An introduction: you can call me Doctor Loot

[sirgog]

The issue with a hard rule of Raid > Named > Random is that it basically means that every chest is useless unless it has named loot.

DDO has almost always had something you really wanted to see in chests - +1 Vorpals at the 10 and 12 caps, +6 Con rings at the 14 cap, Wounding/Puncturing weapons and Holy/Silver weapons at the 16 cap, Superior Potency 6 kamas in the early days of the 20 cap, +3 tomes in the later days of the 20 cap, and Convalescent of Superior Parrying bracers, Primal of Superior Parrying shields, Obscenity weapons and Primal of Spell Proofing robes at the 25 cap.

This adds to the game as long as the items are rare enough that you don't get them all the time, but not so rare that they are never seen. The 14 cap worked well in that regard - people kept running Prison of the Planes for +6 stat rings and elite Litany for Superior Potency 6 items and for +2 tomes.

The present issue is that the best lootgen combinations are super-common, and they outclass everything that came before. It's not that they are 'just a little bit better', they utterly outclass older gear to the point that the Shadowfail loot changes effectively deleted all of the older raids and all of the 25 cap EE content.


I think that if item power level is measured from 1 to 10, 'random' loot should include items from 1 to 8. Named items from easier content should be from 2 to 9, and named items from difficult content 3 to 10. (I'm counting raid items as named items here - I see no reason to make a distinction based on group size, it should be based on content difficulty).

[Hafeal]

Dr. Lootz:

I would echo sirgog's sentiments.

I would also remind you of my plea for all BtC loot outside of Raids to be eliminated and made BtA.

The issue with a hard rule of Raid > Named > Random is that it basically means that every chest is useless unless it has named loot.

DDO has almost always had something you really wanted to see in chests - +1 Vorpals at the 10 and 12 caps, +6 Con rings at the 14 cap, Wounding/Puncturing weapons and Holy/Silver weapons at the 16 cap, Superior Potency 6 kamas in the early days of the 20 cap, +3 tomes in the later days of the 20 cap, and Convalescent of Superior Parrying bracers, Primal of Superior Parrying shields, Obscenity weapons and Primal of Spell Proofing robes at the 25 cap.

This adds to the game as long as the items are rare enough that you don't get them all the time, but not so rare that they are never seen. The 14 cap worked well in that regard - people kept running Prison of the Planes for +6 stat rings and elite Litany for Superior Potency 6 items and for +2 tomes.

The present issue is that the best lootgen combinations are super-common, and they outclass everything that came before. It's not that they are 'just a little bit better', they utterly outclass older gear to the point that the Shadowfail loot changes effectively deleted all of the older raids and all of the 25 cap EE content.


I think that if item power level is measured from 1 to 10, 'random' loot should include items from 1 to 8. Named items from easier content should be from 2 to 9, and named items from difficult content 3 to 10. (I'm counting raid items as named items here - I see no reason to make a distinction based on group size, it should be based on content difficulty).

[Singular]

I agree. I hope there will be some new crossbows and rune arms that are in the L27-30 range. Also, it would be nice if the rune arms had a red/orange/purple augment slot(s) to boost spell power since arties lost some spell power in the Enhancement pass. If you look at the L25 Epic Gianthold rune arms they have 2 slots for auggies, but no place for a red to boost spell power.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Rune_Arm

Couldn't agree more. It's annoying to have to slot spell power augments onto Needle. And the GH rune arms would be a lot more useful if they had a red augment - as it is, they're basically situational only.

Yes, the Jewelry is where the transgressions are the greatest. Ughh. Please nerf all the random ****, esp. all the super high seeker, deadly, and speedy stuff. If this came on named items also and not just lootgen it would be good, esp. if the named items had better stuff.

Do you really think it needs to be nerfed? I'm enjoying my deadly

As to heal amp, I'm not against it being on lootgen, but it should also be on more named items as it is now considered essential. All melees shouldn't feel compelled to choose the gloves for it, they should be able to wear other gloves without giving up heal amp entirely. This is where named items need some diversity.

Totally.

Meh, not totally against lootgen having situational value, and there should be enough utility in it for players to use it until they've farmed named. Categorizing it could be a decent idea. Nonetheless, if this is too difficult I'm personally fine with it remaining vendor trash, as the troll suggested. Name items are earned through dedicated questing whereas lootgen is gained through blind luck. I'm most glad to see the acknowledgement that almost everyone seems to think that named should be better in most cases, and that raid items should be best of all.

If random loot is always worse than named loot, never has a chance to be close or compare, then it's only function is to be vendored. That seems boring to me. I'd like rare, interesting random loot - the way MOTU random loot worked was fun.

In fairness, the 6% lore is universal spell lore, which still cannot be found much on lootgen stuff. Most of the lootgen and other items do have high values, but it is to a specific damage type, whereas the 6 is universal. Still, the above items are hard-earned and higher-level, and a base 9% upgradeable to 12% via comms would be better. It would still give the edge to specific damage lores while making the harder to get arcane lore and bit more powerful.

Yeah. But in a min/max game, who relies upon universal lore? Maybe it's b/c I play a sorc that I specialize my lore items.

The biggest problem with Twilight is that lore cannot be specialized or upgraded on it, making random rods and scepters better choices.

[RobbinB]

A: about roman numerals:

1. I find them very helpful. blah blah IV is not as good as blah blah VII
2. I find it a little boring to just number them that way....

I don't have any idea what a solution would be.

The solution is to axe the new system and go back and expand on the old system, which they had started to do. So frost vs icy burst vs icy blast as a damage example; cursespewing vs improved cursespewing vs greater cursespewing as another example. Make unique prefixes and suffixes by combining one or two interesting prefixes/suffixes and make these show up more rarely, eg. Deset sand = slicing winds + impr roaring / slicing / flaming burst or blast.

The new system with Roman numerals is just plain terrible, especially with respect to damage effects.

[Jasparion]

The issue with a hard rule of Raid > Named > Random is that it basically means that every chest is useless unless it has named loot.

If the alternative is that random loot is better than named and raid loot then I am 100% okay with this. Random loot should be what you use before you can get your named loot. Named loot is what you use before you can get your raid loot. Its easy to get random loot (you dont even need to enter a dungeon for most of it). It takes a bit of effort to get named loot. It takes a lot of effort to get raid loot.

[Codect]

Honestly I'd like to go back to the old magic system, pre-spellpower.

There needs to be more heal amp in the game. New augments?

I'd like you to develop a system to bring old epics back into contention. So many items that used to be hard to get but amazing are now completely irrelevant, collecting dust. Adding in a way to upgrade them to be in line with the higher level cap would be great, it would even add more endgame content if you tied it in with the packs they originally come from.. maybe tweak epic elite on those quests to be in line with current level cap quests and add "greater seal/scroll/shard of xxx" to them. With a scroll trade mechanic of course (any 3 for a specified 1 at trader).

[Scraap]

The issue with a hard rule of Raid > Named > Random is that it basically means that every chest is useless unless it has named loot.

DDO has almost always had something you really wanted to see in chests - +1 Vorpals at the 10 and 12 caps, +6 Con rings at the 14 cap, Wounding/Puncturing weapons and Holy/Silver weapons at the 16 cap, Superior Potency 6 kamas in the early days of the 20 cap, +3 tomes in the later days of the 20 cap, and Convalescent of Superior Parrying bracers, Primal of Superior Parrying shields, Obscenity weapons and Primal of Spell Proofing robes at the 25 cap.

This adds to the game as long as the items are rare enough that you don't get them all the time, but not so rare that they are never seen. The 14 cap worked well in that regard - people kept running Prison of the Planes for +6 stat rings and elite Litany for Superior Potency 6 items and for +2 tomes.

The present issue is that the best lootgen combinations are super-common, and they outclass everything that came before. It's not that they are 'just a little bit better', they utterly outclass older gear to the point that the Shadowfail loot changes effectively deleted all of the older raids and all of the 25 cap EE content.


I think that if item power level is measured from 1 to 10, 'random' loot should include items from 1 to 8. Named items from easier content should be from 2 to 9, and named items from difficult content 3 to 10. (I'm counting raid items as named items here - I see no reason to make a distinction based on group size, it should be based on content difficulty).

I would tend to agree that both frequency and amplitude need to be taken into account (Still waiting to hear what 'appropriate level range' is btw Doc).

I would however disagree on your last point, since it also influences bind status, and the inherent item-sinks that go with it when it comes to evaluating long term frequency.

Unbound to unbound I can see on par within 3 levels of each other up or down situationally. Same goes with BTCoA to a lesser degree. Both eventually reach a shelf-life where someone takes them out of circulation. The former through making them able to stop taking perma-damage but binding them, the latter through folks simply not re-posting them on the shard house.

BTA could perhaps hover around 2 levels difference vs unbound, since while they aren't going to flood the market, they do still have the merit of bringing a new alt, or TR shifting through that range 'up to speed'.

Straight BTC I'd peg at a minimum of a 4 level effectiveness bump vs unbound since those need to be acquired on a per-toon basis vs just dropping by your local auctionhouse of choice. 6-8 if it requires multiple BTC ingredients.

[Ungood]

The issue with a hard rule of Raid > Named > Random is that it basically means that every chest is useless unless it has named loot.

This is not true at all.

I already posted this before on this topic but given what you have just said, I figured I should post this again, just because: Original Post can be Found Here

I would like to take a moment to expound on a few things here.

Often (and I mean pretty much everyone I know in game and mos of the people on this forum) follow the mind set of:

Raid > Named > Loot-Gen

But really, it's not quite as simple as that, because even at the start of the F2P game, Loot-gen still had it's gems, and when Cannith Crafting went live, many people showed what "Stars aligned" random-loot gen could do, and it was not lacking in the least.

But see, loot gen is supposed to be "mostly junk, make-do, with the random rare combo that works wonders", that is what makes it work so well. I admit I liked the multi-effect of Loot-gen, like "Of the Tryant" "Nights Grasp" and the like, some because they followed the theme here in DDO, IE: The Tyrant from Orchard , Nights Grasp from DQ, etc.

It was nifty, and they should have been much rarer then they were in game, and those should have been added to the crafting tables.

Adding them to the crafting tables alone would have changed the game greatly.

The revision to Random-loot, IMO, was a bad move, Random loot did not need to be changed, and it could have been removed from the epic content completely because of the way the com system worked, in short time, anyone could have had a decent named epic weapon and armor, there was pretty much no need for Loot-gen in Evening Star at all, and if they simply added a comm turn in to Ebberon to replace the shard/seal/scroll system, that would have totally fixed all the loot issues at the end game.

So really, the Loot revision was a waste of time, effort, and all it accomplished was annoyed a great deal of players.

But getting back to my main point. Loot Progression:

Raid > Named > Loot-Gen.

To explain this, first you would need to start with a scale, so lets use the simple scale of 1 - 10. 1 being the worst, with 10 being the best. But this is not a scale in raw power, but in Usefulness. How well designed and fitting is this weapon/item.

Loot Gen should scale around a: 1 - 8

Now, what does that mean. Well first off, it's a large gap, and that is because Loot-gen should be volatile, random, from pretty much the worst items in the game to the near the best:

For example: The Mind Jobs like: Axiomatic of True Chaos, Anarchistic Handwraps of Absolute Chaos, Underwater action RR: Warforged, and the like kind of items, these catastrophically bad combos are what make loot-gen, well.. Loot-gen.

On the flip side you have stars-aligned: Where you pull a Holy Silver Outsider bane, or Adamitite of smiting. yes, very rare combos, but when you get them, they are great, they rival anything else in the game, which is again, this random nature of Loot-gen working for you.

This polar extremes of Loot-gen, are what make it, well, what it is. But all in all, Loot-gen should often fall in the middle ground, with means most loot gen should be around a 4 or 5 on the loot Scale, not great, but a serviceable piece of gear none the less.

Named Items Should fall around: 4 - 8

Notice, they start much higher then loot gen, so that means they should be devoid of the worst combos, but that should be a product of being hand designed, but even with that personal touch, there are simply going to be some poor combos, or things that just don't work as well as we would like to think, or just in some cases they don't compete well against what loot-gen/other named items could give within a close level range.

Because named items are hand crafted, tho, this more an issue with how it synergies with existing things then anything else. Case in point, at one time, the only helm worth taking out of orchard was the Minos, because it's combo of stats netted it around a 8 in the usefulness level, where all the other hats, while decent, were around 4 - 6, you could get the same effects on loot gen if you looked hard enough, or in some cases, they just fell short of what the Minos provided.

However, on average Named items would be around a 5-6, slightly better overall then Loot gen, but not massively so, but just enough to make them the constantly more appealing option.

Raid Gear Should fall around a 5 - 9:

Like Named Items, raid gear is hand crafted, planned, and then locked away behind a tiny drop rate and a large scale quest. Because of this, raid gear had this elevated placement as being "What everyone should be striving for", the "end game" gear in most ways.

While sure, there are simply some items that are not that great even in the raid gear list, either because they are just not grand items, like crossbows, or light hammers or the such, other times, they are simply odd combos that don't seem to work that well in function, or in some cases, when pit against what could be acquired from the same raid, or similar raids, it simply does not measure up. In either case, there are lows and highs in the raid gear list.

On average the gear from a raid should fall around a 6-7, better then all the the top end loot gen, better then most of the named, worth going after, but no super powerfully so.

So I guess now the question is, what is a - 10?

a 10 should it's own monster. When I started to play, in 2009, the 10, was the "epic" items, these were augmented named items that brought them to the next level.

In most games the 10 is "what is not made yet" but in DDO, it was hidden behind several layers of raids and quests, like collecting a dozen named items, or more, was what the 10 was.

I proposed a new 10, for the future of DDO. and I think it is about time something like this was put in, to replace the old epic grind that kept people looking/questing for that "little bit more" and that is what the 10 symbolizes, that "little bit more" that final piece.

Just hoped to expand a bit on this idea of what the scale really was for how loot should work, there is overlap, and overlap is good, as long as it is controlled, as long as it is not situations where something that should not be getting out classed is getting overshadowed.

Good Luck here DrLoot.

[Mithis]

Happy Friday, everyone. I’d like to introduce myself as a bit of a new dev face on the forums. First, it’s about time I quit lurking, and second, I’m putting on an additional hat on the DDO team. What hat is that? In a word: loot. I’m here to listen to you and to keep my eyes on the big picture. Yes, that includes avoiding Ghostbane-situations.

So in the name of listening rather than blathering on and on, I’d like to ask you all a few questions as a sort of pulse-check on the state of loot. Go on and fill up the thread – I’ll check back in after the weekend (and a bit today, as schedule permits), with head-nods, follow-up questions, and answers where necessary.

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?
- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?
- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

(In the future, I’m planning some similar question sessions about named loot and named loot systems, BTW.)

1. Random loot to me is just too limiting. I would like to see a loosening of the restrictions on what effects can appear on a piece of equipment. I don't want to see any effect in any slot but adding a low chance of non standard effects would liven things up a bit.

2. Now I know I am probably one of two people who have a thrower build but throwing weapons need some serious love. The only real options from level 10 on are: Crafted, the Morningstar and Spelltouched. Not many people have high level crafters, the Morningstar is good but limited in use and spell touched are random...and thus it is frustratingly difficult to get a decent one.

3. I pretty much only slot random loot with: deadly, speed and high stat bonuses. Preferably with an augment slot.

[LadyKoneko]

First thanks for coming in like a bang.

First I'd like to is diversity.. please even the vendors won't take ghostbane any more.

Scaling.. I really like the idea of the 'same' prefix/suffix getting better at higher levels. Only thing I would add would make the AH searchable for these. Example a few months ago you could search for minute seeing and without having to mouse over till which versions (+1 +5, +13 etc).

Another feature that would be nice would be, being able AT A GLACE till if the item has a slot. Like a small red dot for a red augement, a green dot for green augments.. etc.

Customization is great.. slots allow us to customize the item to the toon/style of play. Green steel/Alchemical/etc allowed this..(pleade god no new mats). Random effects Suck ***. Especially with already rare named loot. Please understand the difference.

[Livmo]

You only pulled those two weapons, and quite crappy weapons at that, and you want to compare them to raid gear? Gosh, while it;s bad enough that loot gen can surpass raid gear, you want every freaking piece of it to be better?

Not surprised those bracers suck, no slot, nothing, come back and talk when you pull something not so half-backed. Like i said before, it's bad enough that loot-gen can beat raid/named gear in close level ranges, you are prancing off that every bit of loot-gen needs to do it..

You embarrass yourself with this post Ungood. The loot gen has a slot. I did not make any statements of fact. I said it seems...

[sirgog]

If the alternative is that random loot is better than named and raid loot then I am 100% okay with this. Random loot should be what you use before you can get your named loot. Named loot is what you use before you can get your raid loot. Its easy to get random loot (you dont even need to enter a dungeon for most of it). It takes a bit of effort to get named loot. It takes a lot of effort to get raid loot.

The game should not reward 'effort' but should reward achievement.

Running Waterworks back to back 30 times on a level 27 character is effort. It is rightly completely ignored by all of the game's reward systems. You will get no XP, no relevant loot to your character - all you will get is the odd consumable. On the flip side, running EE Fall of Truth is a serious achievement for most guilds, and running EH Fall of Truth is an achievement for most PUGs. Both of those should be rewarded, despite being considerably less 'effot' than grinding through Waterworks dozens of time.

Now let's consider Wisdom items. You could run the absolutely trivial EN or EH VON6 chasing a Wisdom item, and get (after too many runs) a +7 Wisdom helm, the Epic Helm of the Mroranon. Or, you could run something that is much more of an achievement - Heroic Elite Bastion of Power or End of the Road - and possibly loot a random lootgen +7 Wis item there.

I feel the person running Elite Bastion on their level 21 character is much more deserving of recognition for their achievement than a person running VON6, especially on EN (which pretty much any twelve people can do even if six of them AFK the whole raid and one falls off the side because they have been drinking too much). Yet the latter has 'raid loot'.

Where raids are difficult enough to remain engaging to high level players, they should have compelling loot. But this exact same statement should apply to six-person content too. Let's kill off the WOW idea of 'raiding is both the hardest and most rewarding PVE content', and go to something more sensible - the hardest PVE content has the best rewards, and sometimes that will be raids, other times it will be 6-player content.


Bind status should also be uncoupled from raid/6-person status and instead the question should be asked "Is this item meant to be exclusive?". If yes - the item should be BtAoA or more restrictive. If no, it should be BtAoE or BtCoE so that the economy doesn't get flooded with it.

[Rhysem]

Biggest problems: Good loot dilution by too many items splitting bonuses. In some other MMOs, having an item with split stats, where the total of the stats is higher than a 'pure' stat item is okay, since everything stacks. In DDO where pretty much nothing stacks, having an item with split stats is usually a waste of a slot -- at least until you get to high enough item levels that one (or both) stats are maxed out.

As examples: a +2 int +7 search item (ML: 9) is pretty worthless compared to a clever +5 item (ML: 9) or +11 search item (ML: 9). A +6 int +5 search has some utility, and a +6 int +13 or +15 search item is ... frankly pretty spiffy (and quite possibly epic-only, though I think with masterful II it'd be heroic leveled).

With the restricted buffs per slot, there's already plenty of gear shuffling game to play, the addition of diluted loot is just an annoyance.


Underserved: Worthwhile loot-gen throwers are rarer than hens teeth. True, most don't really get much use, but at least throwing stars for monks could use a look. There's what, 3 named and 2 crafted and that's it? I realize they aren't "primary" weapons, but they are all monks come with native, so a brief pass would be nice. While you're at it, the stacks of 20 non-returning throwing weapons can just go.


Non-named: Res +4 MC goggles, deadly 5 cursed helm, neck of acc 5, +5 str belt, fort 100% boots, speed 5 gloves, wis +4 ring. Hey, I'm 10. What do you expect?

[Hadesborne]

My major problem is that on my capped Pally, who is pretty much geared to the max, I have recently swapped out 5 amazing named raid loot items and put in 5 ridiculously amazing random loot items that I purchased for a grand total of 200k pp in the AH.
to the list:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Lenses_of_the_Woodsman for Deadly 8 goggles of Intimidate 13
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Ring_of...eaver_Prophecy EH(ml24) for Wise 9 ring of Accuracy 9
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Girdle_of_Giants%27_Brawn Epic(ml23) for Ogre Power 9 belt of False Life 40 w/ a colorless slot
http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Charged_Gauntlets w/ 30 hps in yellow slot to Shockproof +35 Gloves of Seeking 8 with a yellow slot
http://ddowiki.com/page/Band_of_Siberys with insightful charisma +2 added to Charisma 9 ring of Resistance 9

Ok, so maybe 2 or 3 of those items aren't end game items but look at the drastic increases in power here. That kind of increase should NEVER be obtained by swapping out end-game or near-to-end-game items with random loot. I would have expected to have to run 5-10 or more raids for an upgrade like that for each slot. Not anymore though, I just walked to the AH and blew 200k.

You wanted to know what is broken? Stop making us too happy. We WANT to be a little miserable and experience toil and strife and hardship in order to get the much needed upgrades for our build. That makes the sense of accomplishment for getting upgrades that much better. That is how you keep a game interesting.

I played EQ for 7 years and in those 7 years I raided my butt off(60+ people raids, mind you), ruining two relationships. But MAN, it was fun, all because I worked hard for the 10 hp here and 10 sp there more than I had previously. As soon as they started throwing 800+ hp on items you could get soloing/6-maning the game went to ****. Please don't let this happen. Please put those meaningful upgrades on raid/end game named loot and make the difference between EH and EE loot the same vast difference in stats as it takes to complete at that level.

NEVER should I be swapping out named raid loot for random loot that I got in the same quest.

That being said, there are a few stats that I think need help.
Healing amp...we need more options. How about new EE gear/raid loot with better healing amp effects and return some of the small bonuses to random loot.
Slicing etc lines...why not on raid loot and high end loot or even better augs with these additions that drop in raids/EE
Intimidation...more named loot with this effect please.
Perform...throw the bards a bone here man (on meaningful named loot)
Incite...it's getting harder and harder to keep agro off all these great cleaving/master's blitzing(which is a line that needs nerfing, 1500 hp hits over and over? come on) dps classes out there. Put it on Named loot built for the classes/builds that are intimidating (yes, TANKS)
Bane items, why not throw a few more options for bane items or even augs for these effects.
Also, where are my clickies? Really, no new named clickies? Please put more cool clicky effects for named loot that you might want to make situational and no TOOO good, throw a decent clicky on there, POW now it's a decently sought after item.
Profane bonuses on new named items please.
Also, make true seeing stop blindness. Why the hell would anyone with true seeing be blinded EVER?
How about Secret Door Detection with varying levels, since you made the skill check vary.
Armor Piercing...10% doesn't cut it anymore.
On named loot how about some nice combo stats(ie chrono)

Also find something for us to do with our shards/seals/scrolls if you aren't going to upgrade the old epic gear. Give us an option to turn the 4 items in for say a decent augment that coincides with the purpose of that loot(tanking, dps, spellcasting, healing, traps etc) or maybe a new items slot (HELLO EARRINGS ANYONE, good lord) with these small but meaningful upgrades. and make it scale for the difficulty of obtaining these 4 items. And make these (EARRINGS) have multiple small boost stats.

But the REAL issue:
+9/+10 stats random items need help, Someone needs to help them to stop dropping on random items. These Uber stats are better placed on end game named loot please take them off the random loot tables. you want +7 or so sitting there at the pinnacle of random ****, maybe even some +8 for EE random **** MAYBE(meaning roll 100 out of 100 on your loot roll). Leave +9/10 or higher for the end game named. My lower level chars are cringing as I mention it but FACE IT, it's the right thing to do.

Thanks for your time.
Palantin of Kyber
Lvl 28 Paladin

[Ungood]

You embarrass yourself with this post Ungood. The loot gen has a slot. I did not make any statements of fact. I said it seems...

You know what I don't see in this loot gen.. That's right, slots. There are no slots shown in this loot gen at all, not even masterful craftsmanship either, so, All you did was compare two pretty shoddy, low end loot gen junk weapons, and when I say junk weapons, I mean these are junk for Loot-gen weapons, there are much better Loot-gen combos out there, and then you seemed to try and draw some comparison between these two trash items to what was once the best bastard sword in the game.

So, what am I left with at this point? Either your statement is, you have no idea what you are posting, looting, or even how to draw any kind of apt comparison or you have no idea what decent loot-gen even is.

Edit: Ah I just noticed the colorless slot on the bracers (with no augment in it mind you), right, poor things, you could not even get a yellow, or green slot? But none the less, they did have a slot, my bad, it does not make them anything less then vendor junk tho, and by vendor junk, I mean vendor junk in comparison to other available loot gen.

[Livmo]

You know what I don't see in this loot gen.. That's right, slots. There are no slots shown in this loot gen at all, not even masterful craftsmanship either, so, All you did was compare two pretty shoddy, low end loot gen junk weapons, and when I say junk weapons, I mean these are junk for Loot-gen weapons, there are much better Loot-gen combos out there, and then you seemed to try and draw some comparison between these two trash items to what was once the best bastard sword in the game.

So, what am I left with at this point? Either your statement is, you have no idea what you are posting, looting, or even how to draw any kind of apt comparison or you have no idea what decent loot-gen even is.

But, yah, someone was embarrassed, but it wasn't me.

TY I was refering to the bracers in the post. No worries, I'm not going to argue with you. I learned a long time ago not to argue with a fool, because often times people cannot tell the difference.

[Ungood]

TY I was refering to the bracers in the post. No worries, I'm not going to argue with you. I learned a long time ago not to argue with a fool, because often times people cannot tell the difference.

As I see it, you either had a point you were trying to make, or you were just trying to gander attention, In my feelings on the matter, I pretty much took you for the latter, and your antics have not shown you to have any point, so, you're entire reason for posting was just to draw attention to yourself for some reason, well, I guess you got what you wanted, which was some attention.

Pity you did not have a point worth supporting with the attention you got.

Good day sir.

[FlaviusMaximus]

...I even prefer Ghost Touch of Undead Bane.

Um...why?

Ghostbane is ghost touch and undead bane combined into one weapon effect. There's no way I can look at that and think it's not better than ghost touch of undead bane.

Ghostbane is a good weapon effect at low to mid levels. The problem isn't with the weapon effect itself. The problem is that a lot of the old weapon abilities disappeared and there seems to be way too many ghostbane weapons out there as a result of the borked loot tables. It's also the kind of weapon effect that doesn't need to be on weapons with a minimum level higher than 14. Keep it around, but don't put it in any high heroic or epic loot tables.

DDO has almost always had something you really wanted to see in chests...Obscenity weapons.

I was obsessed with trying to get Obscenity weapons for almost a year after they came out. Now that the life drain effect has been changed from what it has been in the recent past, this weapon ability does not need to be reintroduced into the loot tables. It's a shame.

...Khopesh! There are no great named epic khopesh. There are a lot of "oh, I guess it's better than random loot." Currently the highest damage dealing khopesh is the Drow Weapon Master. We need some raid loot named khopeshes....

Enjoy the break from khopeshes. They dominated TWF for far too long.

[Saravis]

Um...why?

Ghostbane is ghost touch and undead bane combined into one weapon effect. There's no way I can look at that and think it's not better than ghost touch of undead bane.

Ghostbane is a good weapon effect at low to mid levels. The problem isn't with the weapon effect itself. The problem is that a lot of the old weapon abilities disappeared and there seems to be way too many ghostbane weapons out there as a result of the borked loot tables. It's also the kind of weapon effect that doesn't need to be on weapons with a minimum level higher than 14. Keep it around, but don't put it in any high heroic or epic loot tables.

Ghostbane loses the bane enhancement bonus.



The level 8 is superior and not just because its a level 8 weapon. With the addition of +1 enhancement on the lvl 6 weapon it becomes level 8, but is only +3 against undead. The level 8 on the other hand is +5 against undead, as well as the bane damage is 3d6 vs. only 2d4 on the lvl 6. While the advantage of freeing up the prefix can be nice, just comparing ghost touch of undead bane vs. ghostbane shows that the former is superior for its level.

[Livmo]

You pulled out one of the (the?) most useful Eveningstar sets, and a fairly junk set of bracers ;-)

Ideally those named items would be something you put on at their ML and wear for a few levels - so yes, they should be useful compared to higher ML items if you're trying to do the same thing. If named items (those ML20) are only good in your mind until you get to ML21, I think that's another variance.

I would like named stuff to last a few levels at least, but I'm not sure what the benchmark is? I think it should be 5 levels, but maybe that expectation is high? I'm still wearing that set, because I'm lazy and it still works for me at L25.