The Whirling Dervish

[Pilgrim1]

In a dusty town in the south west of the US stands a sheriff chewing on a sprig of grass. He pears down down the shaft of his bow looking for signs of the infamous whirling dervish. Reports of a neighboring town being decimated do little to spook our archer-sheriff who has taken down giant foes. In the distance a dust cloud rises and a speck of dust gets into the sheriff's eye, he blinks, and his town is standing in runes as the dervish has already passed through.

Introducing The whirling Dervish

The whirling Dervish is a build designed to push the envelope of DPS by creating a truly obscene attack rate.

Goals:
(1) To attack so fast that your computer lags out DDO.
(2) To put furyshoters, barb cleavers, and blitzing rogues in their place as less DPS.
(3) To exploit unintentional feet's until the developers decide to fix them.
(4) To laugh your ass off at the pure absurdity of it all.
(5) To establish a framework for people to create viable EE alternatives.

So, this is not a fully geared out build, its rather an idea to be custom tailored to a players own balance between attack and defense.

Class Split: 1monk/4ranger/9druid + 6 more class levels.
1 monk for 10% off hand, 4 ranger for killer and 10% more off hand, 9 druid for wolf form and natural fighting.

Feat list:
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC.
Natural Fighting x3.
PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, OC
3x monk stances

Destiny LD for master blitz of course.

Attack rate:
According to Vanshilar (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-and-Formulae)
*Alacrity bonuses add together when they stack (and multiply by some value between 0.93-1.23 which is not listed for sword and board - ill just assume 1)
According to MrCow, later in the same thread, wolf follows the sword and board animations (times 30%) and thus has a base rate 113.04 attacks/min

Base attack rate with haste: 130 attack/min (charging blitz)
Base attack rate with haste + haste boost: 163 attack/min (solo boss beat down)
Base attack rate with full stack of fatal harrier: 141 attack/min (blitzing normally)
Base attack rate with fatal harrier + haste boost: 175 attack/min (bosses with friends)

Additional attacks:
Currently TWF feats work in animal form and tempest lvl 3 innate and monk shinto deft strikes give 100% off hand procs.

Doublestrike:
18 - natural fighting
10 - ultimate wind stance
15 - Perfect TWF (main + off hand)
6 - antipod or similar item
3 - black dragon set
0-20 from killer
-----
52-72% double strike
+ more from destiny if you want

Total attacks per min:
Just haste: 327/min or 5.46/sec
Haste boost + haste: 410/min or 6.84/sec
Charged blitz: 383/min or 6.36/sec
Haste boost + blitz: 476/min or 7.93/sec

Getting almost 8 attacks per second is truly silly and even at our snoozing attack rate of almost 5 and a half attacks per second we attack faster then manyshot does. Winter wolf form gives a khoplesh critical profile so its nothing to sneeze at.

I currently run a 13druid/6monk/1fvs where I have dropped a lot of double strike and the ranger lvls in order to make myself more survivable but there are lots of other viable options, I'm tempted to create a 6monk/5ranger/9druid and see what i can manage with this. Someone who is better at figuring out DPS can come in here and see if it really does out dmg a blitzing rogue or a fury archer.

Naturally when creating a build to tailor to your play stile you might want to consider things like: toughness/epic toughness, stunning fist (fun!), quicken, empower healing, manyshot, PS/IPS. Also it might be possible to get even higher attack rate by going shield feets + first blood, but i don't know how twf animal form interacts with sword and board.

Cheers, hope you have as much lols with this as I have had.
PS. Feel free to post developed builds under this!

[Inoukchuk]

Wait... so let me understand this properly....

So TWF feats apply in animal form, and maybe even if using a shield? If I recall (haven't played a druid) only the main hand applies weapon effects to attacks, but the off hand can provide other effects (e.g doublestrike, etc)?

Looking at the build a human with the class levels you listed get's 10 feats (counting bonus from monk and TWF from ranger), but you list 13 heroic feats (not counting OC), leaving us needing 3 more from that 6 remaining levels (which must come from the existing 3 classes). 6 monk would grant 2 more feats and auto grants the second stance feat, but even assuming your first 2 monk feats are used for PA and TWF the remaining feat cannot be used on anything in your list, so I'm not certain we can achieve that feats list without using our level 24 feat on it. And no empower heal is a slight let down.

Regardless, I'm entertained by the idea. I saw my buddy, playing a caster druid, ripping up the training dummy in wolf form despite having really no melee ability built into his toon at all, which made me think about wolf form. But not having any idea how druids work I forgot about it til now. Looking forward to seeing this develop.

[Pilgrim1]

Wait... so let me understand this properly....

So TWF feats apply in animal form, and maybe even if using a shield? If I recall (haven't played a druid) only the main hand applies weapon effects to attacks, but the off hand can provide other effects (e.g doublestrike, etc)?

I have not tested the shield part of this, but the rest of this is true. Monk bonus die steps only work when your using handwraps, however other die steps bonus will work. You have some issues about remaining centered if you use non-monk weapons as well.

Looking at the build a human with the class levels you listed get's 10 feats (counting bonus from monk and TWF from ranger), but you list 13 heroic feats (not counting OC), leaving us needing 3 more from that 6 remaining levels (which must come from the existing 3 classes). 6 monk would grant 2 more feats and auto grants the second stance feat, but even assuming your first 2 monk feats are used for PA and TWF the remaining feat cannot be used on anything in your list, so I'm not certain we can achieve that feats list without using our level 24 feat on it. And no empower heal is a slight let down.

I figured something like this would happen. Don't forget you can also use the lvl 27 feat. The cleave line is there as much to charge up blitz as for using overwhelming critical, and you could use a keen weapon to get rid of improved crit (thunder and lighting maybe?). To be honist i would expect someone going in earth form and getting just master stances would provide a more solid toon, also dropping the natural fighting feats could let you pay a 6monk/6ranger/8druid. Mostly the list is to show the max attack rate then let ppl scale back until they reach a defensive level they are comfortable with.

Regardless, I'm entertained by the idea. I saw my buddy, playing a caster druid, ripping up the training dummy in wolf form despite having really no melee ability built into his toon at all, which made me think about wolf form. But not having any idea how druids work I forgot about it til now. Looking forward to seeing this develop.

[dom_keno]

This one is for the big dogs out there.

Purple Dragon Knight Iconic (why? it's fun to be head and shoulders above the other dogs on the server)
6 fighter/5 monk / 9 druid

of course all lv ups in strength

get all the same feats with no problem also

fighter levels give more HP and covers your feats needed. supplement kensi for deepwood.

This build then starts off at lv 15 and should be on par with the OP build.

[Pilgrim1]

This one is for the big dogs out there.

Purple Dragon Knight Iconic (why? it's fun to be head and shoulders above the other dogs on the server)
6 fighter/5 monk / 9 druid

of course all lv ups in strength

get all the same feats with no problem also

fighter levels give more HP and covers your feats needed. supplement kensi for deepwood.

This build then starts off at lv 15 and should be on par with the OP build.

A reply!

I agree, PDK in animal forum is hilariously cool.

The choice of ranger is as much for the feats (which is great!) as it is for the enhancements (lvl 3 tempest and killer for even more hilarity).

Couple of things about your build: 6 monk basically gives you 2 feats (one free feat + adept of forms) and shadowfade (amazing!), while 6 fighter gives you just 1 feet. If you want to go with the fighter levels I would suggest 2 fight/9 monk/9 druid. The extra monk lvls give you more die step and improved evasion. Alternatively you could go 2 fighter/6 monk/12 druid for more druid spells and that extra tear of natures warrior. I haven't played around with the feat and enhancements with these possibilities so be sure to look them over.

Good luck, its a super fun build to play.

PS. you have an option with this build to go dwarf and take the tactics line in fighter and dwarf for +6 DC with stunning fist, of course you will have to give up OC and put lvl up's into wisdom but its a nice option.

[dom_keno]

A reply!

I agree, PDK in animal forum is hilariously cool.

The choice of ranger is as much for the feats (which is great!) as it is for the enhancements (lvl 3 tempest and killer for even more hilarity).

Couple of things about your build: 6 monk basically gives you 2 feats (one free feat + adept of forms) and shadowfade (amazing!), while 6 fighter gives you just 1 feet. If you want to go with the fighter levels I would suggest 2 fight/9 monk/9 druid. The extra monk lvls give you more die step and improved evasion. Alternatively you could go 2 fighter/6 monk/12 druid for more druid spells and that extra tear of natures warrior. I haven't played around with the feat and enhancements with these possibilities so be sure to look them over.

Good luck, its a super fun build to play.

PS. you have an option with this build to go dwarf and take the tactics line in fighter and dwarf for +6 DC with stunning fist, of course you will have to give up OC and put lvl up's into wisdom but its a nice option.

actually you get 4 feats as a fighter by taking 6 levels in it if you go stalwart for extra HP would be good tempest line doesn't work with handwraps unfortunately. the feats easily take care of the Two weapon fighting. only thing I have taken in monk enhancements is from the Shinto line Deft strikes and conditioning. Going nature's warrior getting Alpha Strike maxed with celerity is just massive damage and counts to your build up of masters blitz. Also gear wise went with white dragon armor since I have done the epic tr for the 3% doublestrike. now with the white dragon armor certain enhancements and ED's will increase the shield bonus of it also am going to farm up a EE Ring of Shadow's for more protection on the build . Me and some friends are doing a few verisons of this build now. the one I'm currently doing is 6 monk/ 5 ranger/ 9 druid. But am planning on doing a iconic tr later to the PDK. I think if you go through the charater generator and see how it goes on this build for the PDK you would see what we mean . Hope you enjoy the build

[emptysands]

In a dusty town in the south west of the US stands a sheriff chewing on a sprig of grass. He pears down down the shaft of his bow looking for signs of the infamous whirling dervish. Reports of a neighboring town being decimated do little to spook our archer-sheriff who has taken down giant foes. In the distance a dust cloud rises and a speck of dust gets into the sheriff's eye, he blinks, and his town is standing in runes as the dervish has already passed through.

Introducing The whirling Dervish

The whirling Dervish is a build designed to push the envelope of DPS by creating a truly obscene attack rate.

Goals:
(1) To attack so fast that your computer lags out DDO.
(2) To put furyshoters, barb cleavers, and blitzing rogues in their place as less DPS.
(3) To exploit unintentional feet's until the developers decide to fix them.
(4) To laugh your ass off at the pure absurdity of it all.
(5) To establish a framework for people to create viable EE alternatives.

So, this is not a fully geared out build, its rather an idea to be custom tailored to a players own balance between attack and defense.

Class Split: 1monk/4ranger/9druid + 6 more class levels.
1 monk for 10% off hand, 4 ranger for killer and 10% more off hand, 9 druid for wolf form and natural fighting.

Feat list:
TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC.
Natural Fighting x3.
PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, OC
3x monk stances

Destiny LD for master blitz of course.

Attack rate:
According to Vanshilar (https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...x-and-Formulae)
*Alacrity bonuses add together when they stack (and multiply by some value between 0.93-1.23 which is not listed for sword and board - ill just assume 1)
According to MrCow, later in the same thread, wolf follows the sword and board animations (times 30%) and thus has a base rate 113.04 attacks/min

Base attack rate with haste: 130 attack/min (charging blitz)
Base attack rate with haste + haste boost: 163 attack/min (solo boss beat down)
Base attack rate with full stack of fatal harrier: 141 attack/min (blitzing normally)
Base attack rate with fatal harrier + haste boost: 175 attack/min (bosses with friends)

Additional attacks:
Currently TWF feats work in animal form and tempest lvl 3 innate and monk shinto deft strikes give 100% off hand procs.

Doublestrike:
18 - natural fighting
10 - ultimate wind stance
15 - Perfect TWF (main + off hand)
6 - antipod or similar item
3 - black dragon set
0-20 from killer
-----
52-72% double strike
+ more from destiny if you want

Total attacks per min:
Just haste: 327/min or 5.46/sec
Haste boost + haste: 410/min or 6.84/sec
Charged blitz: 383/min or 6.36/sec
Haste boost + blitz: 476/min or 7.93/sec

Getting almost 8 attacks per second is truly silly and even at our snoozing attack rate of almost 5 and a half attacks per second we attack faster then manyshot does. Winter wolf form gives a khoplesh critical profile so its nothing to sneeze at.

I currently run a 13druid/6monk/1fvs where I have dropped a lot of double strike and the ranger lvls in order to make myself more survivable but there are lots of other viable options, I'm tempted to create a 6monk/5ranger/9druid and see what i can manage with this. Someone who is better at figuring out DPS can come in here and see if it really does out dmg a blitzing rogue or a fury archer.

Naturally when creating a build to tailor to your play stile you might want to consider things like: toughness/epic toughness, stunning fist (fun!), quicken, empower healing, manyshot, PS/IPS. Also it might be possible to get even higher attack rate by going shield feets + first blood, but i don't know how twf animal form interacts with sword and board.

Cheers, hope you have as much lols with this as I have had.
PS. Feel free to post developed builds under this!

The 1HF/S+B/TWF rate at BAB 20 is 86.66 * (100% + 1.1965 * sum of each boost%). Haste (spell) gives a 15% boost (enhancement).

So hasted wolf rate is 102.21 * 130% = 132.9 per min.

If TWF is working the way people are saying with wolf form:
Assuming 100% off-hand that is 132.9 + 132.9 = 265.8 per min.
Assuming 50% double-strike that is 132.9 + 66.5 + 132.9 = 332.3 per min. (Doublestrike only applies an addition main hand strike.)

[dom_keno]

don't forget that fatal harrier or killer increases double strikes. I'm not sure but I do think they stack will be working on it if so then that's a +45% double strike add on by itself. Put in items and others and you will be double striking over 100%. So far though when set up for end levels should have just a standing 45% not including other enhancements. So far can take down mobs at extreme speeds. Right now will have three of these builds running in quests lol makes for funny zergs.

[Pilgrim1]

The 1HF/S+B/TWF rate at BAB 20 is 86.66 * (100% + 1.1965 * sum of each boost%). Haste (spell) gives a 15% boost (enhancement).

So hasted wolf rate is 102.21 * 130% = 132.9 per min.

If TWF is working the way people are saying with wolf form:
Assuming 100% off-hand that is 132.9 + 132.9 = 265.8 per min.
Assuming 50% double-strike that is 132.9 + 66.5 + 132.9 = 332.3 per min. (Doublestrike only applies an addition main hand strike.)

Thanks for the confirmation, looks like I under-estimated some of my numbers but not by a huge amount. Maybe at some point ill sit down and update them.

don't forget that fatal harrier or killer increases double strikes. I'm not sure but I do think they stack will be working on it if so then that's a +45% double strike add on by itself. Put in items and others and you will be double striking over 100%. So far though when set up for end levels should have just a standing 45% not including other enhancements. So far can take down mobs at extreme speeds. Right now will have three of these builds running in quests lol makes for funny zergs.

Killer increases double strike, it is a moral bonus and will not stack with other sources of moral bonus (like the bard song). Fatal harrier is a boost to enhancement speed and thus does not stack with hast but will surpass haste up to a 25% attack speed boost.

The version that I am running is a 13 druid (for regenerate), 6 monk, 1 FvS (saves - not enough charisma for DM to work). I have gone wisdom and stunning fist, however the requirements to land SF in EE quests are getting harder and harder so i am considering dropping wisdom and going str based. I have much of my AP and feats alined to increase my defense. I say this to show that I am no way tip top DPS a build like this can pull off. Just this night I took down a red named boss in GH with 120k hp in ~40 seconds, or ~3kdmg/sec. This was of course with blitz running. The DPS on this toon is superb. I can solo most EE quests, overall its supper fun.

When they first came out with the natures warrior enhancement revamp I was not impressed but since playing in it I have found a lot of things that I enjoy, most of my AP is in this tree.

[dom_keno]

Thanks for the confirmation, looks like I under-estimated some of my numbers but not by a huge amount. Maybe at some point ill sit down and update them.



Killer increases double strike, it is a moral bonus and will not stack with other sources of moral bonus (like the bard song). Fatal harrier is a boost to enhancement speed and thus does not stack with hast but will surpass haste up to a 25% attack speed boost.

The version that I am running is a 13 druid (for regenerate), 6 monk, 1 FvS (saves - not enough charisma for DM to work). I have gone wisdom and stunning fist, however the requirements to land SF in EE quests are getting harder and harder so i am considering dropping wisdom and going str based. I have much of my AP and feats alined to increase my defense. I say this to show that I am no way tip top DPS a build like this can pull off. Just this night I took down a red named boss in GH with 120k hp in ~40 seconds, or ~3kdmg/sec. This was of course with blitz running. The DPS on this toon is superb. I can solo most EE quests, overall its supper fun.

When they first came out with the natures warrior enhancement revamp I was not impressed but since playing in it I have found a lot of things that I enjoy, most of my AP is in this tree.

oh I realized the killer and fatal harrier were two different things after I posted lol. sounds like a good base for your toon you have going. The dps is awesome for these toons even without killer im doing great. right now have put all I could into natures warrior line and am now working on the deepwood line to get the killer going. Alpha Strike is a great increase for dps since its AOE with the 10W added at max on most crits im hitting for around 350 at low levels. Cant wait to see this beast at epic.

[Xianio]

I'm looking through this thread and I see no mention of the druid exclusive 30% doublestrike action boost.

Any reason that's being left out?

Edit: Also, what's the weapon profile on this? I know it's 19-20x3 but I don't know how monk unarmed and such work with "claw" damage.

[Pilgrim1]

Calculated the attack rate with the information provided by emptysands, thanks!
Just haste: 332/min or 5.53/sec
Haste boost + haste: 436/min or 7.27/sec
harrier + killer: 398/min or 6.63/sec
Haste boost + harrier + killer: 508/min or 8.46/sec

base attack speed (one hand)
132.9 - haste
173.3 - haste + haste boost
146.4 - haste + harrier
186.8 - haste + harrier + haste boost

If you really wanted to look into this you could figure out what each boost to attack speed is worth, for example deft strikes and tempest boost each provide 13-19 attacks. Each natures warrior feet returns 8-11 attacks and trying for black dragon set only gives half of that.

[Xianio]

Calculated the attack rate with the information provided by emptysands, thanks!
Just haste: 332/min or 5.53/sec
Haste boost + haste: 436/min or 7.27/sec
harrier + killer: 398/min or 6.63/sec
Haste boost + harrier + killer: 508/min or 8.46/sec

I'm trying to do some weapon comparisons but I can't find any reliable source for what would be considered "normal" high-end druid wolf weapon stats.

I know the "below core profile" stuff adds (fire damage etc) but what weapon do you use and what does it turn your natural attacks into? ie: 2[1d10]+5 + 1d10 fire etc etc
I'm new to druids and I'm hoping to avoid a "test run" that eats up 3 weeks :P

[gzargel]

So I've been playing with this build. I've had some real trouble trying to fit all the feats in, balancing the need for high BAB for GTWF, lvl 9 druid for natural fighting, and monk levels for upgraded stances.

This is what I was able to come up with:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 Lawful Neutral Human Male
(5 Monk \ 6 Ranger \ 9 Druid \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 526
Spell Points: 616 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 17
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    28
Dexterity            16                    21
Constitution         16                    21
Intelligence         10                    15
Wisdom               10                    15
Charisma             10                    15

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               3                    15
Bluff                 0                    12
Concentration         3                    15
Diplomacy             0                    12
Disable Device        n/a                  n/a
Haggle                0                    12
Heal                  0                    12
Hide                  3                    15
Intimidate            0                    12
Jump                  3                    19
Listen                0                    12
Move Silently         3                    15
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform               n/a                  n/a
Repair                0                    14
Search                0                    14
Spellcraft            0                    12
Spot                  0                    12
Swim                  n/a                  n/a
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device      0                    14

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light


Level 10 (Druid)


Level 11 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 12 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Adept of Forms


Level 13 (Druid)


Level 14 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 15 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Druid)


Level 17 (Druid)
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Winter Wolf


Level 18 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 19 (Monk)


Level 20 (Monk)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Natural Fighting


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

If someone can point out how I could fit in another natural fighting feat or Master of forms, let me know.

[Pilgrim1]

So I've been playing with this build. I've had some real trouble trying to fit all the feats in, balancing the need for high BAB for GTWF, lvl 9 druid for natural fighting, and monk levels for upgraded stances.

This is what I was able to come up with:

If someone can point out how I could fit in another natural fighting feat or Master of forms, let me know.

If you run 6 monk instead of 6 ranger you get an extra feet out of it. Monk gives a free feet and you don't need to take adept of forms netting you 2. However no manyshot. Bare in mind that natural fighting is about the lowest DPS feet on the totem poll.

Don't forget that PA is a monk bonus feet, and you could take toughness as a lvl 26 epic destiny feet and push PTWF to lvl 28. Blinding speed could be gotten on an item as well to possibly free up another feet.

If you plan on using thunder and lighting exclusivly then you could also drop improved crit.

Personally I would drop the natural fighting line and pick up stuff like quicken and empower healing. If you assume you do on average ~100dmg a hit (including crits) then each natural fighting feet gives you ~16DPS or ~1k dmg per min. Which can add up, especially if you have 3 of em.

good luck!