Ranger AA 11r/6m/3pally

[sephiroth1084]

I don't have time to test it now but I can later on.

Bladeforged get Weapon Attachment, adding another .5[w] and I've heard to the contrary about IPA from a friend who is running a BF monkcher. I've also heard from a seperate friend that IMA works on bows, but I'll test it regardless.

Personally I just didnt like a lot of the stuff in the middle of the AA tree, and it was either go a bit into DWS and AA or mostly in one and very few in another. I played it with mostly AA, little DWS for a while, but now I am mostly in DWS with a little in AA.

When the new enhancements rolled out I went mostly DWS with a mix of AA, because I had been looking forward to DWS--I like the idea of that better than AA (always have...back in the day, I stuck to the awful Sniper's Shot for a looong time before caving and swapping to AA), then changed over to mostly AA with a big chunk of DWS and liked it much better. Now, I tend to have only 11 AP in DWS--enough to just get Sniper's Shot, or 13 if I take +1 Wis--and around 37 AP in AA.

Even when I was still in Shiradi, I found Slayer Arrows, Improved Shock Arrows (Vulnerability), Inferno Shot, Paralyzing Arrows, to be better than anything DWS was really offering. I wish they'd do a little work on the enhancements in DWS 3, 4 and 5...Head Shot doesn't need to have such a long cooldown, Aimed Shot is kind of underwhelming, as is Improved Archer's Focus, and Favored Accuracy is too expensive at +2 per rank just to unlock Favored Damage.

I find the Archer's Focus stuff kind of underwhelming, because I very rarely find myself able to stand still long enough to build up and maintain even a 15 stack with any regularity. I really liked Leg Shot, but not enough to spend the addition 7-9 points in the tree to pick it up.

[sephiroth1084]

Bladeforged huh? What do the stats look like on that with the -2 Dex and Wis? Do you dump Dex and Combat Archery, getting the rest of your archery feats from ranger 12? What does your Wis end up at?

Weapon Attachment, in that situation, ends up merely ameliorating the loss of Combat Archery (+.5W vs. +1W). What's your Dodge looking like at cap? And what gear do you end up with?

Having Reconstruct on the cheap, and every 6 seconds looks impressive, and freeing up a twist would also be nice.

[Zoda]

Bladeforged huh? What do the stats look like on that with the -2 Dex and Wis? Do you dump Dex and Combat Archery, getting the rest of your archery feats from ranger 12? What does your Wis end up at?

Weapon Attachment, in that situation, ends up merely ameliorating the loss of Combat Archery (+.5W vs. +1W). What's your Dodge looking like at cap? And what gear do you end up with?

Having Reconstruct on the cheap, and every 6 seconds looks impressive, and freeing up a twist would also be nice.

I dump dex and combat archery, my wisdom is 48 (50 with pot) at the end with +4 tome and I do take OC. I can't look at my dodge atm, because Argo is down (!!!). Gear is pretty standard monkcher gear, just docent instead of robe, I have +11 and +2 insightful wis items atm (Livewood Core is also an option for BF, but I don't think it worths dropping the black scale).

When I designed the build, I was really counting with the BF imp pa line working on Heavy Draw (as per HD's description), but it doesn't, so I may not go for the same build in the reflection of that now, but the build works nice as it is, and the minimal dps loss is very well compensated by the boost in survivability (and I love Power of the Forge too). My monk archer is not my main, and its build hasn't been updated since u11, I just wanted to get another ez button EE farmer/soloer with minimal effort, and for that purpose, I think Bladeforged is ideal (I only have 3 ranger and 2 monk past lives on it, would want to grind pally PLs for fleshie at least, probably arti too).

[Vengenance]

[QUOTE=Arsont;5203238]

We are in accord, the best split for this is 11/6/3, but I still beg FvS over pally.

3 pally benefits are pretty much useless, IMO. Everything 3 pally gives can pretty much be covered by items or buffs. As perviously noted, 2 pally is really where it's at, for Divine Grace.

I think it'd be worth comparing an elven 3 pally splash to a helf 3 fvs splash a bit more in-depth. All the following ap totals will be inclusive, assuming you take just enough enhancements to unlock the item.

Assuming both builds are going to be almost exclusively ranged, and both are spending:
-32 in AA (Minimum needed for slayers)
-11 in Ninja Spy (Minimum needed for Shadow Fade)
-17 in Racial (Elf only needs to spend 14 to unlock AA, Helf needs to spend 16 for full +5 dilly bonus)
=60 mandatory ap (Elf minimum could be 57, standardizing for), 20 free ap.


3 pally: 3/1/1 base saves, +30 hp (d10), +1 saves base aura. +1 to-hit w/ bows (SF)
-KotC gives +2/4 saves vs EO/Undead (Core 1/2), +10% heal amp (12 ap). KotC also gives DM (11 ap for tier 3), but as noted, would require a twist or taking the Turn Undead feat.
-Defender tree gives +3 LoH (3 ap), +6 saves boost with no-fail on a 1 (6 ap), +3 to saves aura (13 ap in Defender tree). Defender also gives +1 hp/ap spent.

3 Fvs: 3/3/3 base saves, +27 hp (d8). +2/+1 to-hit/damage w/bows (SF)
-Warpriest gives DR 5/ (Core 2), DM (3 ap), +15 hp (3 ap), +3 enhancement bonus to bows (12 ap), +10 PRR (8 ap), +4 Hit/Damage boost (8 ap, can be improved to give +4 saves for a total 11 ap. Can be further improved to give 15% energy absorbtion for total 14 ap).
-AoV gives +3 saves vs magic (3 ap).

As you can see, it's a lot more ap intensive for the paladin split in order to pick up everything you might want. I would probably be tempted to go with 13 ap in KotC to pick up the 10% amp, put 4 ap in Defender for the extra LoH, 1 point to Shintao for another 10% amp, a point in DWS for the first core, then the rest into AA.

For a Fvs split, I'd be tempted to spend 13 ap in Warpriest and get full DM, +15 hp and +3 to bows, then 1 in DWS and then 6 in Shintao for the second core. I'm not 100% sure what "saves vs magic" really means; I'm assuming it means all spells and probably some traps. Depending on what all it applies to, I'd be willing to drop some points out of shintao.

So enhancements are tight, but doable on both builds.


Now, the main point in considering 3 pally: saves.

A fvs splash w/ pally dilly is going to be at 8/8/8. A pally splash will be at 3/1/1, or 4/2/2 with aura, + cha mod. So yes, while a pally will have higher saves, you'd need at least a 24 cha to beat the fvs splash (More if the +3 from AoV is reliable). Shouldn't be too hard; 9 base+3 tome+2 completionist+10 item=24. Couple ways it could be changed, but you need to beat 24. Still doable. However, it begs the question: How much improved is it really going to be vs a Fvs splash? And at what cost?

I guess I just wanted to give a little more insight as to why I'm so fond of the fvs splash.

My saves will be better with a pally splash than with a FVS splash. At 25 with only a +7 Char Item I'm at a 30 Cha and should be ~36 when I hit 28, which would be +6 higher on saves than with a FVS splash. As soon as I cap I'll post the build with final numbers.

[bree22]

[QUOTE=Vengenance;5206069]

My saves will be better with a pally splash than with a FVS splash. At 25 with only a +7 Char Item I'm at a 30 Cha and should be ~36 when I hit 28, which would be +6 higher on saves than with a FVS splash. As soon as I cap I'll post the build with final numbers.

Are the last 3 core abilities worth it or needed? The only reason I asked was with 11 ranger you have access to tier 5 AA and DWS trees.

[Vengenance]

[QUOTE=bree22;5212306]

Are the last 3 core abilities worth it or needed? The only reason I asked was with 11 ranger you have access to tier 5 AA and DWS trees.

My Ranger is currently level 28 and mostly complete now (still working on a few gear items). My version is Elf and I use the eleven arcane archer enhancements and not the ranger enhancements. I get everything later but I get everything including Tier 5 core abilities at level 25. At 28 my saves are all over 60. My wisdom is 42-46 depending on stance for 10K stars. Strength can be self-buffed to ~60 using divine might. I'll post the build as is later this week, pretty sure I have everything laid out in excel from my last Epic TR.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Firstly, I'd like to apologize in advance if I seem patronizing or if I'm just rehashing things you already know. Since I'm not familiar with you or your toon, I'm going to try to keep my assumptions low, so please bear with me. That being said...

I'd suggest neither 3 pally nor 7 monk; 3 pally benefits are pretty weak. As noted earlier, you want 2 pally or 4 pally. While 7 monk is tempting for Wholeness of Body, I find that Cocoon makes it obsolete. If your goal is endgame, I'd stay away from 7 monk. I think 11/6/3 Ranger/Monk/Fvs or Cleric on a helf with pally dilly is your best bet; You could go 12 ranger, but really all that gets you is a couple minor spell benefits. 3 Cleric or FvS lets you pick up Divine Might and a couple other little goodies. I personally like FvS over cleric; More sp, more (Potential) uses of Divine Might and an extra +1 hit/damage from faith feats. Cleric does get "free" DM via turns, but depening on your playstyle there might not be enough turns. Both classes have their benefits though.


While you might think putting points in cha would be a waste, it's not really; With every cha mod, Divine Might is another +1 str, and +1 to saves with pally dilly, up to +5 (With max line). Assuming minimal cha investment, you can easily hit the 20 cha needed to cap out pally dilly (13+1 tome+6 item).

Let's play pretend. Assuming you want to pick up Combat Archery, pally dilly and have a decent 10k stars, it might look something like this:
13 str
16 dex (Enough for Combat Archery with +1 level and +4 tome)
14 con
8 int
16 wis
13 cha

While str seems low, you'll still be able to get it to a modest value:
13 base+6 level+1 exc+8 item+2 insight+5 primal+5 tome+2 rams+2 yugo+2 completionist-2 ocean=44
Add a gimpy +6 Divine Might and you should be able to hit 50 str easy. This isn't counting +9/10 str items, Alchemical/Tensor's, Titan's, +3 insightful, profane...there's plenty to go around.


On another note, looking at your epic feat selections...I'd suggest getting rid of Doubleshot and picking up either Perfect Two Weapon fighting or the thf variant if you have to choose from a primal feat. Otherwise, you could look at Spell Power:Positive or even Toughness. Reason being: Manyshot gives a -100% doubleshot chance for 70 seconds, starting at activation. 10k Stars does the same, but for 45 seconds. So depending on your rotation, you're going to be stuck with single-shot damage or melee (Might as well make use of those cleaves) for the downtime. Unless Turbine changes it, Doubleshot is pretty much ghostbaned for monkchers right now.

I'm assuming you took the sorc PL for the sp; 3 fvs should warrant dropping that in favor of something else. I'd suggest Combat Archery, which is currently WAI (+1[W], 2% dodge when ranged). I'd also suggest swapping Ruin for something; I find Ruin is weak without the spell power and metas to back it up. I'd highly suggest Empower Heal for the boost to Cocoon. Otherwise, Blinding Speed can be useful if you find yourself running solo or whatnot.

Anyhow, hopefully I've brought up something useful. I'll be glad to clarify if I've been vague on anything. Good luck with your build!

just a thought - FvS - Battlepriest with Silver Flame as Diety - Longbows become favored weapons and with a few enhancements you get divine might and up to +30 spell power (favored weapon tier 2) and a stacking +3 enhancement to longbows

[sephiroth1084]

[QUOTE=bree22;5212306]

Are the last 3 core abilities worth it or needed? The only reason I asked was with 11 ranger you have access to tier 5 AA and DWS trees.

Not really. Aligned Arrows from AA is nice, but not necessary, since we have ways to do that (Good red augment, Holy Arrows, Flame Touched Arrows, Silver Flame Arrows, buff from an artificer). The problem used to be hitting 2 types of DR, but with Metalline and Morphic Arrows, that isn't really a problem. Then Shadow arrows and the capstone are worthless on a monkcher because you'll basically never be seeing doubleshots unless you're being lazy about 10K Stars and Manyshot.

This is why I wouldn't bother spending the extra 4 AP to unlock Elven AA--you just aren't gaining anything truly significant for that extra AP you're spending.

As for DWS, I think the last 3 cores look pretty good, but they just don't stack up against the benefits of 6 monk/2 or 3 something else.

[Raiderone]

Definitely Elf or Half-elf for the improved archery in the Core Enhancements. I think going 11 ranger/ 6 monk/3 pally versus 12monk/6ranger/2 pally is just a matter of personal choice.

You want to have more skills, then 11r/6m/3p. If you want more versatility in dps, then 12m/6r/2p. I like 3pally but wouldnt take it in the 12monk build.

You might even want to the 11ranger build to be 3fvs for longbow enhancement boost. Maybe even Pally Dili for those extra saves, if needed. But focusing only on AA not TWF.
I was even thinking of a 9monk/7ranger/4pally or 4 fvs...

[bree22]

So I finished my last life on 1/26/14, but had to take a month off for work. I finally have time to do my final life. I decided to do 11ranger/6monk/3fvs H-elf with Polly dilly. I ended getting +5 tomes for str, dex and was, so I can take O/C and C/A. I started with 16 str and dex and 14 was. I will put 2levelups into str and rest into wis. I will update when I get higher up. I will post the build in detail in few days.

[bree22]

returning to the game on a limited basis. I had to take 5 months off for RL and really don't have as much time to play like I use to.

So my question is this, is my 11r/6m/3fvs h-elf pally dil still viable? Breee is still a completionist til a new class is added and then i will have to do that life when it is time.

[AbyssalMage]

returning to the game on a limited basis. I had to take 5 months off for RL and really don't have as much time to play like I use to.

So my question is this, is my 11r/6m/3fvs h-elf pally dil still viable? Breee is still a completionist til a new class is added and then i will have to do that life when it is time.

Yes, its still viable.

[unbongwah]

So my question is this, is my 11r/6m/3fvs h-elf pally dil still viable?

While it's still viable, the latest FotM among monkchers is monk 6 / pal 14 for Holy Sword (+1 crit range & multiplier). Because of feat shortage, there's no room for Bow Str, so this either needs to be an elf with Grace for DEX to dmg or elf/HE with Harper for INT to dmg. See this build as one example.