Revisiting Bardchers (U20)

[unbongwah]

This thread is intended to supersede my original Bardcher thread - because nothing says "powergamer" like taking the gimpiest DDO combat style and marrying it to the Rodney Dangerfield of D&D classes.

For the purposes of this thread, "bardcher" is simply a bard (duh) who uses a bow (also duh). At a minimum, every build will have Manyshot, either Bow Strength or Elven Grace, and at least the first tier of Arcane Archer; which means either a ranger splash or access to the elven / half-elven AA tree. I prefer my archers to have at least some melee DPS as a backup, so most builds will add that as well.

Fresh Off the Korthos Boat (28-pt F2P-friendly builds)

Human Trapper Bardcher

First up is a build I'm considering LRing one of my bards into, who was lucky enough to get two raider's boxes; she's also already got an eElyd, so all her single-target songs like Heroics are mass buffs. She used the first box to claim a Balizarde; I'm strongly considering using the second to claim a Pinion, which gives me an excuse to do this:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Rogue \ 3 Ranger \ 15 Bard \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 340
Spell Points: 525 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    12
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               6                    15
Bluff                -1                     8
Concentration         4                    34
Diplomacy             3                    33
Disable Device        5                    31
Haggle               -1                     8
Heal                  1                    22
Hide                  2                    11
Intimidate           -1                     8
Jump                  6                    19
Listen               -1                     7
Move Silently         2                    11
Open Lock             6                    15
Perform              n/a                   31
Repair                1                     9
Search                5                    32
Spellcraft            1                     9
Spot                  3                    11
Swim                  3                    16
Tumble                3                    12
Use Magic Device      3                    31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Search (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Heal (+5)
Skill: Search (+3)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Skill: Search (+3)
Feat: (Selected) Manyshot


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+3)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Sewers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Dead (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Music of the Makers (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Haunting Melody (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Magical Studies (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sharp Note (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Sustaining Song (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Arcane Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Song of Capering (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Vigor (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Frolic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Enchant Weapon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Iced Edges (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Gathering Cold (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Northwind (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Sneak Attack (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Increased Empathy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Versatile Empathy (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

Goals: solid TWF DPS, inc. Cleave/GC/OC feats; Manyshot; strong bard buffs (inc. Inspire Excellence); some backup healing support; rogue splash for trap skills + Evasion

Drawbacks: no metamagics except Emp Heal nor level 6 spells - I'll miss MCMW & Otto's Irresistable. I could switch to 16/2/2; but losing rgr 3 means giving up +10% offhand procs from Tempest, Morphic Arrows from AA, and +1d6 SA +10 Pos Spellpower from DWS. So it basically boils down to extra DPS vs an extra CC & healing option.

32-pt builds can bump up CON to 16 or CHA to 14; 34-pt builds can boost STR to 18 or spread pts a bit more.

Epic Destinies: Fury of the Wild (FotW) is the best overall ED for TWF+Manyshot toons. I'd already maxed out Fatesinger and was making my way over to the Primal tree when U19 hit.

Elven Bardcher

And now for something not-quite-completely different. This version sacrifices the rog splash for rgr 4 / ftr 1; this trades trap skills & Evasion for Precise Shot, Ram's Might, and an extra ftr feat. I took advantage of elf's higher base DEX and Prec Shot to add Improved Precise Shot and Combat Archery; I also focused on the elven AA tree. So this build is definitely a lot more focused on ranged DPS, although it still has full TWF chain.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Elf Female
(1 Fighter \ 4 Ranger \ 15 Bard \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 346
Spell Points: 570 
BAB: 16\16\21\26\26
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 18
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            17                    21
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 17
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 23

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               7                    24
Bluff                -1                     8
Concentration         6                    34
Diplomacy            -1                     8
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                     8
Heal                 -1                    29
Hide                  3                    13
Intimidate           -1                     8
Jump                  6                    19
Listen               -1                     9
Move Silently         3                    13
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform               3                    31
Repair               -1                     7
Search               -1                     9
Spellcraft           -1                     7
Spot                 -1                     9
Swim                  3                    15
Tumble                4                    14
Use Magic Device      3                    31

Level 1 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Jump (+3)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+5)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Manyshot


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+3)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Heal (+5)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+4)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Arcane Fluidity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Arcane Fluidity (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Arcane Fluidity (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Arcanum (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Aligned Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - True Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Elf) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spellsinger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Lingering Songs (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand Heightening (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Enthrallment (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Spellsinger (Brd) - Spell Song Trance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Archery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Inspire Excellence


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Lasting Inspiration


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting

Extend can be swapped for Power Atk if you'd rather boost melee DPS than buff duration; or Quicken to pair with Emp Heal later on.

Tomes: req's +2 DEX tome for IPS and +2->+3 upgrade tome for CA @ lvl 24. If you take the +2 DEX tome before lvl 15, you can move rgr 4 to lvl 15; this lets you take IPS 3 lvls sooner.

Enhancements: since you have to spend at least 14 APs into elf tree to unlock racial AA and at least 32 APs to get Arrow of Slaying, you're pretty constrained on APs. You can see I spread what was left between bard PrEs, Tempest (+10% offhand), and DWS (+1d6 SA +10 Pos Spellpower).

Skills: Concentration, Perform, and UMD are the must-haves on any bard build, IMHO; I also pumped up Heal as much as I could, since that now boosts Pos Spellpower. Leftover pts went into Balance, but you could also boost Haggle, Spot, Diplomacy, whatever.

[unbongwah]

Reserved

[unbongwah]

Reserved x2

[Treefq]

Why is the Elven Charisma at 8? I was under the impression Bards need high Cha. Only been playing for a few weeks. I opened up Half Elf race. Was curious how one would use HElf for this build.

[BoBoDaClown]

Why is the Elven Charisma at 8? I was under the impression Bards need high Cha. Only been playing for a few weeks. I opened up Half Elf race. Was curious how one would use HElf for this build.

Charisma is for casting spells (particularly high DC), so if you are not going to be casting many...

To be fair, on a new player's bard, I'd recommend 12 or so starting charisma, so they don't have to worry about items/tome etc to qualify for minimum charisma per bard spell level, plus it gives them a boost to UMD.

[unbongwah]

Why is the Elven Charisma at 8? I was under the impression Bards need high Cha.

In order to cast a spell, you need casting stat 10 + spell level; since the first two builds only get lvl 5 spells, this means they need CHA 15. Fortunately, any bonuses to CHA count towards that requirement; you can use Eagle's Splendor wands early on until you get a +3 CHA item (ML:5 normally, ML:3 w/Masterful Craftsmanship). Eventually you'll want either a +7 CHA item or CHA tome & item. Most of the lvl 1 bard spells aren't that great anyway, IMHO, so it's not a big loss if you can't use spells for the first couple of levels.

The elf could start CON 12 CHA 12 to make things a bit easier on itself early on; but in the long run I'd rather have the extra HPs.

[pappo]

In order to cast a spell, you need casting stat 10 + spell level; since the first two builds only get lvl 5 spells, this means they need CHA 15. Fortunately, any bonuses to CHA count towards that requirement; you can use Eagle's Splendor wands early on until you get a +3 CHA item (ML:5 normally, ML:3 w/Masterful Craftsmanship). Eventually you'll want either a +7 CHA item or CHA tome & item. Most of the lvl 1 bard spells aren't that great anyway, IMHO, so it's not a big loss if you can't use spells for the first couple of levels.

The elf could start CON 12 CHA 12 to make things a bit easier on itself early on; but in the long run I'd rather have the extra HPs.

You fight ranged until they get within melee range and then what weapons do you recommend for the levels before eElyd's are available on the human bardcher ?

[unbongwah]

You fight ranged until they get within melee range and then what weapons do you recommend for the levels before eElyd's are available on the human bardcher ?

For the first several levels, use whatever's the best 2H weapon(s) you can get - Carnifex, Cannith greataxe, etc. - and cleave away (when not Fascinating, ofc). After lvl 9 & ITWF is when I'd switch to dual-wielding; once you have IC:Pierce, go for either rapiers or heavy picks: Deathnips would be great, but Lit2 rapiers, Cannith air rapiers, Turbulent Epees, etc. would be acceptable alternatives - again, whatever's the best weapons you can get. Endgame your goal will be a pair of Balizardes (plus Pinion) from CitW, but that'll be a while; I found eElyd + eCannith Air rapier made an acceptable epic "starter" duo (particularly when in Fatesinger). For bows, I consider Silver Longbow, Cannith acid longbow, and Bow of Sinew solid picks for heroic leveling.

[LoneWolfie]

Any ideas on how you would change this up if someone wanted to use only a bow. What i'm looking toward is a character to do slayer only, solo with a hire or maybe a duo now and then with a friend. Wouldn't need trapping abilities at all. Wouldn't use any kind of melee weapons. Strictly bows and arrows. I used to try to think up builds but my mind doesn't work as good as it did. I am hoping you can help with this idea. If not thanks for posting this, maybe i can get a friend to see about helping me with it. Always liked your builds. If i can provide any more information to help you make adjustments if you are willing please let me know.

edited to mention i don't have half elf, nor druid/fvs/monk on the account i'd be making this on.

[unbongwah]

You could take the elven Bardcher and replace ITWF & GTWF with other feats, like more metamagics; also drop the Tempest enhs. But be forewarned that your ranged DPS while MS is on cooldown will be low; which is why I invest in melee as well.

[LoneWolfie]

You could take the elven Bardcher and replace ITWF & GTWF with other feats, like more metamagics; also drop the Tempest enhs. But be forewarned that your ranged DPS while MS is on cooldown will be low; which is why I invest in melee as well.

I had a bardcher before but it's been so long since i played i forgot what it was... I was fine with low to middling dps as this character will be used only for slayer areas which don't really require that much dps. Only quests i did on the other character were korthos and a couple harbors for coinlord favor for pack space and later on had a friend bring a high level toon for some house k stuff for bank space. The thing that really confuses me since coming back is this enhancement pass and i can't decide yet whether i like it or think it's horrid lol. only time and more experience with it will tell i think.

[Aerendil]

Anyone try out a Cleric or FVS splash for a Bardcher? Divine Might seems as though it has fantastic synergy with a Bard, who can easily obtain a 30+ Cha (+10 to dmg).
Combined with Inflame (Warpriest tier2), your Inspire Courage, any Ranger PLs, and a few other bonuses (i.e. Tailwind), and you have some nice damage.

Thinking 15 Bard, 4 Ranger, 1 FVS. Or 15/3/2 if you want Inflame.

[Rhaphael]

Anyone try out a Cleric or FVS splash for a Bardcher? Divine Might seems as though it has fantastic synergy with a Bard, who can easily obtain a 30+ Cha (+10 to dmg).
Combined with Inflame (Warpriest tier2), your Inspire Courage, any Ranger PLs, and a few other bonuses (i.e. Tailwind), and you have some nice damage.

Thinking 15 Bard, 4 Ranger, 1 FVS. Or 15/3/2 if you want Inflame.

In my experience using Divine Might with high CHA still results in lower damage potential than directly boosting STR instead. Not just for archers, but melee as well. Simply because of the many existing ways to buff STR that don't exist to buff CHA.

[Aerendil]

In my experience using Divine Might with high CHA still results in lower damage potential than directly boosting STR instead. Not just for archers, but melee as well. Simply because of the many existing ways to buff STR that don't exist to buff CHA.

You misunderstand. You'd still go full STR. But it's pretty easy for a Bard to get 30+ CHA too.
Base 16 cha + 8 item + 4 tome + 2 exceptional cha + 2 inspire excellence = 32 = +11 to dmg.

But yes, go full STR. That same boost could also include Primal Scream (+5), Tenser's (+4), and Skaldic (+4) to put you in the mid-40s which is pretty impressive.

[unbongwah]

The main reason I didn't take a cleric/FvS splash on my Bardchers is the feat shortage; even my bard 15 / rgr 4 / ftr 1 build doesn't have as many feats as I would like, so I'm reluctant to give up even one feat. Plus as you can see both builds dump-stat CHA, making it that much harder to make DM useful, since you need at least CHA 18 before DM > Insight STR +3 item. Figure on base 8 + 2 tome + 8 item + 2 Insight CHA = 20 (+5) as a reasonable minimum epic target; more if you have access to ship buffs, a better tome, etc.

[giftie]

Base 16 cha + 8 item + 4 tome + 2 exceptional cha + 2 inspire excellence = 32 = +11 to dmg.

You mean +11 to STR, which only comes out to +5.5 to damage (for bow and main hand TWF, more for THF).

[Aerendil]

You mean +11 to STR, which only comes out to +5.5 to damage (for bow and main hand TWF, more for THF).

Doh. Yeah, you're right. Still not bad, but it does lose some of the appeal. Combined with Inflame, though, it's not bad - but would require a /2 FvS splash which isn't really feasible unfortunately :/

[unbongwah]

Although not a bardcher, one idea for a melee bard build I had was bard 15 / cleric or FvS 4: the heavy divine splash gains you Smite Foe / Weakness, Divine Might, Wall of Steel, Enflame, and Ameliorating Strike. The final lvl can be bard 16 for lvl 6 spells or a splash of something else (ftr for feat & Haste Boost, barb for run speed & +3 Power Atk, etc.).

[Olds-cool]

Wha??? No Bladeforged option?

[unbongwah]

Also: no monkcher option. Sorry!