better in a meaningful way given the opportunity cost of everyone sitting around waiting for that Spell Song Vigor to be cast 6 times (say). "When you Inspire Courage you also ..." needs to be the mantra.

And/or you need to make sure all single target buffs work appropriately w/ the Eyld Edge and hit all in an area.

And, you guys should really clearly articulate exactly how the fascinate adders (enthrall, etc.) are supposed to work. Duration is fixed, many mobs still seem to be immune or ignore crazy high saves, etc.


Aside from bugs, these things are the largest problem areas for bards.

- Buffs take way too long to cast. Minutes if you're handing them out individually, etc. and people don't like to stand around for 3 minutes waiting for someone to sing a bunch of 3 minute duration buff songs. Group them, speed them up, let them hit multiple people at once.
- CC with songs while cool, is really stupid easy to break. Fascinate has an awesome DC but the "hit once and break" makes it largely useless in practical mixed-group settings ... and the way damage scales, Enthrall DC to hold after taking damage simply can't last either.
- Marigold crown is nice, but carry that same bonus over to Prodigy, and maybe add spells so that spell-focused bards can truly specialize ... carry it to the capstone and instead of adding Wail, add a choice of Wail, Mass Hold Monster or some sonic DPS spell.
- The Warchanter freeze DC is laughable.
- Oh, and the Warchanter crapstone doesn't stack with competence (ie, deadly) items, which every serious melee would have strived for previous (GH goggles) and now has +10 competence bonus to damage slotted they got in a random chest drop or on the AH. Warchanter +6 is piddly. Capstone should be as strong as evasion ... or as strong as a fighter 1 / FVS 1 dip for divine might, a feat, haste boost and extra action boost.

[SisAmethyst]

I really appreciate that you fix bugs, I really do. So if this wasn't WAI, well done. However I in this case I would have expected you think twice and maybe make this functionality WAI instead. Bards really didn't deserve to get hampered by this singing ten times the same song over and over again. It's already a pain to do the other single target buffs...

[Atremus]

This is a bug, already fixed internally, and targeted for an upcoming patch.

Thanks for the heads up on this. Appreciate that we know that you know that we all know that was broken.


Suggestions:

1) Sustaining song needs to be useful in epic fights. Mobs hit for 100+ now and healing needs to make it possible to Melee somehow

2) one song to rule them all.... Let us put a selection of songs in a custom song to make bards talke less time at quest zone in.