Questions...

[Llewndyn]

Scenario 1: On the pulling the lever which you group felt was too soon, and by the evidence of the Cleric not being in the room. The wrong in this situation is not the action you took by assumption, that was a misunderstanding. The wrong is in the attitude expressed by both parties.

Scenario 2: The Greater Teleport at the end of a Vale quest is very appreciated by many players, but might I suggest that you can avoid this situation by simply standing back from the chest before you cast a spell that puts up a dialog that in some cases prevents any other action especially when there are "Are you Sure?" messages popping up. While I agree the "No" button is easy to press and it is on the player to press the right button. But again you can avoid this type of drama by being more practical and realize not everyone is as fast as you in looting. Providing the GT was not the issue, it was the timing.

Scenario 3: As the PL you set what difficulty you wanted to run the quest, you notified the party of your intent. As can be expected some left because they wanted to do this on a different difficulty. The continuing of the conversation after the person left the group was by no means a positive on this encounter with someone not at the same level as you in the game. However, that will be their impression of people like yourself (generally causing a tainted view of that group).

As a note about the amount of death spells available for RWTD; I've found that Greater Shout (while not a DPS spell) helps to equalize the fights against the Eladrin. It may not be glamorous but it can go a long way in reducing the damage taken by the whole party. You took the step of picking a difficulty you felt the party you had could survive, but you can also go one step further by adding additional survivability to your party.

I agree with all of your points. I cast GT a little close to the chest, but thats because the group was close to the chest and I was in a hurry to move on to the next quest. As for the third scenario, I didn't feel it necessary to add in all the back and forth, but the impression I got was the bard felt entitled to an elite completion, and was annoyed we weren't going to do it on elite. I said 3 times we were going to do hard, each time him whining about how he needs elite. I can see how what I did could be construed as wrong though from reading your responses. Thank you.

RE: Greater Shout: I never thought of that. I was using hypnotize and FoD and Circle of Death and PK, and they were hitting, but the cooldowns make it so in between those I was really just laying down ice storm and jumping around like an idiot, the whole time thinking "There has to be a better way"... will give that a try.

[Llewndyn]

LOLz . . . the other elitists won't run with him.

It hurts!

I never said I was elite anything, and I would have made this post my first and second lives. I don't quite get how people not using common sense (if a dialogue box comes up asking if you want to teleport to Meridia, and you haven't looted the chest yet, why would you click yes?) somehow makes me a wannabe elitist. If If you are an elitist, I would rather solo, I'd probably be done with the quest before you were finished talking yourself up and linking lame items everyone got (what is with people linking Pinion all the time? People who are under 20?), so there's that. I do enjoy your troll though, I felt this annoyance rise up within me just seeing that you had responded before I even read what you wrote, and I was not disappointed. +1!

[Bowser_Koopa]

As a first/second/third+ life character, I never demanded others do quests that I knew I would not be able to contribute to. I ran them on difficulties I could handle first, and worked my way up. I'm an elitist for expecting other people to do the same?

I bend over backwards (it's an expensive enhancement, costs 3 AP) to help new players. Not by giving them plat so I have another notch on my yuletide log every Christmas, but because I believe in the "if you help them, they will return the favor and the server will be a gooderer place" mantra. This is 3 examples of times I did not ignore silly questions or try to help teach people, and I think that's pretty good odds. I can post about the dozens of PUGs I join where I have John Stamos teach people life lessons while I play an acoustic guitar in the background, but who wants to read that tripe?

The irony of me being a "noob defender" who now seems quite elitist is not lost on me, and it's something I wrestle with daily. I don't consider myself an elitist, because I don't:

1. Join a group and link a bunch of epic items I can't use just to make people feel inferior
2. Remind people over and over how many lives I've done as some idiotic justification for my behavior
3. Insult everyone for every little infraction, perceived or real
4. Come to the forums and write whiny... wait
5. Play the elusive bardcherarti
6. Have a toon in Ravensguard (why do you keep denying my application?!)

For those reasons, and because I have no facial hair (and all bad guys have facial hair and cut off jorts with chained wallets), I consider myself a benevolent new player helper, nothing more.

So lets see point 1 (makes a note to learn how to type in different colors in other peoples quotes)

Yes by expecting others do not spend time learning quests or using the wiki or other forms of knowledge prior to joining your group on Elite you are an Elitist. I don't really understand this but it appears to be the popular idea amongst those who started the label of elitist etc. Apparently we live in Instant Gratification world where you the vet are responsible for making sure the new player knows everything and doesn't die etc. Again I'm not sure when this became the "Norm" just an observation I've had in the many years of playing this game.

Next even if you help noobs any time you don't help noobs or don't help them enough you are an elitist. Not sure when this one happened either but hey it's the law live with it.

1. Join a group and link a bunch of epic items I can't use just to make people feel inferior
If you meet anyone who does this they aren't really an Elitist they are just well a not nice word lets say italian short plumber with an M on his hat.

2. Remind people over and over how many lives I've done as some idiotic justification for my behavior
Again atleast in the circles I run in I never see these sorts of people if they are out there, I demand they stop referring to themselves at Elitist

3. Insult everyone for every little infraction, perceived or real
Admittedly sometimes for fun we do this in Ravensguard

4. Come to the forums and write whiny... wait
I prefer to come to the forums and post that the mobs in this game are mistreated and need buffs that aren't just more HP's

5. Play the elusive bardcherarti
I haven't seen one of these bardcherarti's and I hope I never do and they are not Elitist in my evil overlord opinion

6. Have a toon in Ravensguard (why do you keep denying my application?!)
While I am the Great Evil overlord of Ravensguard I don't handle recruiting that goes through Rit, amazingly they have denied my request to rename the guild "The Koopa Troopa's" as well but that's another story.

So in closing no matter how nice you are someone in this game will find some way to tick you off. Someone will call you an elitist. Some other players don't want to put in "work" in the game they just want to have fun sign on and do a dungeon with no forward knowledge with their Cha based barbarian. And lastly at some point you just have to play the game the way you want and not project it on others in any way because they are not you and we'll never know why they sign on to an online game that resembles dnd 3.5 instead of enjoying another MMO or real life or plotting to rid the mushroom kingdom of a guy who is so annoying his name is Mario Mario

Bowserkoopa,

People tell me I hate noobs, at this point I go along with it because apparently no matter what you do once you become a vet your an elitist jerk

[Jasparion]

By your own admission, you're a mean elitist. You shouldn't be grouping with newbs.

Because newbs should be running Elites. And that is his fault.

[Sothary]

Sigh... How many days til Christmas? Oh sup Koop!

[Bowser_Koopa]

Hi Soth long time no see

[Knight_slayer]

Hmmm.... pugs, puggers! Nothing has changed. Pugs are exactly as they have always been, completely random. I quite enjoy the randomness of pugging. Just not sure how you get upset because a pugger did something unexpected! A pugger was gimp! OMG... Everyone who joins pick up groups has a bunch stories of someone doing/saying something strange. Something unexpected. They also have stories about meeting really good players. As well as everything in between

Ran a couple PUGs this life, and maybe I've been off soloing and doing guild-only runs

I imagine you never pugged before, or not in a long time.

[chester99]

You should solo more. That's the only takeaway I get from the whole OP. If other people annoy you so much, and if you are (seemingly) unable to interact in a sociable manner with people of lower sill sets then yours... Yeah, solo more. Frankly, the only scenario that I think you are totally absolved of is the Greater Teleport thing. That's on them. The others are very debatable where the blame should rest. Honestly, I think you are as much to blame for what happened as the other folks in the party... just in different ways. If you cannot have empathy for newer or less skilled players - remove them from the equation and just solo. I'm not saying that as a bad thing. I mostly solo myself these days. For different reasons, maybe, but I still solo more then I group. If and when I do group, I let go of my preconceived notions of skill and preparedness on the behalf of the rest of the party. I expect things to go wrong, and have to engage in teaching moments, and know that silly things may happen. That's what is wonderful about PUGs... they are a total grab-bag of skill and readiness. But, if you cannot do likewise, then perhaps it's time to give the PUG scene a break for a while. My opinions only - your mileage will no doubt vary.

False. And while I'm sure someone typed up a similar response to Neville Chamberlain just before his trip to Munich, advice like this is what causes the problem. We can not accept the tards doing tard things. If we do, we're no better than those who let the Germans march over Europe. They need to be called on it and come away with a clear understanding that stupidity is worse than genocide, in a gaming sense. And I'm talking about a gaming sense here: if your mission in play is to be terrible and suck the fun from every aspect of this game, you are stoking the ovens of MMO gaming, ready to push poor folks who still try to PUG into them.Stop the madness. When you see bad plan, let it be known. Things will never get better without that.

[Erofen]

...(makes a note to learn how to type in different colors in other peoples quotes)...
We'll, when you press reply with quote hit the advanced or partly advanced version. (There is a setting is personal preferences thing or whatever you can find on side list when opening PM inbox.)
From there, you should see when replying a bunch of buttons at the type like Font or A. (The color one.)
Then from there proceed to type in whatever color you want between [ QUOTE = ? ] and [ / QUOTE ] .
Hope that helps!

~Somewhat Friendly Neighborhood Halfling

Answer in quote.

[Llewndyn]

Hmmm.... pugs, puggers! Nothing has changed. Pugs are exactly as they have always been, completely random. I quite enjoy the randomness of pugging. Just not sure how you get upset because a pugger did something unexpected! A pugger was gimp! OMG... Everyone who joins pick up groups has a bunch stories of someone doing/saying something strange. Something unexpected. They also have stories about meeting really good players. As well as everything in betweenI imagine you never pugged before, or not in a long time.

Mostly because guildies can't/won't keep up, so I have.

I would respond with snarkiness and snide comments, but I have a lot of respect for you, so I will just say this: I like joining PUGs usually because of randomness as well. I generally don't mind even when stuff like the aforementioned things happen. I only note these 3 examples because they seem to be kind of a theme (well, theme might be a strong word) amongst a lot of PUGs. I've run in some where I'm full on hasted and buffed and running as fast as my little dwarf legs will take me and it's all I can do to lay down a web before everything is dead and then it's time to move again - as I said before, those PUGs are in the slight majority, and are mostly what I expect when I join a PUG. Its when I get some of the stuff above over and over again that I wonder if I missed something.

Also, finally, in none of my scenarios do I mention someone being gimp. It may be implied, but that's not my intent. And I'm not implying I never die - last night I got into an EE Partycrashers, rolled a 1 on knockdown at the fire giant, and rolled nothing higher than a 3 as he hit me 3 times for 700 damage, killing me. I was sad, and a little embarrassed (karma's a B!) and I made sure when I got up I didn't let it happen again and I wasn't put in that situation anymore. In essence, I LEARNED from my mistake. I usually don't play EE because of all the horror stories I hear about it, so I would say I was in much the same boat as a lot of new players, since the strategies and things you have to do are different (even if only slightly). I didn't whine about it, I didn't pike so I wouldn't die after that, I buffed, made sure everyone else was buffed, and moved on with the intent on bettering myself. That's all I ask from newer players.

[Theolin]

....

RE: Greater Shout: I never thought of that. I was using hypnotize and FoD and Circle of Death and PK, and they were hitting, but the cooldowns make it so in between those I was really just laying down ice storm and jumping around like an idiot, the whole time thinking "There has to be a better way"... will give that a try.

Web also works on them ....

[Seikojin]

Scenario 1:
Not letting the cleric in, or clarifying if the cleric was ready is asking for a party wipe. The lack of communication is on everyone's shoulders. So you waiting then pulling is not bad, but not waiting for a cleric response is asking for whining when they wipe. In PuG's, if I know I can't solo content without another player, then I call it out and ask everyone to wait until everyone is there. Just as a courtesy to everyone. Not my requirement, however, politeness almost never fails to pay.
Scenario 2:
I actually have been the victim of speed clicking and accidentally missing loot due to GT dialog. However, I knew it was my fault for being impatient. Clicker beware. In that case, my response would be, sorry, my bad, been there and learned to slow it up when it comes to popups.
Scenario 3:
How long afgo was this?! Was that you?! LOL Seriously though, the tell is bad form, however, being open and clear with players about their survivability in that and not being butthurt over dropping and reforming in hard is all good. I let people learn the hard way when it comes to things as that. I would have told the bard; We can't do elite. The mobs have too high of saves and their damage would drop us like the trash we are. Hard is much more easy. Everyone else who wanted elite have left, so try to catch up with them.

[Livmo]

If you PUG and have no expectations of others, then you won't be disappointed. Things happen and we are all human. Living in the past doesn't help. Each new PUG is it's own creature. Since we cannot go back in time and change the outcomes, its better to move on. Live, learn, and forgive.

[schelsullivan]

In other news, water is wet.

I beg to differ, water is not wet, the thing that has water sticking to it is the thing that is wet.

[Knight_slayer]

I would respond with snarkiness and snide comments

Why? I was not being snarkey, just because I do not agree with you does not mean I am trolling you.

I have had my fair share of run-ins with puggers. One guy in a CITW run I was leading would not stop killing portal keepers at the start of the end fight. I had to ask him to stand in a corner and pike till the raid was complete. At the time it was very frustrating but it's just another bad pugger story to add to the already long list. Have also had fantastic experiences with puggers and have made many friends through random pick up groups. Anyway, I don't think you need to stress because you had a few bad experiences in pugs, there will be many more!

I like joining PUGs usually because of randomness as well. I generally don't mind even when stuff like the aforementioned things happen. Its when I get some of the stuff above over and over again that I wonder if I missed something.

You didn't miss anything, the puggers are the same as they always were! You however have changed a lot. From starting out as a complete noob, like everyone, and grown in to the experienced player you are today. I remember when I didnt know where all the quests were. I would ask for a share in every group I joined. There was a time when I couldn't even afford to buy cure serious potions for myself. I would never have capped my first life if not for the pick up groups I joined.

Also, finally, in none of my scenarios do I mention someone being gimp. It may be implied, but that's not my intent.

You did not, I did. I used it as an example. I wonder how you are so shocked that pugs are full of folks that don't know exactly what their doing! It's normal mate.

[voodoogroves]

Usually I'm short-manning with guildies, but I'm trying real hard to PUG out the open spots.

When there are no guildies on (which, small guild = frequent) I end up pugging - either starting or joining.

I have to say, most of the groups I'm in have had 2-3 pretty rocking folks, then the rest is a mix you can't predict - but I've had solid cores in most of the groups for the last few weeks.

There have been a few that are moving way too slow for my preference, but I don't stay in those. Others are solid enough we can fast-farm (where 2 is handier than 1, like Fleshmaker's, Vol now, etc.).

I've also been pleasantly surprised at the newer players who try to keep up and are asking questions about how to do things with speed/efficiency, etc.

All in all, my recent pugging experience has been pretty good. That includes a nice fast blitz of some GH and Orchard w/ Exploits earlier today, etc. and Vhaewhatever earlier than that.

[blackdoguk]

All in all, my recent pugging experience has been pretty good. That includes a nice fast blitz of some GH and Orchard w/ Exploits.

Epic exploiting reported on the forums.

[voodoogroves]

Epic exploiting reported on the forums.

I totally ran Fleshmakers yesterday with Exploits. I admit it, I'm a dirty cheat. They were the old school variety, if I recall. BAN MEH

I think once I also cured Light Wounds.

[exploitss]

Usually I'm short-manning with guildies, but I'm trying real hard to PUG out the open spots.

When there are no guildies on (which, small guild = frequent) I end up pugging - either starting or joining.

I have to say, most of the groups I'm in have had 2-3 pretty rocking folks, then the rest is a mix you can't predict - but I've had solid cores in most of the groups for the last few weeks.

There have been a few that are moving way too slow for my preference, but I don't stay in those. Others are solid enough we can fast-farm (where 2 is handier than 1, like Fleshmaker's, Vol now, etc.).

I've also been pleasantly surprised at the newer players who try to keep up and are asking questions about how to do things with speed/efficiency, etc.

All in all, my recent pugging experience has been pretty good. That includes a nice fast blitz of some GH and Orchard w/ Exploits earlier today, etc. and Vhaewhatever earlier than that.

Please Please dont Rush you will all get an Autograph eventually =P -Exploits

[eryah]

[QUOTE=Greater Teleport gives you 58 seconds to click Accept. In that time, you can swap weapons, make sweet love to your partner, check inventory, raid buff, and STILL have 40 seconds to teleport! If it's not what you want you can also click....DECLINE. I respond with something like "It's not my fault you are dumb. I will take your statement as a compliment, thanks!" and drop party. Is it now rude to cast greater Teleport? Because if so I could have saved a ton of plat not buying a stack of said scrolls...[/QUOTE]
Hahahah what a dum dum would complain about getting a free GT... i mean u should have sent him to the Nightforge... guess your jsut a good player running into bad groups ... i still have faith in PUGs i really do but from time to time I just want the quest to be over so i can quit group... Lets face it we were all newbies (noobs) at some point... I like to give advice, but I dont see ppl really taking info in often... anyways keep PUGging so you can keep telling this kind of stories its refreshing

p.s. dnt know if i quotted properly