Help my wife and I please...

[Soraksis]

Hello,

My wife and I were thinking of returning to DDO. We havent played in a few years so we are pretty much starting over with little to no knowledge of the game as it is now. We aren't really looking for raiding and all that atleast not now, we have drows unlocked but not the 32 point builds or anything else. We have decided not to go vip because we arent sure if we will like the game enough to pay for it, maybe later that will happen. we are looking to duo through the content maybe run with a group on rare occasions if it comes up but we will not be actively looking for groups really. With that in mind we were thinking about running a pair of paladins because we were under the impression they are a very solo friendly class to play so it should be very easy to duo a pair of them as well.

Now our issues are really with how to build them. What stats should we start off with? Should we use drows or humans? I read that alot of people are building pallys for two weapon fighting is that what we should do or is it better with two hand weapons or sword and board? What feats should we invest in? Some one told me to start level one with rogue for more skill points for UMD and a few others. I was also reading and found people are not putting points into wis to get this from items is that sound advice? As you can see we are completely at a loss as to how to even get started. Any help would be appreciated. I am not worried really about making a perfect toon right away I am sure we will make others later once we figure things out but we will most likely play these ones for a good while atleast until we unlock the 32 point builds. We just want to have some toons that we are comfortable with, and we dont get that feeling like we gimped them right away and stop playing because of it. Thank you

[HastyPudding]

A few things you should know:

1. I'll start off with saying this: paladins are the most complicated class to build correctly, as they rely on several different stats in balanced proportions. 28 point builds also make poor paladins due to not having enough stat points. If you still want to play a paladin, go for it, but be advised that it could be rough.

2. Pure 20 paladin is a big no-no. Nobody should ever have more than 14 levels of paladin; not ever, for any reason. Even then, few people go for more than 6-12. Paladin is a front-loaded class (lots of good stuff early on, and very little to offer in higher levels).

3. Paladins are not a high-damage class. There's a trade-off, and that's trading dps potential with very high self-healing and survivability. If you're looking to be a powerhouse, stop reading this and look elsewhere. If you're looking for a balanced, self-sufficient, interesting class, continue reading.

4. Paladins are feat-starved; even going human for the extra feat, you'll probably encounter issues with not having enough feats for what you want. Many builds utilize several fighter levels for more feats.

5. While drow have that nice +2 charisma, I really wouldn't go drow as a paladin. Human makes a better one, in my opinion, as stated above, because paladins are feat-starved, and the extra skill points and feat a human gets far outweighs anything drow can give. Drow also have low HP, not something you want with a front-line melee build. Humans also have access to several action boosts, good healing amplification, and lots of customization with stats and skill points.


The easiest way to play a paladin is a standard THF (two-handed fighting) build, most likely using a greatsword or greataxe. Get your strength to a minimum of 16, get your constitution to 14-16, then pump everything else in charisma, putting your points as you level up into strength. Get power attack, cleave, great cleave, and the two-handed fighting feats and whack away at your enemies. The class split is up to you, but fighter levels will make your feat issues go away; every 2 fighter levels is another feat you can take, and the more you have the easier it is to spec into the Kensei fighter tree for more dps options.

TWF (two-weapon fighting) builds are the second most common way to build a paladin, which will most likely be using khopeshes, scimitars, or the occasional bastard sword or dwarven axe. These builds are extremely feat-intensive, almost requiring 2-6 levels of fighter for the amount of feats you need. I would not recommend a TWF paladin as a first life build or without stat tomes to help you as you level; you just don't have enough stat points as a 28 point character. Splashing levels of ranger can help with this type of paladin, and also gives you access to the tempest enhancement tree, which specializes in heavy TWF dps.

S&B (sword and board) is another way to play a paladin. Paladins makes the best S&B builds because of their innate high saves, good hp, naturally high AC, immunity to fear, and self healing. S&B builds are also very low on the damage-output end, but if you want something survivable, you can't get any better than a tank paladin. Stats are identical to the THF build. Depending on what you want, you can do a typical 14/6 palifighter split or add in monk levels and configure your points accordingly. Remember, more fighter levels equals more feats and more access to the stalwart and kensei trees.

I wouldn't ordinarily recommend a S&B paladin normally, but if you're always going to be in a group with each other, a tank paladin and a THF paladin would make a good duo, although one of you might want to splash levels of rogue for trapping skills. You could also one of you play a paladin tank and the other plays a rogue-like character; the tank can easily hold aggro which helps the rogue deal damage. Also, a THF paladin and a cleric is an excellent duo group.

[cdbd3rd]

I don't have anything to add in regard to paladins, but would suggest you diversify your classes.
A rogue-splashed caster (as one example) would compliment your proposed melee character well, giving you a wider range of abilities as a team.

[Uska]

A few things you should know:

1. I'll start off with saying this: paladins are the most complicated class to build correctly, as they rely on several different stats in balanced proportions. 28 point builds also make poor paladins due to not having enough stat points. If you still want to play a paladin, go for it, but be advised that it could be rough.

2. Pure 20 paladin is a big no-no. Nobody should ever have more than 14 levels of paladin; not ever, for any reason. Even then, few people go for more than 6-12. Paladin is a front-loaded class (lots of good stuff early on, and very little to offer in higher levels).

3. Paladins are not a high-damage class. There's a trade-off, and that's trading dps potential with very high self-healing and survivability. If you're looking to be a powerhouse, stop reading this and look elsewhere. If you're looking for a balanced, self-sufficient, interesting class, continue reading.

4. Paladins are feat-starved; even going human for the extra feat, you'll probably encounter issues with not having enough feats for what you want. Many builds utilize several fighter levels for more feats.

5. While drow have that nice +2 charisma, I really wouldn't go drow as a paladin. Human makes a better one, in my opinion, as stated above, because paladins are feat-starved, and the extra skill points and feat a human gets far outweighs anything drow can give. Drow also have low HP, not something you want with a front-line melee build. Humans also have access to several action boosts, good healing amplification, and lots of customization with stats and skill points.


The easiest way to play a paladin is a standard THF (two-handed fighting) build, most likely using a greatsword or greataxe. Get your strength to a minimum of 16, get your constitution to 14-16, then pump everything else in charisma, putting your points as you level up into strength. Get power attack, cleave, great cleave, and the two-handed fighting feats and whack away at your enemies. The class split is up to you, but fighter levels will make your feat issues go away; every 2 fighter levels is another feat you can take, and the more you have the easier it is to spec into the Kensei fighter tree for more dps options.

TWF (two-weapon fighting) builds are the second most common way to build a paladin, which will most likely be using khopeshes, scimitars, or the occasional bastard sword or dwarven axe. These builds are extremely feat-intensive, almost requiring 2-6 levels of fighter for the amount of feats you need. I would not recommend a TWF paladin as a first life build or without stat tomes to help you as you level; you just don't have enough stat points as a 28 point character. Splashing levels of ranger can help with this type of paladin, and also gives you access to the tempest enhancement tree, which specializes in heavy TWF dps.

S&B (sword and board) is another way to play a paladin. Paladins makes the best S&B builds because of their innate high saves, good hp, naturally high AC, immunity to fear, and self healing. S&B builds are also very low on the damage-output end, but if you want something survivable, you can't get any better than a tank paladin. Stats are identical to the THF build. Depending on what you want, you can do a typical 14/6 palifighter split or add in monk levels and configure your points accordingly. Remember, more fighter levels equals more feats and more access to the stalwart and kensei trees.

I wouldn't ordinarily recommend a S&B paladin normally, but if you're always going to be in a group with each other, a tank paladin and a THF paladin would make a good duo, although one of you might want to splash levels of rogue for trapping skills. You could also one of you play a paladin tank and the other plays a rogue-like character; the tank can easily hold aggro which helps the rogue deal damage. Also, a THF paladin and a cleric is an excellent duo group.

I take exception to your statement about paladins my first life pure drow does fine in all EE content

[Satyriasys]

Paladins really are not very good. If you are planning to run together with just your wife I would suggest playing different classes to complement each other for a wider variety of abilities and roles.

I would suggest a Rogue so you can get traps, otherwise you may have problems in certain quests. Also you get a nice XP bonus for disabling traps and finding secret doors! If you enjoy Wizards a 18 Wiz/2 Rogue is a very good build and good as a Drow.

For the other player I would suggest Cleric for heals and lots of great spells.

[HastyPudding]

Paladins really are not very good. If you are planning to run together with just your wife I would suggest playing different classes to complement each other for a wider variety of abilities and roles.

I would suggest a Rogue so you can get traps, otherwise you may have problems in certain quests. Also you get a nice XP bonus for disabling traps and finding secret doors! If you enjoy Wizards a 18 Wiz/2 Rogue is a very good build and good as a Drow.

For the other player I would suggest Cleric for heals and lots of great spells.

Or a warforged wiz-rogue and a melee warforged. That wiz can act as a healer if necessary for the melee.

[Ralmeth]

Welcome back to DDO! Hmm...I recommend to ignore the naysayers. The issue is that a lot of people don't know how to properly build and play a Paladin, so they typically get a bad rap. Anyways, with the recent enhancement pass, you can now make a viable 28 point Paladin. Below is a new player friendly build you and/or your wife can use. It may be more interesting if one of you play a Paladin and the other plays something else that compliments a Paladin (ex. such as a caster, ranger/rogue, etc).

Ralmeth's Starter Paladin
This build is intended for newer players and isn't intended for Epic Elite, end-game play. With the acquisition of gear, and building up of the character it should do fine up through Epic Normal & Epic Hard quests at high levels. The idea is to start out fighting Two-Handed Fighting style as monsters are relatively easy to kill at low levels. In the early teens, the build should switch over primarily to S&B combat, for when mobs start to become more deadly. In general, the build divides it's attention between DPS and Defense as both are important. Strength is your primary stat, and Charisma is secondary.

Overview
Paladin 18 / Fighter 2
Human, Lawful Good
28 Point build

Starting Stats
Strength: 16 (10 points)
Dex: 10 (2 points)
Con: 14 (6 points)
Int: 12 (4 points)
Wis: 8 (0 points)
Char: 14 (6 points)

Stat Level Ups
Put all level ups into strength. If you'd like to even out a stat, maybe 1 point into something else

Feats
Human - Power Attack
1 - Cleave
3 - Two Handed Fighting
6 - Great Cleave
8, Fighter 1 - Improved Critical Slashing
9 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
12 - Shield Mastery
12, Fighter 2 - Bastard Sword
15 - Improved Shield Mastery
18 - Choice
21 - Overwhelming Critical
24 - Choice
26, epic destiny feat - Holy Strike
27 - Blinding Speed
28, epic destiny feat - Elusive Target

Feat Choices
Below are some feat choices to consider. These are left to higher levels, so hopefully by higher levels the player should get an idea of what they might be interested in.
-Improved Shield Bashing
-Greater Two Handed Fighting
-Bulwark of Defense
-Combat Expertise
-Quicken
-Empower Healing

Skills
-Max Concentration, Heal & Intimidate
-At low levels, put your extra point into Balance
-If you want UMD, buy a +2 int tome before level 7 and max out UMD
-With Fighter levels, max points into Jump. When you take your Paladin levels later on, use extra points to catch up on concentration, heal and intimidate

Enhancements
Knight of the Chalice - Key Enhancements
-Core 1-4
-Extra Turning (2 points)
-Extra Smites (all levels, maxed)
-Divine Might (maxed)
-Exhalted Smite (maxed)
-Divine Sacrifice 1
-Vigor of Life (at tiers 3 and 4)
-While leveling up, Sealed Life in Tier 5

Kensai - Key Enhancements
-Core 1, Heavy Blades
-Fighter Haste Boost (maxed)

Sacred Defender - Key Enhancements
-Core 1-5
-Extra Lay on Hands (maxed)
-Improved Sacred Defense, PRR & Hate (maxed)
-Sacred Armor Mastery (maxed)
-Sacred Shield Mastery (2 points)
-Greater Sacred Defense, Strength & Extra HP (Maxed)
-Swift Defense
-Reinforced Defense, Armor (maxed)
-At higher levels, if you are ready/willing to give up Sealed Life, pick up Harbored by Life (maxed) and Greater Sacred Defense, Con (maxed)

Human - Key Enhancements (if you have any spare points)
-Human Versatility, Damage Boost
-Improved Recovery 1

Key Paladin Spells
1st - Divine Favor
2nd - Resist Energy
4th - Zeal, Deathward

Epic Destiny Leveling
On your way to 28th level, you'll want to level up in and max out Unyielding Sentinel, Grandmaster of Flowers and Legendary Dreadnaught. You'll need Unyielding Sentinel maxed before level 26, so you can take Holy Strike. Otherwise, feel free to jump around. Eventually you will want to run in Legendary Dreadnaught most of the time.

Quick, Simple Tips to Combat
-Use Fighter Haste Boost against boss mobs
-Keep Divine Might running at all times
-Take and Use Divine Favor and later Zeal, and keep these running at all times
-Spam divine sacrifice in combat
-Save your Smites for dangerous targets, such as casters & named mobs
-Save intimidate for when the mobs are close and you want to grab aggro. When you hit intimidate, follow up with cleave and great cleave to grab aggro, or smites against a named mob.
-If/when you can afford it, carry some haste pots for when you don't have a haste

Quick, Simple Tips to Healing / Party Support
-Lay on Hands are best saved for emergencies, to save yourself or a fellow party member
-You can use healing wands as need to top off hit points. Though at low levels, a Cleric or FVS hireling work well.
-Carry restorative potions and wands: Lesser restore wands, remove curse pots, remove poison pots, remove blindness pots should all be on a hot bar. At higher levels, restoration and raise dead scrolls from House J.
-At high levels, learn to use Glorious Stand. When you get swamped and your hit points are dropping fast, hit GS, followed by a Lay on Hands before the timer runs out. It only lasts 30 seconds, so it's not infinite god mode, but it can provide enough of a reprieve to save the day

Anyways, I hope this helps

[Thalone]

If you don't have 32-point builds, paladins are not a great choice. They are multiple-attribute dependent: STR for combat (+DEX if TWF), CON for HPs, CHA to get save bonuses and to power your Smites. You can get around this somewhat by using Drow, but you lose the free Human bonus feat at this point, and do not get Human healing amplification enhancements (somewhat mitigated by the Paladin healing amp enhancements).

Paladins are also feat-starved. Power Attack, Cleave, Greater Cleave, and Improved Critical eat up four of seven (eight if human) heroic feat slots. If you go TWF, it doesn't leave much discretionary feat selection (THF feats are less important if you go that route, or S&B). Suggested feats if you have spare are Khopesh (TWF), Bastard Sword (THF/S&B), Sap (no-save single-target crowd control), Magical Training (gives Echoes of Power for slow but infinite self-healing through spell points). You can splash classes on a paladin for additional abilities: 1+ Fighter (feats), 2+ Rogue (traps/UMD/evasion, but this requires investment in INT to get your skill points up), 2+ Monk (feats/evasion) are common. Evasion is good on a high-save class like Paladin, but keep in mind it's effective only in robes or light armour.

That being said, they are a good class to come back with if you have nothing unlocked: high saves and hit points, and innate self-healing (SP, Cure wands in House J with no UMD check). Generally, putting build/level points into WIS is a waste. Paladins only need 14 WIS total to cast all their spells; you can achieve this with base 8 and a +6 item, or base 10 and an Owl's Wisdom potion.

For Paladin, forumgoers frequently recommend Junts' Paladin guide It has not been updated recently (as an example, Toughness is no longer considered a must-have feat), but much is still relevant.

I would also recommend that you both not play the same class. It's better to have a more balanced duo so you can bring different strengths. Will you be adventuring with hireling healers? If so, it might be beneficial to bring a less self-sufficient but high DPS class like Fighter (tactical melee feats can be a big help here) or Barbarian. Or one of you can play a Ranger (Manyshot for burst DPS, innate self-healing, paralysing arrows for trash crowd control if you go the ranged route). Or one of you could play a Pale Master Wizard with buffs (like Blur, Haste, Rage, GH), self-healing, crowd control, AoE damage via spells; although I would warn you that light damage from enemy casters can often one-shot an unwary PM, and inexperienced Wizards often have issues with managing their SP. A Bard can buff like a Wizard and can sing songs to improve everyone's weapon damage.