The Crimson Bolt - A selfhealing metal stick build

[Rull]

13 rogue / 4 paladin / 3 monk
Bladeforged

*Feats:
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Improved Critical
Adept of Form
Master of Form
Quicken
Toughness (M)
Two-handed Fighting (M)
Improved Evasion (R)
Opportunist (R)
Overwhelming Critical (E)
Epic Toughness (E)
Blinding Speed (E27)


*Points: (36)
18 STR (to get overwhelming with a +5 tome)
6 DEX
18 CON
8 INT
6 WIS
16 CHA +6 lvlup (or if you like you can put the levelups in STR)


*Gear:
Sireth
Recon 136 slotted in sireth until a good recon item is released (recon 90 from ring of master artifice is good but not enough recon)
probably black dragon armor
black dragon helm also
torc to fuel reconstructs. if epic you don't need to slot archmagi.


*Destiny:
Fury of the wild
twist: Dance of Flowers (1)
twist: +6 Seeker (3)
twist: 15% fortbypass (3)

Alternatively, if you are not using sireth:
Dreadnought (for pulverizer)
twist: Dance of Flowers (1)
twist: Sense Weakness (4)
twist: Brace for Impact (1)


*Stance:
Wind stance if you don't have haste, earth stance if you do.


*Enhancements:
Racial (18)
Improved Fortification (1)
3x Mechanist (6)
3x Communion of Scribing (6)
1x Improved Power Attack (2)
Power of the Forge (1)
Weapon Attachment (1)
Communion of Handling (1)


Thief-Acrobat (33)
Staff control (1)
3x Thief Acrobatics (3)
Staff Training I (2)
Staff Training II (2)
Staff Training III (2)
Staff Training IV (2)
3x Haste Boost (6)
3x Quick Strike (6)
2x Subtelty (2)
1x Strength +1 (2)
3x No Mercy (3)
Staff Specialization (2)


Henshin Mystic (7)
Base (1)
Way of the Tortoise (2)
Staff Training I (2)
Staff Training II (2)


Knight of the Chalice (12)
Fiendslayer (1)
3x Extra turn (3)
Extra smite (1)
3x Divine Might (6)
Courage of Heaven (1)


Ninja Spy (7)
Base (1)
Sneak Attack Training (2)
2x Acrobatic (2)
Sneak Attack Training II (2)


Assassin (3)
Base (1)
Sneak Attack Training (2)

[Fennario]

Hard to take monk feats and enhancements with no monk levels. I'm guessing those 3 fighter levels should be monk.

[Rull]

Haha, of course yes

[hi_sa1nt]

Haha, of course yes

Why Bladeforge for this build? You don't give any reason in your OP saying besides self healing... which is a good reason, but the sole reason why you chose BF?

Interesting build though.

If you were to substitute the 4 levels of paly and put them somewhere else, what would they be?

[Rull]

Why Bladeforge for this build? You don't give any reason in your OP saying besides self healing... which is a good reason, but the sole reason why you chose BF?Interesting build though.If you were to substitute the 4 levels of paly and put them somewhere else, what would they be?

Well yes selfhealing. Plus Power of the Forge is as fine an ability as other races offer. And the weapon attachment +0.5W +5 seeker is decent damage as well.

But the whole point of this build is that it is probably the highest dps of all selfhealing builds, more than bards, druids, battleclerics, fvs, sorc- or wizard-fighter splits or most important artificers (juggernaut style) can dish out.
Of course this is a certain definition of selfhealing, i don't consider a 12second cocoon and/or jumping around with heal scrolls solid selfhealing, while 6 second reconstuct should be sufficient, (though not as good as druid or cleric).

So uhm, you could replace 4 paladin with 1 wizard, going 16/3/1 or 13/6/1.
Alternatively, you could take 4 fighter and sacrifice a twist to get an SP pool.
But I don't think either would be better than the CHA to saves and the CHA to strenght bonusses that paladin offers.

[Skavenaps]

Well yes selfhealing. Plus Power of the Forge is as fine an ability as other races offer. And the weapon attachment +0.5W +5 seeker is decent damage as well.But the whole point of this build is that it is probably the highest dps of all selfhealing builds, more than bards, druids, battleclerics, fvs, sorc- or wizard-fighter splits or most important artificers (juggernaut style) can dish out. Of course this is a certain definition of selfhealing, i don't consider a 12second cocoon and/or jumping around with heal scrolls solid selfhealing, while 6 second reconstuct should be sufficient, (though not as good as druid or cleric).So uhm, you could replace 4 paladin with 1 wizard, going 16/3/1 or 13/6/1.Alternatively, you could take 4 fighter and sacrifice a twist to get an SP pool.But I don't think either would be better than the CHA to saves and the CHA to strenght bonusses that paladin offers.

im building a BF monk12/5wiz/rogue3, No cha to saves but 25% incor and non scroll displacement helps a lot on survival. Less SA and worst saves than yours.

[Kingault]

Why not go for Exalted Smite? Looks pretty good.

[Rull]

Why not go for Exalted Smite? Looks pretty good.

Hm, let's calculate the tier3. Every 90 seconds you do 1 attack with +2 range & +2multiplier.
Say you base hit for 81. Since we are considering smites it hits for 19 more, and let's assume 20 seeker Your regular crit profile with sireth is 13-18x3, 19-20x5.
So on 1-10 nothing happens, on a 11-12 this adds 500dmg, on 13-18 it adds 240 and on 19-20 also 240.
0-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-360-360-360-360-360-360-600-600
turns into
0-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-600-600-600-600-600-600-600-600-840-840

This adds up to 146 mor dmg average, compared to a regular smite.
Now you can use this once every 90 seconds (the starting number of smites is almost neglible), so 1.6 dph (fortification reduces).
I'd say not worth 6 AP in this AP-starved build. If I somehow had AP to spare I'd rather add 6 more in the assassin tree.

(note that tier3 is exponentially better than tier1 or 2, so taking just them is not going to help)

However, it is close enough; had it been 3 AP instead of 6 it would have been a good investment. So I thank you for suggesting it, I hadn't looked at it at all

[Choopak]

Well yes selfhealing. Plus Power of the Forge is as fine an ability as other races offer. And the weapon attachment +0.5W +5 seeker is decent damage as well.

But the whole point of this build is that it is probably the highest dps of all selfhealing builds, more than bards, druids, battleclerics, fvs, sorc- or wizard-fighter splits or most important artificers (juggernaut style) can dish out.
Of course this is a certain definition of selfhealing, i don't consider a 12second cocoon and/or jumping around with heal scrolls solid selfhealing, while 6 second reconstuct should be sufficient, (though not as good as druid or cleric).

So uhm, you could replace 4 paladin with 1 wizard, going 16/3/1 or 13/6/1.
Alternatively, you could take 4 fighter and sacrifice a twist to get an SP pool.
But I don't think either would be better than the CHA to saves and the CHA to strenght bonusses that paladin offers.

I love the bladeforged! but not sure your build qualify as: the best DPS, a fighter/pally/wizard 12/6/2 would probably do more, have more HP, saves, smites and a full BaB, and bladesworn transformation for even more damage. Eldrith knight would add up more damage on cleave and some very nice defensive abilities on mage armor/ shield SLA. And a 12/6/2 monk would also work, and you can take enhancement in kensai to be centered with any weapons...

[Rull]

I love the bladeforged! but not sure your build qualify as: the best DPS, a fighter/pally/wizard 12/6/2 would probably do more, have more HP, saves, smites and a full BaB, and bladesworn transformation for even more damage. Eldrith knight would add up more damage on cleave and some very nice defensive abilities on mage armor/ shield SLA. And a 12/6/2 monk would also work, and you can take enhancement in kensai to be centered with any weapons...

Well, it's what the point of the build is. Whether or not it succeeds in this, I'm curious to find out.
I was just defending the choice of bladeforged against old non-bladeforged selfhealing builds, but of course there will be other bladeforged contenders in this department. Centered-ESoS 12fighter/paladin/monks as obvious contender, and others as well... but don't underestimate a Sireth with upgraded attack speed.

One thing I did not take into account, does the bladesworn transformation not prevent the reconstruct SLA?

-Rull

[Rull]

Fun Fact:

crit profile:
1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/3/3/3/3/3/3/5/5=40/20 on sireth, in Acrobat with Staff Mastery *
1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/3/3/3/3/3/3/5/5=40/20 on esos, in kensai with Keen Edge (and centered) *

*both having improved critical, overwhelming critical and in Master earth stance, but not in dreadbought

[Choopak]

Well, it's what the point of the build is. Whether or not it succeeds in this, I'm curious to find out.
I was just defending the choice of bladeforged against old non-bladeforged selfhealing builds, but of course there will be other bladeforged contenders in this department. Centered-ESoS 12fighter/paladin/monks as obvious contender, and others as well... but don't underestimate a Sireth with upgraded attack speed.

One thing I did not take into account, does the bladesworn transformation not prevent the reconstruct SLA?

-Rull

Bladeforged is the new super race! Not saying your build could not shine (in fact i believe he is very viable) but, like you, i'm always trying to do better.
And yes 12/6/2, centered ESoS... ouch!!!! not overely familiar with Sireth... so could be a wash with ESoS.

No, reconstruct SLA can be use while in bladesworn transformation (even madstoned!, but not with barbarian's rage)
So more points for the bladeforged (with a 6 sec cooldown, and 6 level pally, you can go around fully transformed, buff with divine might, smiting like crazy AND heal yourself, mouhahaha)

Good job on build, like that you're trying something new

[Choopak]

Hm, let's calculate the tier3. Every 90 seconds you do 1 attack with +2 range & +2multiplier.
Say you base hit for 81. Since we are considering smites it hits for 19 more, and let's assume 20 seeker Your regular crit profile with sireth is 13-18x3, 19-20x5.
So on 1-10 nothing happens, on a 11-12 this adds 500dmg, on 13-18 it adds 240 and on 19-20 also 240.
0-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-360-360-360-360-360-360-600-600
turns into
0-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-100-600-600-600-600-600-600-600-600-840-840

This adds up to 146 mor dmg average, compared to a regular smite.
Now you can use this once every 90 seconds (the starting number of smites is almost neglible), so 1.6 dph (fortification reduces).
I'd say not worth 6 AP in this AP-starved build. If I somehow had AP to spare I'd rather add 6 more in the assassin tree.

(note that tier3 is exponentially better than tier1 or 2, so taking just them is not going to help)

However, it is close enough; had it been 3 AP instead of 6 it would have been a good investment. So I thank you for suggesting it, I hadn't looked at it at all

I think you are misinformed on the smite evil ability: you don't use your smite every 90 sec, you use it as many times, in a row, as you have smite available. They REGENERATE at a rate of 1 every 90 sec.
So let's assume 10 smites evil (with high CHA, enhancements) this would mean you'll be able to smite every 9 sec, forever!!!
I'll take an ability that allows me to add 2 to my threat range and multiplier (Hello ESoS!!!!) with a 9 sec "cooldown" everyday...

[Kingault]

Can you use the Haste Action Boost at the same time as Power of the Forge?
The only concern I have is about DR, so, uh, are there any DRs this build won't be able to take out>

[Choopak]

Can you use the Haste Action Boost at the same time as Power of the Forge?
The only concern I have is about DR, so, uh, are there any DRs this build won't be able to take out>

No you can have both boost active at the same time, it's a human feature only... but you can always have a boost up since you'll have about 8-9 of each (plus power surge from kensai)

[Rull]

I think you are misinformed on the smite evil ability: you don't use your smite every 90 sec, you use it as many times, in a row, as you have smite available. They REGENERATE at a rate of 1 every 90 sec.
So let's assume 10 smites evil (with high CHA, enhancements) this would mean you'll be able to smite every 9 sec, forever!!!
I'll take an ability that allows me to add 2 to my threat range and multiplier (Hello ESoS!!!!) with a 9 sec "cooldown" everyday...

As far as I can tell, the nunber of smites does not increase with charisma but paladin level. At 4, you'll still only have 1 smite. you can spend even more AP to get 3 more, but even 4 initial smites won't make it worth it.

[Rull]

Can you use the Haste Action Boost at the same time as Power of the Forge?
The only concern I have is about DR, so, uh, are there any DRs this build won't be able to take out>

They can be active at the same time. They even don't influence eachothers attack chain interruption, meaning that after using either you'll be standing still for 1 second, but if you use both at the same time, you'll also be standing still for just 1 second.

- Sireth come out of the box as Good so that covers most thrash.
- You always attach it to your wf body making it adamantine+good
- It's both slashing and piercing, so that breaks slightly more than just slashing would
- And the great thing is you can switch to another quarterstaff to get bludgeoning without having to use a weapon that you didn't build for. A good old triple positive quarterstaff for the liches and skeletons.
- With some investment, you could make a second sireth slotted with silver for good+silver to swap to. I'm not sure yet if you'll be slotting Reconstruction spellpower or 2d6 damage in the primary sireth, but losing either can be overcome (ring of master artifice or randomgen recon 108 helmet)

[Choopak]

As far as I can tell, the nunber of smites does not increase with charisma but paladin level. At 4, you'll still only have 1 smite. you can spend even more AP to get 3 more, but even 4 initial smites won't make it worth it.

My bad, you're right, CHA does not increase the number of smites (just the damage)

[Kingault]

They can be active at the same time. They even don't influence eachothers attack chain interruption, meaning that after using either you'll be standing still for 1 second, but if you use both at the same time, you'll also be standing still for just 1 second.

- Sireth come out of the box as Good so that covers most thrash.
- You always attach it to your wf body making it adamantine+good
- It's both slashing and piercing, so that breaks slightly more than just slashing would
- And the great thing is you can switch to another quarterstaff to get bludgeoning without having to use a weapon that you didn't build for. A good old triple positive quarterstaff for the liches and skeletons.
- With some investment, you could make a second sireth slotted with silver for good+silver to swap to. I'm not sure yet if you'll be slotting Reconstruction spellpower or 2d6 damage in the primary sireth, but losing either can be overcome (ring of master artifice or randomgen recon 108 helmet)

Thanks.

[redspecter23]

They can be active at the same time. They even don't influence eachothers attack chain interruption, meaning that after using either you'll be standing still for 1 second, but if you use both at the same time, you'll also be standing still for just 1 second.

You can interrupt that one second pause with many combat feats such as cleave, great cleave, trip, sunder, stunning fist and many more. My typical sequence is to hit Power of the Forge, then Haste Boost almost simultaneously, then hit a combat feat which immediately triggers, removing the one second penalty.