Non-monk thrower - toss me (haha) ideas

[voodoogroves]

Buddy of mine (somewhat casual) has just TR'd for the first time (two characters). I'm committed to pairing one of my second string characters to each of his and level up with them. He's going caster for one, so I figure on that one I'm going to play something silly.

Teh_troll mentioned a CON based thrower, and while that is amusing as heck it's totally impractical as there are essentially no freaking items to support it. I may as well use a Great Crossbow.

But, thrower. Non-monk thrower.

I'm thinking some sort of arti mix, possibly w/ ranger/rogue in there too.


Shoot me (haha, again, I crack myself up) some ideas. I'm sure I'd carry other weapons for when the thrower is so horribly bad of a choice.

[Krelar]

Teh_troll mentioned a CON based thrower, and while that is amusing as heck it's totally impractical as there are essentially no freaking items to support it. I may as well use a Great Crossbow.

The dwarf enhancement "throw your wait around" applies to throwing axes (or hammers) so no special items needed.

[voodoogroves]

The dwarf enhancement "throw your wait around" applies to throwing axes (or hammers) so no special items needed.

Yes, I'm aware of that. What I'm saying is that while CON is funny, it's impractical to the point of silly. Dwarven Thrower or crafted items ... nothing really to support it.

I could make a normal thrower work though, and was asking for ideas down that route.

[unbongwah]

Has halfling Master Thrower been fixed yet? That seems like the only way to make a decent (non-monk shuriken) thrower build...well, "less bad," anyway. Thinking something focused on ranged SAs, possibly w/DWS mixed in for Sniper Shot etc.

We also kicked around some ideas in this thread. I posted a S&B dwarven thrower w/Dwarf Fortress for +7% dmg; however I haven't tested to see if that works with throwing axes.

[voodoogroves]

Has halfling Master Thrower been fixed yet? That seems like the only way to make a decent (non-monk shuriken) thrower build...well, "less bad," anyway. Thinking something focused on ranged SAs, possibly w/DWS mixed in for Sniper Shot etc.

We also kicked around some ideas in this thread. I posted a S&B dwarven thrower w/Dwarf Fortress for +7% dmg; however I haven't tested to see if that works with throwing axes.

No idea on halfling. That would be ideal, I think. Then you'd either brutal-throw or toss an alternate stat like INT on the damage (arti6, which would also give rune arm imbues).

It'd be nice if doublestrike on items also granted doublestrike to throwers.

[voodoogroves]

Ah just saw DEX to damage in the halfling tree. That's something at least. Mechanic has INT on thrown. Pretty sure I'd want some DWS for some of the single shots and probably heavy draw.

Hm. Maybe Rogue 12 (13 ideal) + some ranger and arti.

Sadly, you're still probably better off taking Shuriken Expertise and tossing those.

[falconwp]

Sadly, Master Thrower still seems to be broken - just put a point in to it to try it, and I was still only threatening crits on a natural 20 with my throwing axe. Very much hoping that it is fixed soon.

I've been playing a Halfling Ranger/Rogue focused on throwing weapons with two of my friends, currently at level 7. It's certainly not optimal, but I've enjoyed it quite a bit. And as long as I can sneak attack, I at least hit hard, just not as often as I would if I was using a repeating crossbow or TWF. For even more suboptimalness, I'm the healer in the group (running with a barbarian/fighter and a druid) - Mark of Healing and a number of Deepwood Sniper points for lots of Positive Energy spellpower. It may not be the smartest build, but it's been a blast for me.

[Xianio]

If you're not going shuriken your best bet (named item wise) are darts. You can get one that has a 18-20x3 crit range without keen. (Nightstar or something like that)

[Arianka]

found this one. dont know if its any good or not. it is old and shoud be updated with new loot and levels and feats and stuff.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=throwy

[Firewall]

If you insist on making a non-shuriken build my best guess would be a DEX based halfling 13rogue/5ranger/2artificer with as much sneak attack damage you can get, extended sneak attack range (DWS, Mechanic) and special attacks from DWS, the glass-cannon rune arm in the offhand and a radiance II greensteel throwing weapon in the main hand. Use the Enchant Weapon spell to boost your attack and damage a bit. In Addition craft a Triple positive GS throwing weapon for undead and get some spelltouched throwers from eveningstar challenge rewards from level 16 on. Don't forget to add a quiver of poison as soon as it is available and use a frozen tunic from level 4 on.

For leveling use the Tira's Splendour Rune arm which you can craft to be used at 2 levels lower than usual with masterful craftsmanship. Hand of the Tombs is a nice one too. Don't forget to take the Haste Boost from Thief Acrobat since your attack speed will be quite low. Assassin will get you even more sneak attack damage and venomed blades. Max DEX and get as much armor piercing as you can (Precision feat, Opportunist rogue feat, Black Dragonscale GH armors,...). If you have a feat to spare i would also take shuriken expertise for the occasions when a named shuriken is the best choice.

Since you will not be top notch DPS you can always pull your weight in PUGs with disabling traps and opening locks but your sneak attack damage will be quite impressive. I played a similar build pre-U19 and it can be fun but i still used shuriken then since the attack speed of other throwers which do not benefit from shuriken expertise is REALLY slow. Boost your Doubleshot as high as you can!

[voodoogroves]

If you insist on making a non-shuriken build my best guess would be a DEX based halfling 13rogue/5ranger/2artificer with as much sneak attack damage you can get, extended sneak attack range (DWS, Mechanic) and special attacks from DWS, the glass-cannon rune arm in the offhand and a radiance II greensteel throwing weapon in the main hand. Use the Enchant Weapon spell to boost your attack and damage a bit. In Addition craft a Triple positive GS throwing weapon for undead and get some spelltouched throwers from eveningstar challenge rewards from level 16 on. Don't forget to add a quiver of poison as soon as it is available and use a frozen tunic from level 4 on.

I said non-monk, not non-shuriken. I'm good with going gimp, but I don't think I can go so gimp as to avoid Shuriken Expertise ;-)

Build-wise, this is what i'm staring at as well - taking the DWS T5. Tempted to go less rogue, more arti for haste boost.

For leveling use the Tira's Splendour Rune arm which you can craft to be used at 2 levels lower than usual with masterful craftsmanship. Hand of the Tombs is a nice one too. Don't forget to take the Haste Boost from Thief Acrobat since your attack speed will be quite low. Assassin will get you even more sneak attack damage and venomed blades. Max DEX and get as much armor piercing as you can (Precision feat, Opportunist rogue feat, Black Dragonscale GH armors,...). If you have a feat to spare i would also take shuriken expertise for the occasions when a named shuriken is the best choice.

Yep, got all that covered. BTW, rune-arm min-level adjustment still seems wonky to me. Sometimes it takes, sometimes the ML isn't reduced. Dunno what you've seen recently.
Since you will not be top notch DPS you can always pull your weight in PUGs with disabling traps and opening locks but your sneak attack damage will be quite impressive. I played a similar build pre-U19 and it can be fun but i still used shuriken then since the attack speed of other throwers which do not benefit from shuriken expertise is REALLY slow. Boost your Doubleshot as high as you can![/QUOTE]

Yeah, I am ok playing a gimp to some degree - but too much gimp and I can't manage. We'll see how long I can suffer through.

[Firewall]

Tempted to go less rogue, more arti for haste boost.

If you go less rogue you risk loosing 3d6 Sneak Attack damage from the Epic Feat "Improved Sneak Attack" which requires 12 levels of rogue as well as the second rogue Special Ability feat and at least 1d6 more sneak attack die from rogue levels. Also you can get the Haste Boost from Thief Acrobat already. At Level 27 you can take the Blinding Speed Feat for permanent haste so the Haste Armor spell from the Arti is not needed.

Not sure if you can get all the enhancements but this build would have the potential of:

3d6 SA Halfling
7d6 SA rogue levels
2d6 SA DWS core
4d6 SA Assassin
3d6 SA Improved SA epic feat

That is 19d6 Sneak attack damage without items (if i didn't forget anything) so an average of 66,5 points of SA damage per throw plus an increased SA range! Add a spelltouched thrower to this and some shiradi procs and that is quite some amount of damage. Add to that 2d8 bludgeoning and 2d10 fire damage from the runearm, Venomed Blades and DEX to damage from the halfling in addition to all the other stuff you can get from items and you have a good package.
Attack speed is the only issue but with Whirling Wrists, Blinding Speed and Haste Boost (and maybe shuriken expertise) you should be not too bad.

[voodoogroves]

If you go less rogue you risk loosing 3d6 Sneak Attack damage from the Epic Feat "Improved Sneak Attack" which requires 12 levels of rogue as well as the second rogue Special Ability feat and at least 1d6 more sneak attack die from rogue levels. Also you can get the Haste Boost from Thief Acrobat already. At Level 27 you can take the Blinding Speed Feat for permanent haste so the Haste Armor spell from the Arti is not needed.

Not sure if you can get all the enhancements but this build would have the potential of:

3d6 SA Halfling
7d6 SA rogue levels
2d6 SA DWS core
4d6 SA Assassin
3d6 SA Improved SA epic feat

That is 19d6 Sneak attack damage without items (if i didn't forget anything) so an average of 66,5 points of SA damage per throw plus an increased SA range! Add a spelltouched thrower to this and some shiradi procs and that is quite some amount of damage. Add to that 2d8 bludgeoning and 2d10 fire damage from the runearm, Venomed Blades and DEX to damage from the halfling in addition to all the other stuff you can get from items and you have a good package.
Attack speed is the only issue but with Whirling Wrists, Blinding Speed and Haste Boost (and maybe shuriken expertise) you should be not too bad.

Yeah, I can't make other splits work either. I need to lay out the AP - I don't think I'll have enough spare to get all the Assassin ones, for instance.

I'm close to pulling the trigger on this monstrosity.

Now to decide - DWS to T5 (heavy draw, head shot, other shots), or Mechanic (permanenet double shot)

[Deathdefy]

My 2c is to tweak 13 Rogue / 5 Ranger / 2 Artificer to 12 Rogue / 6 Ranger / 2 Artificer, since "Called Shot" is the pick of the entire DWS tree in my opinion. You lose 1d6 SA and either Opportunist or Improved Evasion (My theory build boots IE after picking up Epic Reflexes at 27), but it's good.

Epic feats choice between ISA, OC:Thrown, Combat Archery (which I can't swear works on Thrown, but I think it does), and Epic Reflexes/Blinding Speed, etc. Also can affect heroic choices and level split. E.g. if you're not taking ISA, go 3 Artificer for Elemental Weapons, 11 Rogue.

I'm unsure whether you're intent on playing this into epics, but ED choice affects a lot too (mostly level-ups).

Fury is the obvious choice, but Shiradi and even ShadowDancer are options (particularly if you go heavily Dex based; Executioner's Shot is pretty terrible due to the cooldown and 30% proc rate, but it's the only ED for a thrower with an insta-kill).

I found I had an abundance of feats when planning a thrower out too. So much so that I seriously considered taking PA/Cleave/GC and OC: Thrown (... with the 23 STR req making racial choice a more interesting consideration in that halfling becomes more questionable; Elf to me is up there for the bonus 10 SA Range and +2 Dex from the Racial Line).

Anyway that's the list of things I found myself thinking about for a potential thrower build; I think it's hard to go too far wrong (within the realms of what may not be the most optimal style of character anyway).

[voodoogroves]

My 2c is to tweak 13 Rogue / 5 Ranger / 2 Artificer to 12 Rogue / 6 Ranger / 2 Artificer, since "Called Shot" is the pick of the entire DWS tree in my opinion. You lose 1d6 SA and either Opportunist or Improved Evasion (My theory build boots IE after picking up Epic Reflexes at 27), but it's good.

Epic feats choice between ISA, OC:Thrown, Combat Archery (which I can't swear works on Thrown, but I think it does), and Epic Reflexes/Blinding Speed, etc. Also can affect heroic choices and level split. E.g. if you're not taking ISA, go 3 Artificer for Elemental Weapons, 11 Rogue.

I'm unsure whether you're intent on playing this into epics, but ED choice affects a lot too (mostly level-ups).

Fury is the obvious choice, but Shiradi and even ShadowDancer are options (particularly if you go heavily Dex based; Executioner's Shot is pretty terrible due to the cooldown and 30% proc rate, but it's the only ED for a thrower with an insta-kill).

I found I had an abundance of feats when planning a thrower out too. So much so that I seriously considered taking PA/Cleave/GC and OC: Thrown (... with the 23 STR req making racial choice a more interesting consideration in that halfling becomes more questionable; Elf to me is up there for the bonus 10 SA Range and +2 Dex from the Racial Line).

Anyway that's the list of things I found myself thinking about for a potential thrower build; I think it's hard to go too far wrong (within the realms of what may not be the most optimal style of character anyway).

The racial choice may come down to whether or not the halfling crit expansion works. Anyone confirm if it does or doesn;t?

[maddmatt70]

Monk Shuriken thrower is actually a viable build. I am kind of amazed that it is true, but it is true. Are you that committed to building a gimp build when you actually can make a successful build that is a thrower?

[voodoogroves]

Monk Shuriken thrower is actually a viable build. I am kind of amazed that it is true, but it is true. Are you that committed to building a gimp build when you actually can make a successful build that is a thrower?

As a clear 2nd string non-main character, I'm ok with a level of gimpness. I have no doubt I can run a heroic elite streak with it.

[Firewall]

The racial choice may come down to whether or not the halfling crit expansion works. Anyone confirm if it does or doesn;t?

Halfling crit expansion does not work. Neither does the one from the ninja spy capstone so far.

A different possible build that comes to mind is a Kensai splashed with a combination from ranger, rogue and/or artificer. I haven't done much planning in that direction recently just some brainstorming. Not sure if this would work out.

[voodoogroves]

Halfling crit expansion does not work. Neither does the one from the ninja spy capstone so far.

A different possible build that comes to mind is a Kensai splashed with a combination from ranger, rogue and/or artificer. I haven't done much planning in that direction recently just some brainstorming. Not sure if this would work out.

It may add a ton of STR to damage and some crit stuff, but it doesn't help w/ damage adds or rate of fire - there probably isn't a ton of value in lots of [w] adders on a 1d3 ;-). The monks are getting super RoF; the monk20 like yours is (eventually) going to get bonus crit -and- vorpal, the arti-rogue dips are adding a ton of additional damage and the DWS are doing the big single strikes (500, etc.) that have big damage or other effects that are less [w] dependent.

[CrackedIce]

I would like to point out that since slaying arrows and the other active abilities from AA tree work with throwing weapons, when halfling master thrower gets fixed one would be able to use the nightforged dart with a 13 - 20 X3 crit range and with slayers should be pretty brutal in heroics.

I am not sure how to make such a build viable in epc levels though.