Watch out for the armchair advisors

[goldgolem]

A quote from another thread "A pure ranger can and does start one-shotting mobs at distance while leveling"

Now you can take that at face value or you can actually do what I do and compare damage output to actual mob HP. You know, like use facts and stuff

Lets take VON 4 elite for example

earth elemental 653HP
fire elemental 585 HP
wf 623 HP

As a lvl 11 pure ranger you do about 50 base damage a shot + effects. On crits you get 170ish + effects. If you were a new player, your numbers would be much lower

So yes, it is possible to occasionally one-shot something if you multishot and crit on all arrows, but this is rare. So if anyone feels that they can waltz through a dungeon one shotting stuff on a pure ranger, please post a vid

In my case, even if all 3 of my arrows critted on a many shot, I would do 510 + effects.

When the moons align and you have arrows of slaying, things die. But again, thats a one-off round in a multishot, not at all sustainable unless you play like my grandmother

The way people talk about this game on the forum and the way it is are two different things.

A first life ranger playing ranged would not come anywhere near one-shotting their way through a dungeon, but people constantly act like this is possible and expected

[Nestroy]

(...)

Lol? This actually is a very good quality post, @ OP. Very good and signed.

Thank god from time to time there are real gems here on the forum.

I think, with the AA bug / (bannable word) the sustained damage w/o crits could have reached some 100+ with crits in the upper 200s. So basically oneshooting something on normal difficulty was not too far of the shoot, as a figure of speech. On Elite it took 3-4 shoots to kill stuff. Now, with AA fixed, the damage would be in the 70ies sustainable (depending on bow and AA additions or elf archer additions). Not too bad either, but far from the oneshoot kills anybody want´s to brag about. Perhaps somebody found a new (bannable word) to either keep an ED active in heroic levels or there is again some AA bug making it possible to crank up the damage output on AA.

[Sam1313]

Talking about Arcane Archers in the HEROIC content. I'm not discussing Epic because ED changes everything.

Lets set one thing straight right now with those that Do Not play the Arcane Archer Class. THEY ARE NOT OVERPOWERED.

It may appear this way to you if you have ever ran with ANYONE who knows how to play them. The Monsters within the quests NEVER change where they are located and how MANY of them there is. So if your running in a quest with myself or another decent Archer they are going to know this and they are going to use Manyshots + Slaying arrow when they know they are going to turn the corner and encounter a large mob. 4 seconds later the 15 Ogre's are killed, Now when manyshots goes on timer and a little down the ways of the quest is another mob you wont see them disappear as quickly as the first mob. Why? because Manyshots is on cooldown and we are taking a double shot penalty. Now ok when we can just go "pew pew pew" I don't think that 25 points of damage per shot + whatever elemental is applied in the augment slot in the bow is over powered to some of the Melee guys 78 to 126 points of damage per swing of the blade do you?

Paralyzing arrows: Yes they are great in heroic content but if you have these imbued then your NOT going to do a lot of damage per hit because the Paralyzing arrows do no damage. They just Paralyze and that is it. So if I have these imbued I'm going to try to use them as a form of crowd control. I'm going to try to hit every single monster I can to hold it in place so the Monsters all don't gang up on my Melee guys and chop them down into little pork rinds. Paralyzing arrows in Epic content, Ha ha ha don't even bother imbuing them because they do nothing in Epic Elite.

Burst: A good Arcane Archer is going to know where the mass of the mobs are and they are going to "TIME" Manyshots to coincide with these encounters of the mobs within the quest. Manyshots + Haste + Action Boost Damage + Slaying Arrow is going to equal the amount of damage a Melee guy is going to do. Any other time while manyshots and action boost is on cool down the Archer is just doing 25pts of damage per shot + whatever elemental augment is in the bow UNLESS he scores a critical hit then the damage from that all depends on what type of longbow he is using. I can tell you from my own Archer that the critical hits are few and very far between. My guy seems to like to roll between 1-8 and hardly rolls over a 12 on the d20. Maybe once in a blue moon he will roll a 17 lol.

The game isn't easy by anymeans, All of you have just played it too much for too long and can run everything in your sleep. You have every trap and every mob memorized. Go ask a new player to solo anything past Korthos on Elite after they are done ask them was it easy.

Samyel 5th life AA Ranger Human. Cannith Server. +6 to bow damage, +6 to Bow Attack, +6 to elemental resistances, and small critters in my back pack. Currently level 16 with +4 tomes being applied.

[Gremmlynn]

A quote from another thread "A pure ranger can and does start one-shotting mobs at distance while leveling"

Now you can take that at face value or you can actually do what I do and compare damage output to actual mob HP. You know, like use facts and stuff

Lets take VON 4 elite for example

earth elemental 653HP
fire elemental 585 HP
wf 623 HP

As a lvl 11 pure ranger you do about 50 base damage a shot + effects. On crits you get 170ish + effects. If you were a new player, your numbers would be much lower

So yes, it is possible to occasionally one-shot something if you multishot and crit on all arrows, but this is rare. So if anyone feels that they can waltz through a dungeon one shotting stuff on a pure ranger, please post a vid

In my case, even if all 3 of my arrows critted on a many shot, I would do 510 + effects.

When the moons align and you have arrows of slaying, things die. But again, thats a one-off round in a multishot, not at all sustainable unless you play like my grandmother

The way people talk about this game on the forum and the way it is are two different things.

A first life ranger playing ranged would not come anywhere near one-shotting their way through a dungeon, but people constantly act like this is possible and expected

I miss your point as those numbers are pretty competitive to what a melee does at those levels. Which puts the archer ahead in a couple ways. First they don't have to close the range to the mobs or to the next mob when one is killed. Also they can't move to evade ranged attacks or avoid melee attacks or retain their DPS at anything even close to the same degree that a ranged character can. Which means their DPS starts earlier and is more sustainable as well as taking less incoming DPS to a melee.

I don't know if one-shotting one's way through a quest is what anyone expects, or why it even matters.

[FranOhmsford]

I don't know if one-shotting one's way through a quest is what anyone expects, or why it even matters.

Unfortunately people like to exaggerate on the forums and in chat. {I'm not immune to this either.}

Too many also act like everyone has every last piece of gear and every past life right off the bat!


What the OP is trying to do is calm down the expectations of both newbies reading these forums or in game chat AND the vets posting these exaggerations when they come across a Newbie!


The OP even stated that people in another thread he posted have made this statement about AAs one-shotting their way through Heroics so yes he does have a point!


Another thing people tend to forget is that this game was originally envisioned for cooperative group play and that virtually EVERY Build is far better in a group than Solo!

Take Pale Masters for Example - Solo you're constantly and I mean CONSTANTLY running out of SPs because there's so many mobs to kill and your SLAs are weak {no Metas}.
In a Group you can pick your targets!

Take Archers {even Monkchers} and Artis - In a Lvl 1-10 Group you look like a Demigod as you slaughter absolutely everything!
Solo you're constantly running backwards in circles seeing mobs hitting you in MELEE from 10 feet away and kiting sometimes up to a dozen Mobs! {Oh and constantly losing target for some reason as mobs swap places - It would be nice if the Devs could fix Hard Targeting so it doesn't switch to another mob!}.

Take Clerics and FvS who haven't got the Mana Pots to manage Maximised Heightened Blade Barriers throughout the quest - BB DOES NOT Kill Mobs in Elites!!!
In fact it barely touches them with so many having Evasion/Super High Reflex Saves!!!
In a Group that Cleric or FvS {Not counting WF with Greatswords!} can melee, throw a BB for others to kite mobs through and heal other party members.
On her own she's in serious trouble outside of Undead heavy quests!

[Raithe]

A quote from another thread "A pure ranger can and does start one-shotting mobs at distance while leveling"

Now you can take that at face value or you can actually do what I do and compare damage output to actual mob HP. You know, like use facts and stuff

Lets take VON 4 elite for example

earth elemental 653HP
fire elemental 585 HP
wf 623 HP

Ummm... here'es the actual full quote:

A pure ranger can and does start one-shotting mobs at distance while leveling. Not really that much difference between a solid ranger and a solid arty, both of which are massively overpowered in low-end content.

LOW-end content. I was talking about Water Works, Tangleroot, Kobold Assault, level 1 to 8 stuff. I don't consider VoN 4 elite, a level 11 quest, to be LOW-end. And you won't be critting much at all against elementals - casters are pretty much ALWAYS superior in taking them out.

As for your numbers, you aren't accounting for Sniper Shot which is available at level 6:

Level 11 Ranger, +1 Acid of Greater Bane (Crafted, min lvl 10) with +4 Holy Arrows (Crafted)

Non-crit Damage
Bonuses: +12 Str (+10, +1 Rage, +1 Ram's), +3 Elven Enhancements, +6 Past Life, +2 Ram's Might, +6 Deadly, +4 Enhancement, +4 Greater Bane = 37 damage
Base Weapon Damage: 2d8 (w/ Point Blank Shot) = 9 damage (max 16)
Weapon Effect Damage: Acid (1d6), Greater Bane (3d6), Holy (2d6), Force Ritual = 22 damage (max 37)
Favored Enemy Damage: 6 damage

Totals: 68 average, 74 vs favored enemies, 96 Maximum

Critical Damage:
Bonuses: 37 x 3 = 111 damage
Base Weapon Damage: 2d8 x 3 = 27 damage (max 48)
Weapon Effect Damage: 22 damage (max 37)
Seeker Damage: 6 x 3 = 18 damage
Favored Enemy Damage: 6 x 3 damage = 18 damage

Totals: 178 average, 196 vs favored enemies, 232 maximum

Sniper Shot Critical
Bonuses 37 x 5 = 185 damage
Base Weapon Damage: 4d8 x 5 = 90 damage (max 160)
Weapon Effect Damage: 22 damage (max 37)
Seeker Damage: 6 x 5 = 30 damage
Favored Enemy Damage: 6 x 5 = 30 damage

Totals: 327 average, 357 vs favored enemies, 442 maximum

30% Damage Boost Totals with Sniper Shot: 425 average, 464 vs favored enemies, 574 maximum

Not to mention there might be sneak attack involved, superior bard buffs, and incapacitated damage (+50%).
Sniper Shot is available every ten seconds and there is no sp cost for using it.

Just FYI.

[goldgolem]

So not enough to consistently one shot mobs then...

ps where are new players getting uber crafted bows and arrows from?

lol, and "+6 Past Life," so now you have to have 3 ranger past lives for your numbers to stack up?

[Oxarhamar]

So not enough to consistently one shot mobs then...

ps where are new players getting uber crafted bows and arrows from?

lol, and "+6 Past Life," so now you have to have 3 ranger past lives for your numbers to stack up?

And missing another +3 from 3x Monk PL

As well as Epic Past life toggles

[Raithe]

So not enough to consistently one shot mobs then...

A CR 7 Hobgoblin Guard in elite Tangleroot (level 6 quest) has approximate 100 to 120 hit points. He'll be one-shotted.

A CR 14 Troll in elite VoN 3 (level 11 quest) has approximately 370 to 430 hit points. He could, potentially be one-shotted on a damage boost, a doubleshot, or if the ranger had Precise Shot active and a bonus running.

ps where are new players getting uber crafted bows and arrows from?

Why would you expect new players to be running elite quests? Hopefully, they stay away from the insecure metagame pack as much as they can.

lol, and "+6 Past Life," so now you have to have 3 ranger past lives for your numbers to stack up?

Whatever. Replace the +6 Past Life with Guild Buffs: +2 damage, +6 on crits (before multiplier), +2 strength (+1 damage), +0.25W (+1 damage), and 2% Doubleshot

[Lonnbeimnech]

"A pure ranger can and does start one-shotting mobs at distance while leveling"

He didn't actually say while doing quests at-level on elite.

Maybe he is one of those people that does a hard streak, or maybe he does elite then hard then normal, and one shots mobs on the lower dif settings.

*shrugs*

[redoubt]

And missing another +3 from 3x Monk PL

As well as Epic Past life toggles

About the monk past life feat:

Its been a long time since I did my monk past lives and I could have sworn that the damage was to melee attacks only. Of course I wanted to check my memory, so I just pulled up the wiki and it doesn't say that...

Did this change at some point? i.e. did it used to be melee damage only and now it also applies to ranged?

Its great news for ranged characters if it does, it simply caught me by surprise.

[nokowi]

Talking about Arcane Archers in the HEROIC content. I'm not discussing Epic because ED changes everything.

Lets set one thing straight right now with those that Do Not play the Arcane Archer Class. THEY ARE NOT OVERPOWERED.

It may appear this way to you if you have ever ran with ANYONE who knows how to play them. The Monsters within the quests NEVER change where they are located and how MANY of them there is. So if your running in a quest with myself or another decent Archer they are going to know this and they are going to use Manyshots + Slaying arrow when they know they are going to turn the corner and encounter a large mob. 4 seconds later the 15 Ogre's are killed, Now when manyshots goes on timer and a little down the ways of the quest is another mob you wont see them disappear as quickly as the first mob. Why? because Manyshots is on cooldown and we are taking a double shot penalty. Now ok when we can just go "pew pew pew" I don't think that 25 points of damage per shot + whatever elemental is applied in the augment slot in the bow is over powered to some of the Melee guys 78 to 126 points of damage per swing of the blade do you?

Paralyzing arrows: Yes they are great in heroic content but if you have these imbued then your NOT going to do a lot of damage per hit because the Paralyzing arrows do no damage. They just Paralyze and that is it. So if I have these imbued I'm going to try to use them as a form of crowd control. I'm going to try to hit every single monster I can to hold it in place so the Monsters all don't gang up on my Melee guys and chop them down into little pork rinds. Paralyzing arrows in Epic content, Ha ha ha don't even bother imbuing them because they do nothing in Epic Elite.

Burst: A good Arcane Archer is going to know where the mass of the mobs are and they are going to "TIME" Manyshots to coincide with these encounters of the mobs within the quest. Manyshots + Haste + Action Boost Damage + Slaying Arrow is going to equal the amount of damage a Melee guy is going to do. Any other time while manyshots and action boost is on cool down the Archer is just doing 25pts of damage per shot + whatever elemental augment is in the bow UNLESS he scores a critical hit then the damage from that all depends on what type of longbow he is using. I can tell you from my own Archer that the critical hits are few and very far between. My guy seems to like to roll between 1-8 and hardly rolls over a 12 on the d20. Maybe once in a blue moon he will roll a 17 lol.

The game isn't easy by anymeans, All of you have just played it too much for too long and can run everything in your sleep. You have every trap and every mob memorized. Go ask a new player to solo anything past Korthos on Elite after they are done ask them was it easy.

Samyel 5th life AA Ranger Human. Cannith Server. +6 to bow damage, +6 to Bow Attack, +6 to elemental resistances, and small critters in my back pack. Currently level 16 with +4 tomes being applied.

My experience with 40+ heroic lives is that Heroic arcane archer is a perfectly fun and playable class. Arcane archers can be very effective in large open quests, or in quests with long channels (manyshot + improve precise shot). Definitely not OP in my experience running with a arcane archer for many of these lives, and trying out 3 lives myself. Half elf cleric dilettante is a great choice for heals/scroll use.

At epic levels, much of the shine disappears for pure arcane archer. I am unsure how much U23 will change epic AA.

[HastyPudding]

Eh, I recall being a pure ranger around level 6-18 or so and killing many types of mobs with a single sniper shot. And that was only with 3 ranger/1 artificer/1 rogue past lives.

People severely underestimate the damage a pure deepwood stalker can put out. I remember when my ranged character was still a pure ranger. He was running side by side with a lot of these monkchers and not falling behind in kills or damage. Pure ranger isn't the horror people make it out to be. I call it the typical multiclass bias and propaganda.

[Kawai]

Ummm... here'es the actual full quote: """"""""" Just FYI.

+1

[FestusHood]

I wanted to chime in here.

The first character i made in this game was an archer. That was almost three years ago.

That same character, now on his fourth life, is an archer again, the second archer i have made. I went for a standard monkcher build, because i wanted to try it out.

I am not someone who exaggerates on the forums, and i am very dubious of most of the damage numbers i read people bragging about on the forums, especially regarding heroic content.

My archer is now level 16. I am using the bow of sinew. He is maxed on wisdom, with a strength in the high 20's. I am running in water stance, i don't have master of forms stance yet.

I can't figure out why exactly, but i have seen single arrow crits from slayer arrows over 2000 damage. No, i'm not exaggerrating. Many of the crits are over 1000 damage. This coming from a base damage number that is typically about 35-40. I do have the epic past life colors of the queen, so that may be a factor, but the 2000+ damage itself is definitely from the arrow, not a proc.

The sniper shot is almost as good as the slayer arrow, especially for a manyshot volley.

Running prison of the planes last night, i literally evaporated several of the room bosses with a single manyshot volley, on elite. One shotting trash with manyshot volleys, as well as a good three arrow volley from 10k stars is pretty frequent.

[FestusHood]

Eh, I recall being a pure ranger around level 6-18 or so and killing many types of mobs with a single sniper shot. And that was only with 3 ranger/1 artificer/1 rogue past lives.

People severely underestimate the damage a pure deepwood stalker can put out. I remember when my ranged character was still a pure ranger. He was running side by side with a lot of these monkchers and not falling behind in kills or damage. Pure ranger isn't the horror people make it out to be. I call it the typical multiclass bias and propaganda.

Monkchers are better off while they are using 10k stars and the pure ranger is firing single arrows. However, i have no doubt that a pure ranger can do more damage per arrow, and therefore, have more powerful manyshots.

[Ykt]

A quote from another thread "A pure ranger can and does start one-shotting mobs at distance while leveling"

Someone, somewhere said something stupid, and you made a thread about it.

[HastyPudding]

Monkchers are better off while they are using 10k stars and the pure ranger is firing single arrows. However, i have no doubt that a pure ranger can do more damage per arrow, and therefore, have more powerful manyshots.

That's the difference: a monkcher is better at arrow procs, and while they're strong in fury, they can best utilize the shiradi's double rainbow stance due to the amount of arrows they can fire and how often. A pure DWS ranger, however, can make the most of a furyshot and excels at hard-hitting, single arrows, but can still function well with shiradi's double rainbow.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Buff up.

Hard target monster'

Turn on Manyshot.

Hit Slayer Arrow.

Roll some crits.

[Tilomere]

A lvl 3 monk 6 DWS ranger can sniper shot crit for over 200 per shuriken with shadowstar, more with sneak damage, up to 4x (shuriken expertise, ninja spy, double shot) for up to 800 damage attacks at level 9. Only 600 as a bard splash, but you have higher crit rate. One can use damage boosts to average out when you aren't in range for sneak hits.



By lvl 25 you are looking at sniper shot crits after pin/whistler of over 700 per shuriken with shadowstar, more with sneak damage, up to 6x with 10k stars. Even in shiradi. Only up to 3x as a bard splash, but you have a higher crit rate. So 2 shot, with first shot being CC. Bard gives 2 shot CC/CDG combo to stack on top of physical combo.



From level 6 ranger to around 18 you can 1 shot a lot of mobs with sniper shot. Bard or monk just makes it more probable. Adrenaline or blitz will allow you to continue to 2 shot but less frequently 20-28, at least until they nerf blitz by 60% ranged attack power. Then you are only left with fury dps builds until they redo ranged combat.