Questions...

[eryah]

Hahahah what a dum dum would complain about getting a free GT... i mean u should have sent him to the Nightforge... guess your jsut a good player running into bad groups ... i still have faith in PUGs i really do but from time to time I just want the quest to be over so i can quit group... Lets face it we were all newbies (noobs) at some point... I like to give advice, but I dont see ppl really taking info in often... anyways keep PUGging so you can keep telling this kind of stories its refreshing

p.s. dnt know if i quotted properly

[Fedora1]

Hahahah what a dum dum would complain about getting a free GT... i mean u should have sent him to the Nightforge... guess your jsut a good player running into bad groups ... i still have faith in PUGs i really do but from time to time I just want the quest to be over so i can quit group... Lets face it we were all newbies (noobs) at some point... I like to give advice, but I dont see ppl really taking info in often... anyways keep PUGging so you can keep telling this kind of stories its refreshing

p.s. dnt know if i quotted properly

You need another bracket "]" after the word quote in the beginning.


EDIT - Haha you ninja'd me and took the whole quote out. lol

[keveniaftw]

Llewndyn has become an elitist, I'm not sure if I should be happy about this or sad. I could go dig up earlier posts where Llewndyn defended the casual/noob population and now he has graduated to the expecting people to only hit his LFM if they "Know it".

This seems to be natural progression of Vet characters according to DDO forumites. I personally don't believe it happens 100% of the time but hey it happens.

But to answer your 3 scenario questions you aren't wrong or right. You clearly have reached the point where you are trying to give puggers regardless of who they are credit for learning all the things you have been taught or learned yourself without accepting the possibility that they simply may not have the knowledge, gear or player skill to do the things that now come naturally to you.

So either you'll learn to post LFM's that say BYOH or Know It or Zerg Run only or the other multitude of catchphrases veterans and/or elitist use to try to get only other like people to join the LFM and not delay your quest to beat the quest in what you feel is an acceptable amount of time and/or resources.

Or maybe you will accept that others may not have your skill or knowledge and need a helping hand and be willing to help them.

Just for clarification I fall into the first crowd, while I don't hate teaching "noobs" etc with my limited playtime I generally just want to get X amount of things done in Y time as fast as possible.

Bowserkoopa,

Watching the Elitist population grow one person at a time.

This just might be the first post of yours ever that I fully agree with

[prophet1]

i have a more funny anwser , first off i dont care if a bard pugs as long as he sings them songs thats what i party bards for anyway , fighters fight , mages cast and healers heal( debatable now a days, seems as of late the fs cry too much when they have 2 and claim im nit a healer, dont lie anymore your a healer type u can always heal , even my pally tryes to heal as much as possible the party) and bards sing . second as long as u don t end up in titans islands , who cares if ya get greater teleported , i have had the gt pop up the same second i went to click on chest right in the wat and whoosh i was off to wherever but never complained about it , i figured more a game bug than a person trying to be nice, never blames the mage just ddo placement of the spell

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I refer you to my sig.



And



I refer your former PUG-mates to my sig.








Edit: I went back and realized who wrote the OP. And I was surprised. I am not good at remembering names, but like someone else posted, I thought I remembered a lot more tolerance of noobs from you in previous posts.


Ok... mistakes happen.

Whenever I pull that lever in POP the same things go through my mind. Are they ready? How long do I wait? They look Ready? What is this guy doing? Out or in buddy, come on make up your mind.


But on another note: yes, people can die in there. They hurl lightning attacks and can do physical damage as well.
But the killer comes when you get hurled into the lighting at the barrier.
Which it sounds like you should have known that the Cleric was going to get hit by the barrier when you threw the switch. (I have seen this happen many times)


Anyway... like some other posters have said. This whole thing comes across as pretty elitist.

But I also see that it started with others in the group you were in, and how they responded to what happened.

I am reminded of two wrongs does not make a right.

[dunklezhan]

False. And while I'm sure someone typed up a similar response to Neville Chamberlain just before his trip to Munich, advice like this is what causes the problem. We can not accept the tards doing tard things. If we do, we're no better than those who let the Germans march over Europe. They need to be called on it and come away with a clear understanding that stupidity is worse than genocide, in a gaming sense. And I'm talking about a gaming sense here: if your mission in play is to be terrible and suck the fun from every aspect of this game, you are stoking the ovens of MMO gaming, ready to push poor folks who still try to PUG into them.Stop the madness. When you see bad plan, let it be known. Things will never get better without that.

This is a funny post, but mostly it just made me think: 1st world problems! Perspective, people!



As for the OP (I've read the follow up replies):

Look: it doesn't matter what you put in your LFM, a PuG is a PuG, and you can't stop random. Therefore, everyone should simply be on their best, nicest behaviour. I mean, why not? If you want to make sure you only run with your version of "quality" people, the game has a mechanism for this, it's called a guild. Private chat channels can be created for like minded people (yo, Forthi!). LFMs... they're not it.

PuGs are spin the roulette wheel and hope that your text entry filters out at least some of the folks you want to avoid, and that no-one decides to troll you for putting 'know it' or something like that. You can't expect a PuG to be anything else. Even if it weren't for the fact that about 10% of any group of people are completely antisocial or contrary wossnames, fact is a lot of folks play this game who don't speak english as a first language and may not even have properly understood the LFM. But most likely they are trying to, and many of the really nice players I've bumped into have been non-english speakers, if you just take the time to establish what level of communications you do have. I've also met a few who aren't trying, and that is a pain. On the other hand, you can freely discuss reforming the group in front of them without them getting upset so...


Asking "who's in the right" immediately makes me want to say "not you". But looking at it objectively I tend to agree with others -

the GT issue is their fault not yours: read before you click. On the other hand, you are specifically asking about etiquette. So that said, why not, instead of assuming everyone *wants* a GT, just ask first? That would be what I consider the correct etiquette, and it's what I'd do.


On the PoP issue - again I think in terms of etiquette, it wouldn't have cost you anything to ask, not assume, that everyone was ready. You are the lever puller, and control the situation. You have the power. Therefore the onus of etiquette falls to YOU to check they're ready, not them to guess at how long your patience is before you decide it's been too long and they should be ready. You can just count in for heaven's sake it's not hard.

On the issue with the bard - they asked to join YOUR group so in terms of etiquette if you had posted things like 'know it' or 'be flagged', the onus is on them to be honest if they don't know it and send you a tell to see if it's alright to join. If you didn't, then it is on you, the leader, to get your group together and going and to brief party members as necessary. In my view you should really have cut them loose much earlier (and with more grace, but you've already admitted you know you were a bit rude so I'll not harp on that ) when it became clear they were not going to be fast enough for you. Personally, the point at which they could not get into the Vale, I would've said: are you flagged to get in, and do you know how to do that? And when they said no, I would've explained we were trying to get things done quickly and didn't have time to wait or explain right now. Then I'd probably have pointed them at the wiki, apologised for not being able to help them this time, and dismissed them. Because that would be the polite thing to do.

Now, am I too coddling, too forgiving? I don't know, probably. But although I've had idiots and noobs (distinct from newbs) in my party before, I've never had an angry tell about my actions in dismissing or dropping group when it's become clear we're incompatible or about my actions in a quest.

Except once, when a fellow officer scolded me for trying to do a PuG CiTW EH in a 1 rank destiny, because it made us look bad as a guild. And they were entirely right to do so, and I haven't done it again. I was a baaaaad widdle dunkle.

[prophet1]

no not at all you were totally in the right , wasn t your fault some crazy decided to test there lighting resistance vs the barrier , obviously the barrier won lol , the only pug ppl drive me mad is when try to tell them to stop cause u know a easier way and they go leroy jenkins running in like mad and by then all the mobs agro and insanity explodes and your left facing a bunch of soul stones and a pack of mobs and rednamed , and just a example , the end of epic tor u can shoot first pillar draw no agro then u can go invis target second go to back of room kill the second ( skelly cant see inv ) then the boss activates and can see invisable and hell follow you away from the mobs to a point where they wil bug if they come running and he wont , there by missing the constant respawn , but you always get those ppl go running like crazies into the room and alll hell breaks lose , so when the party dies im still standing to the side wacthing ( cause i said no wait 5 times before they ran in ) and there like we coulda won if u ran in a helped , my response is we coulda won if u had stopped to listen leroy , so don t let someone blame you for there issues , the bard had no right to demand elite if he can t solo elite and the greater tele gives you plenty of time to react , i solo more than pug , but when i do pug i go by group census on what to do and difficulty and i try t draw as much ago as i can to keep then alive even if they don t notice it , when all is said and done and the kill count favors you 3 or 4 to 1 you know youve done your job as well as you could lol

[eryah]

=Fedora1;5194475]You need another bracket "]" after the word quote in the beginning.


EDIT - Haha you ninja'd me and took the whole quote out. lol

Thank you hope this helps

[Llewndyn]

Why? I was not being snarkey, just because I do not agree with you does not mean I am trolling you.

I have had my fair share of run-ins with puggers. One guy in a CITW run I was leading would not stop killing portal keepers at the start of the end fight. I had to ask him to stand in a corner and pike till the raid was complete. At the time it was very frustrating but it's just another bad pugger story to add to the already long list. Have also had fantastic experiences with puggers and have made many friends through random pick up groups. Anyway, I don't think you need to stress because you had a few bad experiences in pugs, there will be many more!





You didn't miss anything, the puggers are the same as they always were! You however have changed a lot. From starting out as a complete noob, like everyone, and grown in to the experienced player you are today. I remember when I didnt know where all the quests were. I would ask for a share in every group I joined. There was a time when I couldn't even afford to buy cure serious potions for myself. I would never have capped my first life if not for the pick up groups I joined.





You did not, I did. I used it as an example. I wonder how you are so shocked that pugs are full of folks that don't know exactly what their doing! It's normal mate.

I guess I was a little shocked because the majority of PUGS I've been in have been great, even when it's comprised almost completely of newbs and I'm the only one who knows what they're doing. I've since learned a bit more patience, and plan to take a more helpful role in PUGs. RE: CITW, I demand you let me pike now since I know you'll let people do it! I'm only level 17 right now but I can link my Pinion...

[dunklezhan]

Wow . . . I think I understood that.

Me too. And the precise grammar of the exact translation forced me to read it in the voice of a badly dubbed martial arts movie. Double win!

[ice-arrow]

Me too. And the precise grammar of the exact translation forced me to read it in the voice of a badly dubbed martial arts movie. Double win!

I'll be back. [terminator's tone]
Ehehe.. kk.